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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 04:54:48
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I'm bringing this up here, because it's one of the sections of Candlekeep that receives the most attention.
Earlier, scribe Brimstone brought up a point that I want to briefly discuss here:-
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Yes, keep on insulting the Authors, and Designers that are working on and in the Forgotten Realms.
I'm inclined to agree.
I've grown particularly weary of this increasingly apparent facet of Realms chatter here at Candlekeep. Constructive criticism is fine. And is in line with the established Code of Conduct for the site. But I'm starting to realise that perhaps we Mods have been a little too lax in our efforts to counteract some of the more disturbing trends that seem to make a mockery of the concept of positive and/or negative constructive criticism.
As such, I'm declaring that outright insulting for no other reason than to express one's distaste over the 4e Realms will no longer be tolerated.
We each have our opinions on the 4e Realms. And we each feel the need to express those opinions. That's great. Because that's what Candlekeep is all about. But, at the same time, it should be noted that expressing opinions about an official designer's work and/or efforts with the 4e Realms should receive just as much respect and care as do the opinions made about the works of designers from previous editions of the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign.
I've no problem with scribes discussing why they may dislike a particular element of the post-Spellplague Realms. But it's becoming increasingly clear that there are those among us here who take that as an opportunity to add nothing to the discussion at hand and only rally against the concept of the 4e Realms.
This ends now!
For this point on, if a scribe wishes to express dislike over something about the 4e Realms, you must also make an effort to respect the opinions of others who may hold opinions counter to your own, and also respect the work of the individual/s and/or products you're referring to. Inane negative commentary that directly insults others -- whether they be fellow scribes or official FR designers -- and adds no new or constructive elements to a discussion, will receive heavy scrutiny each and every time, and discussed privately with the offending scribe.
I make this declaration because I'm concerned about the state of the community here at Candlekeep. And because I'm worried that some of our more dedicated scribes are feeling less inclined to visit and participate here. But, more importantly, I'm troubled over the possibility that some of our most cherished members, the FR designers and authors themselves, will slowly withdraw their presence as Candlekeep continues to collapse under weight of the problems its currently experiencing in terms of opinions and debate over the 4e Realms.
In closing, I'm noting here and now that NO scribe will be exempt from this declaration. That includes both myself and Wooly. If any scribe still feels that there are problems with this state of events, or even with this very declaration, I'm open to discussion and debate. Or if you prefer, please contact Alaundo himself and address your concerns with him directly.
I thank you all for listening, and I appreciate that you will all play your part to ensure Candlekeep remains the open and friendly place for Realms chatter that we've all come to love.
-- The Sage
[Note: I'm leaving this scroll open for the time being, in an effort to encourage both worthwhile discussion and debate on this declaration. Any and all comments that pertain to this, are welcome]
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 05:03:21
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Hells,
If you look back in the Site Content scroll, I basically asked this a year ago. It hadn't really happened, which is why my replies have fallen off over the last year. Yes, I had said some things a year ago but since then, I've kept my thoughts to instant messengers or to those who asked me privately.
I, for one, think it's about time. I'm tired of the hostility here.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 10 Aug 2009 05:52:08 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 05:45:38
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Thank you Sage.
Now lets talk about the Forgotten Realms! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 15:31:46
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Congratulations, Sage, and well done.
Now, about Realmslore...  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 15:25:26
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That’s reasonable.
When I started reading the thread from Old Man Harpell some days ago where he asked, what people liked about the 4e realms setting, I suddenly felt that this was what I had been missing here a bit.
I am currently starting to read 4e material. In terms of rules it looks just fine to me. I am still very unpleased with the nuking out of the old realms and their tremendous lore (what a brutal waste  ), but Wizards is not going to turn back time.
In the end, the value and long-term future of this forum will certainly depend on if 4e will be discussed here in a more neutral manner along with the other editions and thus being a forum for all realms fans, not just pre-4e. Otherwise it will probably slowly turn into a site without D&D designers, likely fewer authors and fewer and more specific users.
