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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Mar 2013 : 14:37:41
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It seems highly unlikely to me that any god would aid a mortal who was trying to destroy the universe if said god thought that there was the remotest chance of the mortal succeeding.
The whole plot of this grand spell is ridiculous. I could understand a spell to change nearby lands or replace a god but remake the universe? C'mon, that's far too big a goal.
We already have one Ao and that's quite enough thank you. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2013 : 15:08:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
It seems highly unlikely to me that any god would aid a mortal who was trying to destroy the universe if said god thought that there was the remotest chance of the mortal succeeding.
The whole plot of this grand spell is ridiculous. I could understand a spell to change nearby lands or replace a god but remake the universe? C'mon, that's far too big a goal. We already have one Ao and that's quite enough thank you.
Just out of curiosity . . . did you read the books? If not, then I suggest you do. It’s easy to make hasty generalizations on what Szass Tam did (and is doing still). But when you read the novels, you get to see the whole context. Such grandiose ambition didn’t just sprout out of nowhere.
And no, everyone (Bane included) does not believe that the Ritual of Unmaking would serve its original purpose. Only Szass Tam believes that it would, and he has reason to. Nevertheless, the effects can still be catastrophic. It may wipe out Thay and the whole eastern realms or split Faerun into two continents or send Maztica to the bottom of the seas, the Nine Helss, or the Abyss. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2013 : 15:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
What is larloch doing in all of this... As I remember Larloch is the only this that Szazz Tam fear... And for a good reason! Or Ioulaum, he would be able to give Szass a run for him money too!
Larloch apparently has some sort of grand scheme going on. Either to bring himself back, or otherwise.
We do have something that indicates that... From Ed, courtesy of the lovely Lady Hooded One...
quote:
To Wooly Rupert: when you post sentences like this one: “And though I can't think of any evidence to support it, it's not impossible that part of what Larloch is doing is containing something...” be aware that you are (ahem) VERY perceptive.
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2013 : 18:54:10
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Yes Dennis I have read the books. And out of respect for RLB and your own very evident liking of his work, I won't pick holes in them.
Let's just say that having read the Tam trilogy, I haven't bought another RLB book. |
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Delnyn
Master of Realmslore
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2022 : 23:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
What is larloch doing in all of this... As I remember Larloch is the only this that Szazz Tam fear... And for a good reason! Or Ioulaum, he would be able to give Szass a run for him money too!
How fitting to use thread necromancy on a Szass Tam scroll. Here is my speculation:
Larloch is laughing his skull off at Szass Tam's efforts to enact the Dread Ring ritual. Either Szass Tam will fail...or if he is about to succeed, Larloch would simply swoop in a hijack the ritual for his own benefit. Those who doubt Larloch could or would hijack a ritual are encouraged to read The Herald.
I would say Szass Tam made a fool's bargain with Larloch when he traded the vest for Larloch's Death Moon Orb and Tharkorsil's Seat. I think we can all agree Szass Tam did NOT negotiate from the dominant position. It would be most likely Larloch hacked all passcodes to Tam's wards and got an extended tour of Tam's halls through the two (magically tweaked) artifacts he left with Tam.
Larloch would know all of Tam's servants, their duties, their schedules, who is loyal, who is not. I would not be surprised if Larloch would cut a deal with Eltab (Tharkorsil's Seat probably has a whole mess of Larloch=designed "malware") for the latter's help in putting the screws to Tam...if Tam moved a hairsbreath out of acceptable lines. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2022 : 23:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
What is larloch doing in all of this... As I remember Larloch is the only this that Szazz Tam fear... And for a good reason! Or Ioulaum, he would be able to give Szass a run for him money too!
How fitting to use thread necromancy on a Szass Tam scroll. Here is my speculation:
Larloch is laughing his skull off at Szass Tam's efforts to enact the Dread Ring ritual. Either Szass Tam will fail...or if he is about to succeed, Larloch would simply swoop in a hijack the ritual for his own benefit. Those who doubt Larloch could or would hijack a ritual are encouraged to read The Herald.
I would say Szass Tam made a fool's bargain with Larloch when he traded the vest for Larloch's Death Moon Orb and Tharkorsil's Seat. I think we can all agree Szass Tam did NOT negotiate from the dominant position. It would be most likely Larloch hacked all passcodes to Tam's wards and got an extended tour of Tam's halls through the two (magically tweaked) artifacts he left with Tam.
Larloch would know all of Tam's servants, their duties, their schedules, who is loyal, who is not. I would not be surprised if Larloch would cut a deal with Eltab (Tharkorsil's Seat probably has a whole mess of Larloch=designed "malware") for the latter's help in putting the screws to Tam...if Tam moved a hairsbreath out of acceptable lines.
Larloch gave Tam a cursed artifact that deliberately changes them to perform greater and greater acts of evil.... and he took it. So, yeah, I'd say Larloch was on the winning side of the deal.
