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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 17:53:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SeeDiGi
What do you mean 'entitlement'? I think that people who like the world should feel entitled to having info about it (if WOTC is going to put it out on it to begin with). Did I maybe misunderstand your meaning?
I think that entitlement refers to a lot of people that seem to be of the opinion that WotC should have taken them into consideration when making these changes.
I'm one of those folks.
Not that I think the WotC execs should have asked me specifically what I wanted, but I do think that the concerns and interests of existing fans -- particularly longtime fans, like myself -- of the setting should have been taken into account. Instead, I have the feeling that the existing fans were only an afterthought, if even that much. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 18:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
One last Point...
One of the early points they made after the 4e announcement was that they wanted players to "think D&D, NOT Forgotten Realms" (or Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, etc...). The new design paradigm seems to work toward that end, not allowing people to become too deeply immersed in each setting (I also understand tthat reasoning - FR fans buy FR books, D&D fans buy ALL the books).
Regardless of the efficacy of this strategy towards the Realms, they're doing a good job of it overall for 4e. Making the FRPG the stop for drow statistics and including Swordmages in Arcane Power went a long way towards making things quite consistent and progressive. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 00:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
One last Point...
One of the early points they made after the 4e announcement was that they wanted players to "think D&D, NOT Forgotten Realms" (or Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, etc...). The new design paradigm seems to work toward that end, not allowing people to become too deeply immersed in each setting (I also understand tthat reasoning - FR fans buy FR books, D&D fans buy ALL the books).
Regardless of the efficacy of this strategy towards the Realms, they're doing a good job of it overall for 4e. Making the FRPG the stop for drow statistics and including Swordmages in Arcane Power went a long way towards making things quite consistent and progressive.
The FRPG expands to Forgotten Realms Players' Guide. It does, IMHO; not expand to something like - "we give you two more races plus rules to go with them and other stuff galore", for as a player I'd rather see not half of the book dedicated to primarily DM lore, but background info on my setting. Worse still, the drow as a race are actually described (including the powers et al) as evil creatures all over the place, but no remark whatsoever for the player or the DM that playing a drow in the Realms is far from the norm, or rather, people tend to kill oyu first and look for your intentions / alignment / you name it second. You get all the nasty drow stuff, poison and all, but still no word that this is not exactly in the spirit of the game. On the contrary, they present the drow warlock as a sample choice (in the Players' Guide!) and introduce it with:
Spells of darkness, poison, madness, and spite fill your mind.
Dunno, but comparing that book with the one of the Old Grey box or the PGtF, I know which of those I would recommend tp my players and in what order. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 31 Jul 2009 00:18:30 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 06:24:45
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Hello, all...this is but my second post within these halls, and my mind is off in a dozen directions as I type, so please forgive me if my words seem disjointed somehow. And please forgive the length - I can be quite wordy, especially when I have a strong opinion.
As I understand it, Rich Baker stated that killing Mystra and the resulting Spellplague were WotC's way of bringing the Realms into 'magical continuity' (paraphrasing) with the 4th Edition ruleset - as well trying to make it fit into the 'P.C.'s are the stars' paradigm - aka 'Points of Light' (thus their justification for slaughtering many of the Big Names of the Realms - those that didn't sell books, anyways).
I cannot help but feel that they could have taken several disparate elements of magic (such as the warping energies of the Far Realm, perhaps to the level of threat that Mystra couldn't ignore it or simply send someone to deal with it. Send Cyric off to try to assassinate her (again  ), have his attempt distract her at a crucial moment, and have the resulting effects be what brings the magic system into line, whether it is a Spellplague or something else entirely. He shouldn't actually succeed, mind you - perhaps Azuth, Savras, and Velsharoon manage to beat on him long enough for Mystra to recover, with the attempt earning him his thousand-year house arrest as per the FRCG, which I always considered waaaaaay too lenient for what he did. A thousand years - big deal. Only 900 to go. Do you actually believe they're going to let him go when the time's up? I wouldn't.
Many of their attempts to shoehorn the Realms into the Core Rules Applied Paradigm didn't go off as intended - the destruction of Luiren, for example. While having it sink was something that didn't actually bother me much, halflings haven't changed all that much...and now there's one less slice of the Realms we all remember and love. And that is but one example of something that occurs again and again.
Returned Abeir is not bad...but they could have likely avoided some controversy by putting it somewhere else. In the Campaign Guide for 3rd edition, there is a complete map of the planet Toril on page 231 - and you will see, in the far southeastern corner of the planet, a landmass under the moniker 'Unknown Lands'. I cannot help but feel that it would have better served them to place it there, rather than invalidate the works that several authors had done when they created Maztica (regardless of how one feels about Maztica itself).