Again: this is not against the old realms, it is just that I would love to see CK.com as the one site that answers my questions on ALL editions, be it 2e (which at this time I personally like best) or 3e or 4e in the same friendly way.
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 04:42:48
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| +1 on your comments Sage. Not sure if I count as a dedicated scribe, but I for one have drifted from here recently. Good call and hopefully your addressing these concerns changes some things. Let's do things right and keep this little society of dedicated fans attracting FR authors and designers to these halls. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 23:27:13
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Well said, Sage. I agree wholeheartedly.
I would only add that, when appropriate, I would like to see scribes tagging their thread subject lines with 2e, 3e, 4e, or an appropriate DR date.
By "when appropriate" I mean that when a scribe wishes to discuss a question relating to a particular edition, but which concerns a subject that spans all editions, it might be useful to specify. For example, if I want to discuss the fate of the Moonblades after the Spellplague, I might title my thread: "4e Moonblades".
Cheers, |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 12 Aug 2009 23:40:53 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 01:06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
Well said, Sage. I agree wholeheartedly.
I would only add that, when appropriate, I would like to see scribes tagging their thread subject lines with 2e, 3e, 4e, or an appropriate DR date.
By "when appropriate" I mean that when a scribe wishes to discuss a question relating to a particular edition, but which concerns a subject that spans all editions, it might be useful to specify. For example, if I want to discuss the fate of the Moonblades after the Spellplague, I might title my thread: "4e Moonblades".
I agree on all counts.  I'll freely admit to being one of the Keep's more vocal critics of the 4e Realms, and I've said my piece on the matter. For better or for worse, the 4e Realms are here to stay, at least until 5e, and I've decided my energies are better spent on finding ways to make use and/or sense of what we've been given. I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to any and all scribes I may have offended with past comments, and I will be making a great effort to ensure that any and all further criticism is constructive in nature. I expect the moderators to hold me to that promise, and as a special gift to those who, like me, are not happy with either the Spellplague or the time jump, I am working on an alternate timeline that avoids the latter and mitigates the former, while adhering as closely as possible to pre-Spellplague canon (as described in the final entries of the GHotR).
I hope that others who feel as I do will heed the Sage's words and take similar action as necessary. Call it a "GenCon gift" to Ed in thanks for sharing his creation with us. 
That's about all I have to say here. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 00:16:27
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Obviously ... having a bit of "free speech" with regards to the feelings about what 4E did to the Realms should be tolerated. That this does not necessarily extend to slaughtering the authors or designers should be pretty clear too. The authors and old hands of FR lore (IMHO) apparently drew the shortest straw of all and will surely work their socks off to make the NEw Realms as great as the Old were. Nonetheless, hadn't there been an outcry by a sizeable minority of discontent, there probably wouldn't have been such radical changes. Hadn't there been people in charge who apparently didn't gather the opinion of the whole FR fanbase or were not interested in the Realms in the first place, the dramatic changes would probably not happened either. Voicing our discontent should tell those who were willing to listen to the discontent earlier that they did not and will not get a thumbs-up for wrecking the setting. This is not about making Candlekeep an anti-WotC or -4E hateboard. It's more like not being too harsh to those who saw 20odd years of beloved Realmslore being turned upside down for the sake of an edition that did not need the revamp of the setting. Try doing that over at the WizBoards and your thread will be chopped in no-time.
So while I agree to the initiative and keeping a lit on the discontent's comments, let's keep it on a fair playing field as well. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 00:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
So while I agree to the initiative and keeping a lit on the discontent's comments, let's keep it on a fair playing field as well.
As I noted above, any and all constructive discussion about the 4e Realms still has a place here at Candlekeep. My declaration above is simply a guideline to help scribes remember to focus specifically on what they're discussing, instead of falling into the trend of slighting FR designers/authors and their works. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 02:05:26
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First: Sage, thank you for this scroll. Finally someone, somewhere has taken a stand for the Forgotten Realms and the people who work on it.
