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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 13:20:33
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I was wondering about how the new state was suppost to be governed,
Ilsevele Miritar is the cyrrent coronal, but what about any other seats of goverment?
Should the old councel reappear, and if that happens could be what Kymil Nimmesin planed all along ( i dont know how could he acted since the reclamation is a dream come true for him, however he is an official traitor of Evermeet and the Elves )
On the other hand i am thinking about the relations with Evermeet, Almaruil is the Queen of all Elves and cares for the prosperity of The People, but what about other Noble Elves families, perhaps they could claim old and forgotten titles and try to grab a piece of the action.
EDIT:i am reffering to pre-Spellplague Realms
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 04 Jul 2009 13:22:15
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 20:46:47
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| IIRC, Amlauril isn't 'Queen of all the Elves', she's Queen of Evermeet, and that's about it. Whilst the fair folk elsewhere might defer to her based on her wisdom and power, those outside of Evermeet itself owe her no fealty. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 21:58:31
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My personal opinion on Amlaruil is much the same as Knight's: that she's the equivalent of a Coronal (in fact, I actually call her a coronal, but for this it doesn't matter exactly what she's called). She can only issue commands within her own realm, but since she's the only remaining elven Coronal on Faerun (excepting the sea elves of Seros), the other land-based elves give her a great deal of respect. Once elven realms begin to reappear with their own coronals, like Myth Drannor, Amlaruil becomes just one more of several powerful, co-equal elves who as heads-of-state can advise each other, but can't command elves from each others' realms.
My feeling is that the Council left a bad taste in the mouths of many elves, since much of the blame for Myth Drannor's fall can be placed on the council's factions and inaction at the time of crisis. Plus, Ilsevele probably got a description from her father on Evermeet's council and how it was making both his and Amlaruil's lives difficult. I doubt they'd reestablish a council in anything beyond a purely advisory level.
As for nobles, well, elves have always had nobles, which is a good enough reason for them to always have nobles. Exactly what kind and from where is an open option. Some noble houses from Evermeet would likely return, and possibly from Evereska as well. Half a dozen clans fled to Selu'Maraar and Naramyr and became sea elves, it's possible a few younger scions might try to re-establish their houses on the surface and increase the relations between Myth Drannor and the sea elven realms.
It's also possible that Ilsevele will sponsor the founding of all-new nobles houses from among the Crusade's war leaders. Some of these could just be life titles, but others could be hereditary. If she lays out, say, half a dozen houses to be formed and actually only fills two or three, the others could remain open for the next batch of mighty heroes. She'd make sure everyone in the city knew of it, so that the people would have even greater inspiration to become legendary heroes in defense of the city. This would also be a way for non-elves to become nobles of Myth Drannor, but it should be a single reward, not "everyone in the party gets their own noble house." Potentially, they could put one of their member forward, and the rest get life titles, sort of like the Knights of Myth Drannor. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2009 : 11:36:20
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Considering Queen Almaruil you are right, she is not the Queen of all Elves as i stated,i carried away by my own conversion in my Realms that even if she is not the rightfull ruler for every elf, she is respected and venerated, and the title Queen of all Elves is not official, more like an elf saying (and what most non-elves believes to be so). Thanks for pointing out.
I think it could be near impossible for a non-elf to become noble even in Myth Drannor, perhaps a life title and the status of "elf-friend" is all they can get.
The council proved trouble in the past, but denying its existance would be wise? I think the balance beetwen traditional elves and "modern" elves would have broken, some Sun Elves barely afforted the situation in Evermeet, Myth Drannor could be a reason for unrest
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 06 Jul 2009 11:39:30 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2009 : 17:08:10
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The Council (at least in Myth Drannor), was actually a very recent and brief construction. For the vast majority of the realm's existence, it was ruled by the Coronal, period. The Ruling Council was a stop-gap, created when no new Coronal could be crowned and the realm needed some way of ruling itself. Considering how badly they botched the job, I doubt too many people would be clamoring for its return. In fact, it would be more likely that the elves see sole rule by the Coronal as "returning to the proper way to do things."
As for non-elven nobles, in the past Myth Drannor you'd be correct. In the new one, well, that's an open question and up for you to decide. It's at least a possibility. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 09:37:45
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I am not so sure about that, there are People like Kymil and his lot, they were enought to try to conquer Evermeet by force. (not themselves by they organized, finnanced and in some occations led the assault).
My idea is that: if they won there should be enough People willing to follow them, Kymil didnt want to extinquish the Elven race, he wanted to make a coup against Almaruil and the royal family in order to re-establish the Elven Court (and the rule of the Sun Elves). So perhaps there are more admirers of the Old court than it seems?
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 14:22:35
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You're confusing Evermeet and Myth Drannor. Evermeet was ruled by a council from its first population with moon/gold elves during the Crown Wars, while the elves waited for the moonblades to choose a "king" to rule instead. It was always expected that when the moonblades made the choice, the council would step aside and let the "king" rule. It was this system the Kymil wanted to overturn, essentially declaring the entire moonblade process wrong, despite the council essentially holding the rulership of Evermeet in trust over the milennia until the "king" returned (allusions to LotR's Stewards of Gondor intended).