Granted, there are a (very) few things that the FRCG has that I like - High Imaskar, Netheril, and the 're-greening' of Anauroch (which never made much sense to me as a desert that far north). And there are rumors (and they are just that, rumors) that WotC is going to do a 'half-backpedal' on Neverwinter, finding a way to explain how it's always been there and is now a part of the continuity - if true, I will be very interested in seeing how that is accomplished.
It seems to me that WotC has a golden opportunity to fix their mistake, which approaches Sony Online's 'NGE' for their Star Wars Galaxies online MMO for ignoring the loyal fanbase and half-baked excuses as to why things were done the way they were...and to make a pile of money in the process. To explain:
How many people remember (or know of) the season of the TV drama Dallas where multiple popular characters were killed off, the storyline became disjointed, and their Nielsen ratings completely tanked? They resolved the problem by having one of the characters wake up and discover that everything that had happened that season had been a dream. A horrible, horrible dream.
While I do not suggest that it all 'be a dream', WotC could put out a new hardbound, with much of the controversial things that detracted from the FRCG either removed or changed completely, in the spirit of the Old Grey Box (maybe have a grey cover with some of the less-known canon souls, like Liriel Baenre, Sememmon, and so forth). Change the period to just after the Spellplague, or just before. Or explain it as a divergent timeline that better reflects what the Realms should have been like.
I'd buy it.
Anyways, my apologies for the length. I am sure I could have written much more, but this was likely plenty for being among my initial posts. |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 03 Aug 2009 06:28:18 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 06:39:13
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Old Man Harpell, I agree with just about every word you've typed. My only disagreement is with your assessment of what WotC could do. I'll agree, they very well *could* do that... but to do so would be to admit that the 4E Realms are a failure (whether this is true or not)... which is precisely why they *won't* do that. The biggest deviation from the Sellplague that I expect to see from Wizbro is to abandon the Realms entirely... which only works for me if they sell it off on the cheap to Paizo, who subsequently hire Mr. Schend and Mr. Krashos (I believe SKR is already there). 
Edit: Yes, I know that abandoning the Realms entirely for a calendar year causes the rights to revert back to Ed. But that creates the thorny issues of which parts of the IP go back to Ed, and what happens to the other parts (Zeb Cook's Kara-Tur, Jeff Grubb's Zakhara, the other work Jeff Grubb has contributed to Toril (including that name), etc.); Ed and THO have commented on this in his 2009 scroll, and this is part of why Ed's deepest wish is for the Realms to continue in the status quo, whatever that may be, simply because that is what's best for the players. (Of course, as I understand it, this same motive is why Ed argued so vehemently against a time jump and setting blowup.) [/edit]
Just my two coppers.  I, too, could have written much, much more, but most of it I've already said elsewhere in these scrolls, and I've already repeated myself too often here.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Aug 2009 06:45:31 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 07:00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Right.
<chop>
One last Point...
One of the early points they made after the 4e announcement was that they wanted players to "think D&D, NOT Forgotten Realms" (or Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, etc...). The new design paradigm seems to work toward that end, not allowing people to become too deeply immersed in each setting (I also understand tthat reasoning - FR fans buy FR books, D&D fans buy ALL the books).
<snip>
Regarding that last point... Wizbro's logic as described above doesn't work for me. I consider myself an FR fan, yet my 1E/2E library also includes the 1E Greyhawk boxed set (2 copies, books in mint condition, but only one copy of the maps, and no boxes) and the 2E Dark Sun, Birthright, Ravenloft, Planescape, and Greyhawk settings and accessories (except some adventures for Greyhawk that I'm sorry I missed). I didn't get into AD&D early enough to get the original WG adventure series, but I got the orange-spine rulebooks new (then sold them when 2E came out, then re-acquired other copies later on) and managed to track down the original Deities and Demigods and Fiend Folio through my local game store at the time. So no, the "setting-specific fan" argument doesn't wash with me... but then, I'm a D&D fan first and a Realms fan also first... and a D&D in the Realms fan second. That is why I can't abide the changes; for me, the new rules just don't feel like D&D any more, and the new setting doesn't feel like the Realms. I know many of you feel the same way, and many others don't; I'm not here to throw accelerant on the fire, just to state my position. The new Realms simply don't fit what I have currently happening or planned for the future in my FR campaign, and the DM of the FR game I play in feels likewise. [/rant] |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Aug 2009 07:02:41 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 18:50:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And there are rumors (and they are just that, rumors) that WotC is going to do a 'half-backpedal' on Neverwinter, finding a way to explain how it's always been there and is now a part of the continuity - if true, I will be very interested in seeing how that is accomplished.