I would like to propose that Candlekeep use its influence and connections with Forgotten Realms game designers and authors to collect, record and post on a locked scroll information about the run up to and the history of the creation of the 4E Realms.
Much as the scroll on the Realms cosmology helped to cool off arguments about the Great Tree vs. the Great Wheel, a scroll on the 4E Realms creation might serve the same purpose. I'm sure it won't erase people's feeling or make them feel less inclined to share their opinions, but I do think an impartial scroll would establish facts that meaningful conversation could be anchored around.
If someone doesn't set the record straight, members of the WotC Forums and the Candlekeep Forums will end up writing their own history, regardless of the actual facts and that assumption-based history will be accepted as true and repeated again and again.
This has been happening for quite some time and it shows. Take this scroll, for example.
An informed and knowledgeable Realms fan base is far more capable of protecting and preserving the core integrity of the Forgotten Realms than is a fan base who are angry and feel misused. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 02:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
First: Sage, thank you for this scroll. Finally someone, somewhere has taken a stand for the Forgotten Realms and the people who work on it.
I would like to propose that Candlekeep use its influence and connections with Forgotten Realms game designers and authors to collect, record and post on a locked scroll information about the run up to and the history of the creation of the 4E Realms.
Much as the scroll on the Realms cosmology helped to cool off arguments about the Great Tree vs. the Great Wheel, a scroll on the 4E Realms creation might serve the same purpose. I'm sure it won't erase people's feeling or make them feel less inclined to share their opinions, but I do think an impartial scroll would establish facts that meaningful conversation could be anchored around.
<snip>
An informed and knowledgeable Realms fan base is far more capable of protecting and preserving the core integrity of the Forgotten Realms than is a fan base who are angry and feel misused.
This is exactly what we need. Information and Knowledge beget Understanding. I won't comment on the progeny of Assumption here, for it is not the proper place. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 02:51:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
I would like to propose that Candlekeep use its influence and connections with Forgotten Realms game designers and authors to collect, record and post on a locked scroll information about the run up to and the history of the creation of the 4E Realms.
Much as the scroll on the Realms cosmology helped to cool off arguments about the Great Tree vs. the Great Wheel, a scroll on the 4E Realms creation might serve the same purpose. I'm sure it won't erase people's feeling or make them feel less inclined to share their opinions, but I do think an impartial scroll would establish facts that meaningful conversation could be anchored around.
Strangely enough, I had considered attempting something like this. Only I'd be placing it in the revised Candlekeep Code of Conduct that I've been tinkering with over the last year. I've thought about incorporating input from both Ed and Brian James, as well as Bruce Cordell and a number of other 4e designers. Specifically, the CoC entry would focus on the early foundation of the 4e Realms, and its development through the first year of its official publication [Aug. '08 to Aug. 09].
quote:
If someone doesn't set the record straight, members of the WotC Forums and the Candlekeep Forums will end up writing their own history, regardless of the actual facts and that assumption-based history will be accepted as true and repeated again and again.
This has been happening for quite some time and it shows. Take this scroll, for example.
I've had this concern for quite some time. It's simply a growing trend that now seems to permeate many FR boards. Like the old and misguided assumptions some individuals have made about past Realms aspects -- such as the nonsense claims about Elminster being an example of Ed's 'wish-fulfilment.' Regardless of the fact that we've heard Ed's many counter arguments against these claims, there are still those who cling to those incorrect assumptions, and bring them up during most Elminster and/or Ed-related discussions.
quote:
An informed and knowledgeable Realms fan base is far more capable of protecting and preserving the core integrity of the Forgotten Realms than is a fan base who are angry and feel misused.
Agreed. And so long as I'm a Moderator here at Candlekeep, it shall remain as such.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 09:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
First: Sage, thank you for this scroll. Finally someone, somewhere has taken a stand for the Forgotten Realms and the people who work on it.