Throw into all that that while Tam was becoming a more powerful Zulkir of Necromancy... his literal enemy ascended to become the god of necromancy. How might that have affected his psyche? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 19:11:39
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Hey folks,
Just coming here for the first time.
1. I'm assuming that Szass Tam thinks that he's got the gods by the balls in all of this but is completely wrong about the ritual. I think it makes perfect sense that he believes he can create a ritual that will allow him to kill the gods and unmakle the cosmos but my inclination is that he's 100% wrong and Bane knows this. Karsus had the same sort of belief and we saw how that sort of literal dictionary definition of hubris will do things.
2. That doesn't make the ritual any less dangerous mind you as mass murder to empower someone is something that I'm sure bane plans to benefit from. But yes, with the Shadow Weave destroyed and no longer in the hands of an insane nihilist goddess, I'm pretty sure that she could just cut the feed to Szass Tam at any time they want.
3. VECNA could pull off "unmaking the universe" but we know that he is/was a Greater God and had the help of the Serpent who, in my campaigns, was either Asmodeus or Orcus and are ancient evils of immense power and knowledge. Tam is just not in Vecna's league.
4. Velsharoon getting to be God of Necromancy always felt like he was a disappointment to Talos as he's not worshiped in Thay or by the largest numbers of necromancers in the world. He has to be suffering from severe lack of worship and I wonder if he's going to become a Dead God. Still, I'm very much of the "Helm splatters Mystra despite her being a 30th level mage" school of thought, Velsharoon is a god and even a Demigod utterly would own the strongest of all mortals.
5. Speaking of which, I admit I kind of have debated the idea Xvim, Velsharoon, and Cyric are all impersonating the Dead Three versus them getting resurrected.
6. Which is to say, Szass Tam got the worst of every deal with Bane, Larloch, and Velsharoon. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Delnyn
Master of Realmslore
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2022 : 14:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Larloch gave Tam a cursed artifact that deliberately changes them to perform greater and greater acts of evil.... and he took it. So, yeah, I'd say Larloch was on the winning side of the deal.
Throw into all that that while Tam was becoming a more powerful Zulkir of Necromancy... his literal enemy ascended to become the god of necromancy. How might that have affected his psyche?
Tam must have gone full-out bat-guano crazy at the Halaster level. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2022 : 01:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Hey folks,
Just coming here for the first time.
1. I'm assuming that Szass Tam thinks that he's got the gods by the balls in all of this but is completely wrong about the ritual. I think it makes perfect sense that he believes he can create a ritual that will allow him to kill the gods and unmakle the cosmos but my inclination is that he's 100% wrong and Bane knows this. Karsus had the same sort of belief and we saw how that sort of literal dictionary definition of hubris will do things.
2. That doesn't make the ritual any less dangerous mind you as mass murder to empower someone is something that I'm sure bane plans to benefit from. But yes, with the Shadow Weave destroyed and no longer in the hands of an insane nihilist goddess, I'm pretty sure that she could just cut the feed to Szass Tam at any time they want.
3. VECNA could pull off "unmaking the universe" but we know that he is/was a Greater God and had the help of the Serpent who, in my campaigns, was either Asmodeus or Orcus and are ancient evils of immense power and knowledge. Tam is just not in Vecna's league.
4. Velsharoon getting to be God of Necromancy always felt like he was a disappointment to Talos as he's not worshiped in Thay or by the largest numbers of necromancers in the world. He has to be suffering from severe lack of worship and I wonder if he's going to become a Dead God. Still, I'm very much of the "Helm splatters Mystra despite her being a 30th level mage" school of thought, Velsharoon is a god and even a Demigod utterly would own the strongest of all mortals.
5. Speaking of which, I admit I kind of have debated the idea Xvim, Velsharoon, and Cyric are all impersonating the Dead Three versus them getting resurrected.
6. Which is to say, Szass Tam got the worst of every deal with Bane, Larloch, and Velsharoon.
The take I was going with was that Tam was tricked into performing a ritual by the Tome of Fastrin the Delver. The ritual released a lot of magical energy from a source in Thaymount that intersected with the ley lines of the dread rings. This magical release was absorbed by a weak mystra and began fueling her return. This setup was instigated by Larloch in coordination with Leira (who was the Tome of Fastrin the Delver... and the whole story of a kingdom in the sunrise mountains that Fastrin ruled was one big lie). All of this was foreseen to a degree by Savras, who conveyed that certain things needed to happen to keep magic in the world, such that Larloch agreed to trade with Tam... Leira agreed to fake her own death... Talos agreed to raise up Velsharoon and Malyk as magic deities knowing they'd play multiple sides. I find it fun to picture that numerous evil deities had a hand in basically helping Mystra return AND stop Shar from rising up by actually being involved in the events that lead to the spellplague and second sundering..... and that it wasn't all just a meandering plotline, but actually a plot that mortals can't comprehend the immense complexity of. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Szass Tam's arrangment with Bane