Would you mind extrapolating on what exactly you mean here? Do you meant that there are rumors that they are going to "un-destroy" Neverwinter? (Which was really stupid considering the number of people who were introduced to the Realms and D&D in NW1). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 19:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Old Man Harpell, I agree with just about every word you've typed. My only disagreement is with your assessment of what WotC could do. I'll agree, they very well *could* do that... but to do so would be to admit that the 4E Realms are a failure (whether this is true or not)... which is precisely why they *won't* do that. The biggest deviation from the Sellplague that I expect to see from Wizbro is to abandon the Realms entirely... which only works for me if they sell it off on the cheap to Paizo, who subsequently hire Mr. Schend and Mr. Krashos (I believe SKR is already there).
You make a very good point.
Saving face and stubborn pride will be the things that trump profit motive in this instance. Who'da thunk?
In truth, I would not weep if WotC abandoned the Realms, and someone like Paizo picked it up. I would be willing to bet that at least some of the folks at Paizo (and other game companies) are paying attention to debates such as this one, and hoping for exactly the same thing...as well as figuring out how it could be done better (imagine a Realms timeline done by someone who actually cares about the Realms! <dreams>).
Your concerns about reversion copyright is also well-taken...but Ed Greenwood and Jeff Grubb (amongst others) are thoughtful and rational souls. I don't actually see much problem taking the 'Classic Realms' and giving it to a company who will do it justice (and did you notice - hardly a peep about Zakhara - seeming to at least imply that Mr. Grubb had a bit more control over his creations.
I would love to see a 'Realms Reimagined' tome...one that can bring Faerun into 4th Edition (or Pathfinder, or whatnot) while...well, leaving the Realms the Realms, and not, as my son likes to say, FRITO (Forgotten Realms In Title Only).
Many apologies to the snack food of the same name.
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 19:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And there are rumors (and they are just that, rumors) that WotC is going to do a 'half-backpedal' on Neverwinter, finding a way to explain how it's always been there and is now a part of the continuity - if true, I will be very interested in seeing how that is accomplished.
Would you mind extrapolating on what exactly you mean here? Do you meant that there are rumors that they are going to "un-destroy" Neverwinter? (Which was really stupid considering the number of people who were introduced to the Realms and D&D in NW1).
I will do my best.
I am not a subscriber to DDI, but that does not stop me from going to the WotC site and perusing the forums.
From what I read, and the way I understood it (and it is entirely possible I misinterpreted this, but I am inclined to doubt that), they are leaning toward saying that Neverwinter was not destroyed as you would classically define 'destruction', but rather in a fashion similar to the Plague that was the fulcrum of NWN, which 'destroyed' Neverwinter until the player character solved the mysteries of the malady, confronted Aribeth, and so on and so forth, allowing the city to recover from it's 'destruction'.
In other words, Neverwinter the city as a physical entity has never gone away - it simply ceased to have any significance following the Smellplague due to <horrible disaster inserted here>, and is only now emerging to re-take its place in the Realms.
This is how I interpreted what I read. I hope beyond all hope that I didn't misinterpret what was said - because then at least the majority of the Sword Coast would still feel like the Realms of old. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 20:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
(and did you notice - hardly a peep about Zakhara - seeming to at least imply that Mr. Grubb had a bit more control over his creations.
Nope. Zakhara, more than perhaps any of the other subsettings, was a bolt-on to the Realms proper. Admittedly, I've not read everything, but I only recall one character from there, and most references to it in FR stuff were passing references, at most. Kara-Tur and Maztica both had more involvement in the main setting, by being involved in stories that were part of the main setting (the Tuigan invasion) or by having main setting characters involved in the subsetting (the settling and trade with Maztica).
So Zakhara was always just kinda there... And I'm pretty sure it never had anything to do with any of the novels (save for the backstory of one character), until the other subsettings.
Most companies -- regardless of their business -- specify that anything you create while working for them belongs entirely to them. With a game company, that would be even more likely.
So the lack of mention of Zakhara is more because it wasn't important enough to mention, and has nothing to do with someone who is no longer even with the company. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 20:51:00
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Your explanation of the Neverwinter situation is exactly right Old Man Harpell.
Regarding Zakhara: I tried to provide some integration between Zakhara and Faerûn through my Grand History vignette on the Utter East. But then again, the Utter East was largely ignored as well. /sigh |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2009 : 21:20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most companies -- regardless of their business -- specify that anything you create while working for them belongs entirely to them. With a game company, that would be even more likely.
So the lack of mention of Zakhara is more because it wasn't important enough to mention, and has nothing to do with someone who is no longer even with the company.