My cynical self instantly wants to reply that this is exactly why we (me included) lay into the 4E Realms. For we usually do not lay into the designers and authors who have to work on the changed Realms, but the people who came up with the apocalyptic scenarios. Alas, my cynical self is on holiday right now. I have long since given up on commenting on the New Realms, as they are not my Realms.* Have had a look into the FRCG and FRPG and won't look into anything else. Matter of factly, I got myself a great source for AD&D FR books and look forward to build my 3,5E and PF-rule campaigns about those.
* I assume you get the gist of that from the lyrics below ...
Because these green hills are not highland hills,
Or the island hills, they're not my land's hills,
And fair as these green foreign hills may be
They are not the hills of home. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 12:02:27
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| Christopher Perkins, Rob Heinsoo, Phil Athans and Chris Sims are people who could be added to the "contact list" if at all possible. I know these folks don't all of them come to Candlekeep (well, so far as I know) but perhaps Rich Baker could be asked to reach out to them? |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 13:10:05
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Now let me get that straight: First there is a call for a 4E and New Realms ceasefire, now you want to draw the attention of Orcus-man supreme, the chap in charge of all that has happened to the Realms to the very same Candlekeep that was required to change the logo to make it less-Realmsish?
Don't get me wrong here, but that's quite simply the absurdest thing I have read in many a long day. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 14:11:28
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So now not only are we not allowed to be negative about the Shattered Realms, but an official 'history' of what happened is going to be put together? That's kinda disturbing.
By the way, taking a stand for the Forgotten Realms would involve banning discussion of the edition that ripped out it's soul. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 15:01:11
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Well, it seems like I would not be able to take a stand for the Realms then.
There's a difference between talking about/discussing 4ed. and never-ending complaining and turning every thread or subject into a 4ed. bash and derailing of the subject discussed. I have never seen it stated that it is not allowed to be negative or to talk about 4ed.
As for a history, why not? That would clear up a lot of the debates about the reasoning of the 4ed. team. No one is forcing us to agree with them. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 15:07:33
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Agreed, Sage.
Having learned the hard way over the decades that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar, this only makes sense.
I have made no bones about the fact that I don't like the Shattered Realms. But apart from that, there isn't much to criticize, and there is never an excuse to make an attack personal. Just because I am disgusted, for example, at what happened to Eilistraee/Qilue, is no reason to savage the author who did it. I have no idea if it was something she came up with, or if someone told her to do it (and make it 'work' in a story context) - bottom line, I just don't know - and likely never will.
Using the Shattered Realms as an example, it is always more constructive to refrain from saying something like "What were they thinking?", and instead ask "What was the reason they did this?" or "What could they do to make it more like the Realms we all love instead of settling for the Shattered Realms as presented?" - and then try to build a constructive framework around that. Not that I think we will ever see the Realms returned to us safe and whole, but it should be the starting point for any discussion that takes place.
I have to disagree that we are not allowed to be negative about the Shattered Realms...it is the fashion one is negative about them that should be considered. One can be negative and still build a constructive framework around it ('constructive criticism', for lack of a better term). And as I attempted to do, try to find the points that do work for you.
The Sword Coast, for example, is largely unchanged. Stay in that general area, make a few tweaks, and no one need be the wiser, especially if, in a game context, your players are not 'in' on the Sellplague/timejump creativity obstacles. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 15:09:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
So now not only are we not allowed to be negative about the Shattered Realms...
You misunderstand. Negative criticism is fine, so long as it's constructive -- ie. there's a point to it and it's not simply another avenue for scribes to slight the 4e FR designers/authors or their work with the 4e Realms. We've seen too much of that lately, and it's becoming extraordinarily annoying. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 16:35:51
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| Yep ... no slurs vs the current FR designers required. That should be below a Candlekeep scribe. The sad thing is that due to NDA or the like, we probably will never hear what the Greenwoods, Boyds, Reids et al have to say about the Shattered Realms and their view on the changes. Alas, George Krashos did in no uncertain terms and I for one doubt that he's currently on WotC's books. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 14 Aug 2009 16:36:47 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 17:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Yep ... no slurs vs the current FR designers required. That should be below a Candlekeep scribe.