Myth Drannor/Cormanthor, however, was ruled by a single, more-or-less absolute coronal from its founding just after the Crown Wars all the way up to Eltargrim's death. The vast, vast majority of Cormanthor's existence, it was what humans would consider a royal court. It had a single monarch, their spouse and children, a court with nobles, and an inner circle of advisors. The idea of a ruling council only appeared after the line of the coronals had been completely broken, AND the Shrinshee had disappeared with the Ruling Blade. It was a stop-gap that, like trailer homes, stuck around far longer than it should have.
Now that Myth Drannor has a new coronal, there's no need for a ruling council. A group of advisors, yes, like any other monarch, but no co-equal or anything close. Evermeet has a milennia-long tradition of a ruling council, which is why Amlaruil still has to contest it, and what Kymil wanted to restore. Myth Drannor does not, in fact, it has the opposite. The ruling council in Myth Drannor did such a bad job, there aren't many who would want to bring it back.
Btw, have you read the novel Evermeet and the sourcebook Cormanthor? A lot of this is spelled out in those two sources. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 14:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
I am not so sure about that, there are People like Kymil and his lot, they were enought to try to conquer Evermeet by force. (not themselves by they organized, finnanced and in some occations led the assault).
My idea is that: if they won there should be enough People willing to follow them, Kymil didnt want to extinquish the Elven race, he wanted to make a coup against Almaruil and the royal family in order to re-establish the Elven Court (and the rule of the Sun Elves). So perhaps there are more admirers of the Old court than it seems?
Kymil and his buddies weren't as much concerned with the government itself as they were with who held the power. They considered themselves to be superior to moon elves, and therefore felt that having moon elves in power was wrong and even insulting. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 16:49:39
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That's it! you are right Hoondatha, it seems i have somehow confused the two courts in my mind. Thanks for pointing out. I have red recently the Elfshadow but the Evermeet novel has been years...i have forgotten much of it, since last week i started rereading it but i havent reach that point yet.
It all makes sense now. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 17:59:56
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| Not a problem. FR is such a rich setting, with such depth, that sometimes it's easy to mix things about without knowing. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 14:29:30
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| Actually from my understanding queen Amlauril was the ruler of the elven court before it was abandoned during the retreat and moved to evermeet with that large body of elven nobles taking over rulership once they got there. So seeing how important the elven court was to the elves would that not give her more clout than just being a regular coronal. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 15:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by kysus
Actually from my understanding queen Amlauril was the ruler of the elven court before it was abandoned during the retreat and moved to evermeet with that large body of elven nobles taking over rulership once they got there. So seeing how important the elven court was to the elves would that not give her more clout than just being a regular coronal.
Nope. According to the novel Evermeet, Amlaruil has spent pretty much all of her time on Evermeet. There was no mention of her living elsewhere.
Besides, the moonblades were to pick a ruler of Evermeet. She and Zaor (who did live in Myth Drannor, as I recall) both rose to prominence on Evermeet, and likely wouldn't have been able to become rulers elsewhere. |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2009 : 05:57:50
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| Boy do I feel stupid, guess I should have reread through some of my books first before proceeding to step 3- putting foot in mouth. well anyway I went back and scanned through some of my books and that brings me to a question in the Ruins of myth drannor book it says that elven court is ruled by a group of elders, while in the 2nd edition box set Grand tour of the realms it kinda leads u to think it is run by a royal family of some sort. So my question would be which one of these sources is right and also is there any information on who these leaders are? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2009 : 06:52:48
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| I think it refers to the family of the Coronal that once ruled Myth Drannor, and not any current royal family. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 22:11:15
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Hmm very interesting to see this discussed. I managed to get confused by it all though. So in about 1375 how would the Myth Drannor be ruled by Coronal Ilsevele Miritar if her supporting advisors and their familial clans are still largely situated on Evermeet? Wouldn't it be in her interest to start controlling the newly conquered land right away?
I guess the clans from Evermeet that went on her crusade would have gotten ruling responcabilities. Her generals and lieutenants would make able candidates to advise the Coronal in the first few decades of her rulership.
After the first few years of stabilisation actual resettling of the old clans might bring the strife to the seated advisors. The seated Akh'fearn and Akh'velarn generals and officers in positions of power would not be seen fit to rule by the returnig clans as they have no "heriditary claims" whatsoever. They would not have the political power that some of the Everaskan en Evermeetian(sp) can wield and would be easily unseated by more readily controlled puppets of the powerful gold elven en moon elven clans... |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2009 : 22:25:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
After the first few years of stabilisation actual resettling of the old clans might bring the strife to the seated advisors. The seated Akh'fearn and Akh'velarn generals and officers in positions of power would not be seen fit to rule by the returnig clans as they have no "heriditary claims" whatsoever. They would not have the political power that some of the Everaskan en Evermeetian(sp) can wield and would be easily unseated by more readily controlled puppets of the powerful gold elven en moon elven clans...
I will try to experiment with that in my game, after all politics and keeping a fragile balance is a major feature in the Realms.
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Myth Drannor and matters of Rulership (spoilers?)
