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mboden
Acolyte
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 19:40:16
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I was wondering if it is possible to begin play as a paladin of Sune and then later multi-class to a cleric of Sune? In the Faiths book it states that Sune can have Lawful good worshippers- Paladin's only, does this rule out or in a lawful good cleric of the same deity, given you have multi-classed from paladin?
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mboden |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 19:48:35
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| I would allow it, I'm not fond of alignment restrictions anyway (as long as it makes sense, of course). |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 20:04:45
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| Faiths and Avatars from 2e said she had LG clergy, so don't see why clerics couldn't be LG. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 21:05:57
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I had a lawful good devoted performer (bard/paladin) of Sune, so I don't think a LG paladin/cleric would be too much of a stretch. If you don't want to just allow it outright, you could require the character to get special dispensation from the church, or take a house feat that would play to the character's varied strengths.
Here's a suggestion on the fly:
Crusader of the Faith
Req: smite evil, lawful good alignment
Benefits: You may multiclass freely between paladin and cleric so long as you remain Lawful Good, regardless of the alignment of your deity. Your cleric levels stack with your paladin levels when determining your effective level for using lay on hands, as well as your effective level for turning undead.
Special: If you cease to be lawful good, you lose all paladin abilities normally and lose all cleric abilities if your new alignment is not compatible with your chosen deity (i.e., within one step).
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 01:03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Grrrr. This is all a result of the "one-step" idea.
I'm sorry, but I do not understand how Sune can possibly have paladins. She is inherently chaotic (and there's nothing wrong with that), and that is simply incompatible with what it means to be a paladin.
Every religion needs defenders of the faith. Paladins could be dedicated to ensuring that people can pursue her dogma.
From page 151 of Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
The church also has a small affiliated knightly order of fighters, paladins, and bards who serve to guard temples and holy sites along with the clergy and who sometimes pursue quests or do good works in Sune’s name to promote her faith.
and
quote:
Members in this order are given to writing essays and songs of courtly love when not engaged in vital business, and often adopt a beautiful individual to adore from afar whether that individual would be flattered by such attentions or not.
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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 04:47:07
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| I've always liked our house rule and the alternate alignment paladins. The standing rule at our table is that a PC can play a paladin so long as the player matches the alignment of their diety. I know this isn't truely an answer to the question, but it would allow for a pally/cleric without messing with that particular alignment question. We, my players, agree with Wooly in that all faiths have their holy warriors and this is how we explain it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 13:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
No disagreement on the issue of "defenders of the faith," but in particular, 3E offered up a whole slew of different ways to pursue that idea without using the paladin class. Between PrCs, multi-classed faithful, and different "builds" of cleric, there are plenty of options for CG Sunite militant clergy and followers.
While I myself wouldn't per se rule out the idea of LG good clergy in her church, I would view them as extremely rare, and the idea of an order of LG militants as too divergent from her core philosophy to be accepted by the church at large.
YMMV, of course.
But it canon that she's got an affiliated order that includes paladins, and there's no mention of it being unaccepted by the church. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 15:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
While I myself wouldn't per se rule out the idea of LG good clergy in her church, I would view them as extremely rare, and the idea of an order of LG militants as too divergent from her core philosophy to be accepted by the church at large.
But it canon that she's got an affiliated order that includes paladins, and there's no mention of it being unaccepted by the church.
I think you're both right. I think this affiliated order (the Radiant Heart? Ruby Heart? forgot the name at the moment) is a big exception to the rule, but that *outside* this order, LG priests of Sune would be very rare. To my knowledge, nothing in the canon says that there are LG clerics in this order, and the OP is at least halfway about clerics, not paladins.
What it boils down to is: canon is not particularly clear on whether there exist LG priests of Sune in 3.5, so if it works for your game, do it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 00:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I think you're both right. I think this affiliated order (the Radiant Heart? Ruby Heart? forgot the name at the moment) is a big exception to the rule, but that *outside* this order, LG priests of Sune would be very rare.
Aye.
Sune's beliefs would likely encourage her LG paladins to pursue romantic involvement with others in an attempt to foster their goddess's portfolio -- regardless of their deity's alignment. The activities of the Sisters and Brothers of the Ruby Rose would seem to support this -- when compared to the clergy of another deity, like Helm for example. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Edited by - The Sage on 08 Aug 2009 00:28:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 02:32:36
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
I'm quoting Wooly, but I also agree with Erik (and thanks for the post, which I think sums up the argument well).
Again, Herr Hamster, no argument with you - it is in the canon. I just happen to think that that part of the canon was poorly thought out, along with much of what came out of the "one-step" rule.
Which would allow for (in my mind) all sorts of perversions that aren't part of the canon, but could be, according to the rules, like paladins of Hoar, etc.
I realize this all drifts from the poor OP's question. It's just a pet peeve about what I suspect was a design idea intended to offer even more intriguing options for players but left the door open for, well, abominations might be too strong a word, but not much.
Again - the canon disagrees. But then, WoTC's been tossing it aside. Can't I?
And, to keep on topic: assuming that you're allowed to be a paladin of Sune, and you want to multi-class, it would be somewhat silly of said deity to refuse a follower who wishes to further their spiritual ties, wouldn't it?
Your post seems to imply that you think Sunite paladins are a 3E thing... I just want to point out that the idea (and most of the info we have on such) comes from 2E, which predates the (agreeably silly) one-step rule. |
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Lawful good clerics of Sune?