I guess "Orcus-man" doesn't count as a slur, eh? 
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
The sad thing is that due to NDA or the like, we probably will never hear what the Greenwoods, Boyds, Reids et al have to say about the Shattered Realms and their view on the changes.
This is something I'd like to know too, but practically speaking it will be far easier (and more useful to Candlekeep) to stick with establishing some sort of timeline and gathering fact-based information on the changes, when they happened and why. |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 19:50:42
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Sage,
You are wise with your consel about the constructive critiques of the new Realms.
Coming from one who is not a fan of the changes, or new edition for that matter, even I find some things worth looking at a second time. Ideas are great, and there are many ideas in the new realms. Do I like all of them, personally? No. Will I say that X designer is a >expletive deleted<? No. That's out of line.
Now, Sage, I want to make sure that my example below is in the rules, I'm making sure that I'm not breaking any rules, not trying to put forth any strong discussions.
You can, as sage points out, critique a mechanic or part of the realms and say "I don't like this part of the new realms because of x." and then put forth your changes.
My example: I don't like the changes along the Chultan Penninsula. I think that they would have been better served by keeping that to allow for more places to adventure. Let alone that this is one of my favorite parts of the Realms. I don't think I'll use this change in my games.
Now, with this, alternate histories remain okay, as it has been said that the realms has alternate histories written and then the alternates can merge back with the timeline.
For those of you who like all the changes: Go for it! I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy yourself. Just remember, RPG's are not one size fits all.
Also: Please do not gloat and call this a victory for the changes.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 21:20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Yep ... no slurs vs the current FR designers required. That should be below a Candlekeep scribe.
I guess "Orcus-man" doesn't count as a slur, eh?
Slur? It was he who (AFAIK) created the whilst-in-the-making - codeword for 4E as "Project: Orcus"* and I for one wouldn't be surprised if it was him who made sure that it was this thrice-risen fiend-thing which was to appear on the cover of a Dungeon & Dragons monster manual. But I could be all wrong, of course. Though it was Mr. "I'm not interested in the Realms nor play there" who is the architect of 4E nonetheless. Hence I'd do all but invite him to this board. But that's not my decision to make.
*Obviously, the irony is that it was Kiaransalee and virtually within Realmspace were Orcus was laid to rest twice. My cynical self would say that slaughtering the drow pantheon and all was just the icing of the cake for him, after this utterly useless demon-thing already made its oh-so glorious return late in 3E/RE. But my cynical self is still in holiday mode ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 14 Aug 2009 21:28:16 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 00:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Now, Sage, I want to make sure that my example below is in the rules, I'm making sure that I'm not breaking any rules, not trying to put forth any strong discussions.
You can, as sage points out, critique a mechanic or part of the realms and say "I don't like this part of the new realms because of x." and then put forth your changes.
My example: I don't like the changes along the Chultan Penninsula. I think that they would have been better served by keeping that to allow for more places to adventure. Let alone that this is one of my favorite parts of the Realms. I don't think I'll use this change in my games.
Now, with this, alternate histories remain okay, as it has been said that the realms has alternate histories written and then the alternates can merge back with the timeline.
For those of you who like all the changes: Go for it! I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy yourself. Just remember, RPG's are not one size fits all.
Also: Please do not gloat and call this a victory for the changes.
/d
Sounds good Darkmeer.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 02:05:14
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Thanks Sage,
I'm glad my theorizations are still in line
I'll sit down and be quiet now
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 03:17:37
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So a brief question,
Does this proclamation disallow direct attacks at Hasbro Inc.
for corporate direction? One can call out a company while not
naming any individuals. |
Edited by - althen artren on 15 Aug 2009 03:19:18 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 03:58:23
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
That’s reasonable.
When I started reading the thread from Old Man Harpell some days ago where he asked, what people liked about the 4e realms setting, I suddenly felt that this was what I had been missing here a bit.
I have to give that scroll and Old Man Harpell the same credit. It got me thinking more about what I could use from the new Realms, and how I could use it.
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
I am currently starting to read 4e material. In terms of rules it looks just fine to me. I am still very unpleased with the nuking out of the old realms and their tremendous lore (what a brutal waste ), but Wizards is not going to turn back time.
You never know... they're doing a complete reset for Dark Sun, and it was rumoured back when 4E first came out that the same thing was being done for Greyhawk... but now it's hard to say if we'll even see a 4E Greyhawk.
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
In the end, the value and long-term future of this forum will certainly depend on if 4e will be discussed here in a more neutral manner along with the other editions and thus being a forum for all realms fans, not just pre-4e. Otherwise it will probably slowly turn into a site without D&D designers, likely fewer authors and fewer and more specific users.
Again: this is not against the old realms, it is just that I would love to see CK.com as the one site that answers my questions on ALL editions, be it 2e (which at this time I personally like best) or 3e or 4e in the same friendly way.
I agree, all things considered, and The Sage has made a commitment to keeping Candlekeep edition-neutral, which I'm very much in favour of. Everyone who has DM'ed the Realms has made changes of their own, and it was that epiphany that made me realize that I could no longer condone my own reactionary response to the Spellplague and timeline jump. If I don't like it, I have the choice not to use it. The great loss for me, and I suspect for many others who dislike the Spellplague, is in all of the lore for the pre-Spellplague Realms that is still under lock and key and (obsolete?) NDA at Wizbro, now never to see the light of day thanks to Wizbro's stated policy of not supporting the pre-Spellplague Realms.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 15 Aug 2009 03:59:21 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 05:24:06
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
So a brief question,
Does this proclamation disallow direct attacks at Hasbro Inc.
for corporate direction? One can call out a company while not
naming any individuals.
Well, we've never had much in the way of directed verbal attacks against the corporation itself. And, really, there's not much of a place for that type of thing at Candlekeep. We're here to discuss the Realms. Not Hasbro. So I'd prefer that any Hasbro-based chatter be directed to more appropriate forums and/or discussion sites.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 06:35:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
So a brief question,
Does this proclamation disallow direct attacks at Hasbro Inc.
for corporate direction? One can call out a company while not
naming any individuals.
Well, we've never had much in the way of directed verbal attacks against the corporation itself. And, really, there's not much of a place for that type of thing at Candlekeep. We're here to discuss the Realms. Not Hasbro. So I'd prefer that any Hasbro-based chatter be directed to more appropriate forums and/or discussion sites.
Not only that, but we don't know of anything specific that Hasbro may or may not have done. I'm all for venting my ire on the appropriate people, but I make sure I know who the appropriate people are, first.
I know there's been a lot of speculation as to how much of this was mandated by Hasbro, but so far as I know, there is not a single verifiable fact anywhere that any of us has access to. Unless someone has some hard info on what involvement Hasbro had, I'd encourage leaving them out of this. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 07:47:37
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Indeed. Some of us may disagree with the decisions we think Hasbro may have made with respect to WotC's development of certain RPG intellectual properties, but we've no hard facts or data on this.
Which means, simply, that the Hasbro-based individuals who may have been responsible are not free targets for insults and verbal attacks. As such, like those 4e designers and authors who visit here at Candlekeep, the Hasbro corporate types should receive the same level of respect and courtesy we demonstrate toward WotC's 4e FR development team now.
There are other channels available online for individual scribes to vent their frustrations. Candlekeep should remain solely for discussion about the Realms and its development by WotC. Hasbro corporate decisions would likely make for dry and somewhat lengthy discussions -- and not really the type of stuff we want to read at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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A message to all the scribes of Candlekeep...