Bleah...I hate it when I can't argue a point. Old geezer -1.
But then again, that being the case, if Zakhara has already been established as an integral part of Toril (as the map on p.231 of 3rd Edition FR indicates), what might that portend if WotC does indeed abandon the Realms, causing the properties to revert to EG? Would he then have legal rights to the 'bolt-on' additions to his intellectual properties?
I have never before found myself fervently hoping that a game company never again produces something for a setting that I so dearly love - it is not exactly the kind of feeling I enjoy. But I would like to see what another company could do with the Realms, and hopefully 'un-NGE' it so that it was...well...once again the Realms.
And thank you, BRJ, for confirming that I did not screw up in my interpretation of the Neverwinter situation. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2009 : 00:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Most companies -- regardless of their business -- specify that anything you create while working for them belongs entirely to them. With a game company, that would be even more likely.
So the lack of mention of Zakhara is more because it wasn't important enough to mention, and has nothing to do with someone who is no longer even with the company.
Bleah...I hate it when I can't argue a point. Old geezer -1.
But then again, that being the case, if Zakhara has already been established as an integral part of Toril (as the map on p.231 of 3rd Edition FR indicates), what might that portend if WotC does indeed abandon the Realms, causing the properties to revert to EG? Would he then have legal rights to the 'bolt-on' additions to his intellectual properties?
One could assume so, since it was all branded as being part of the Realms. That said, I don't know the terms of the original agreement, so it's also possible that areas not created by Ed would not revert to him. He might be able to answer this one better himself, but I don't know -- with lawyers involved, Lurue only knows what he can and can't say. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 01:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
<snip>
You make a very good point.
Saving face and stubborn pride will be the things that trump profit motive in this instance. Who'da thunk?
<chop>
I would love to see a 'Realms Reimagined' tome...one that can bring Faerun into 4th Edition (or Pathfinder, or whatnot) while...well, leaving the Realms the Realms, and not, as my son likes to say, FRITO (Forgotten Realms In Title Only).
Many apologies to the snack food of the same name.
[edit] Original response voluntarily removed; I thought it was a touch over the PG-13 boundary I try to maintain in my posts. For those who saw it, you know why.  [/edit]
[edit] Okay, I have something to make this post useful. I'm curious now as to whether we'll see more of these local retcons in future 4E Realms updates... but I must say that "we" still doesn't include me... I'll consider a DnDi subscription when Halaster is back in the canon Realms again. I can't say I miss him, or Khelben, or any of the Dead Sisters, because in my Realms, they're all still around... except Qilue, who never existed in my Realms to begin with; I had my own Seventh Sister employing a completely different take on the phrase "dark disaster". I just think that killing Halaster off was almost as colossal an error in judgment as nuking Halruaa and messing with the geography.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 05 Aug 2009 04:49:18 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 04:22:48
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The Neverwinter thing always makes me laugh hysterically, I might add. The Realms in Name Only redefines a lot of things, but if they are able to redefine 'utter destruction', that'll be impressive. 
Uzzy - Who's introduction to the Realms at large was, infact, Neverwinter Nights, and still wants Lady Aribeth de Tylmarande to be canon. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 04:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
The Neverwinter thing always makes me laugh hysterically, I might add. The Realms in Name Only redefines a lot of things, but if they are able to redefine 'utter destruction', that'll be impressive.
<snip>
Hey... they were able to redefine Abeir, the entire planar structure of the cosmos, the fundamental nature of magic in the Realms, and almost every inch of coastline in Toril... or at least in Faerun. Redefining "utter destruction" to mean "slight discombobulation" should be a piece of cake. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 12:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I'll consider a DnDi subscription when Halaster is back in the canon Realms again. I can't say I miss him, or Khelben, or any of the Dead Sisters, because in my Realms, they're all still around... except Qilue, who never existed in my Realms to begin with; I had my own Seventh Sister employing a completely different take on the phrase "dark disaster". I just think that killing Halaster off was almost as colossal an error in judgment as nuking Halruaa and messing with the geography.
I never understood why they sandblasted Halruaa, either...and I imagine we'll never find out. I get this image of a Realms dartboard, and a big red dart skewering Halruaa, and an unidentified voice saying "Burn it".
The Sisters, believe it or not, were among some of the NPC's that I actually liked. On one of the rare occasions I got to play (way back when), the DM was running a 'Villains' campaign (and what's more, he made it work - no small feat). The wizard/psion I was playing ended up cursed by none other than Laeral herself. His games were...a tad hazardous.
And now, where are they? Alustriel may still be ruling Silverymoon, and the Simbul is hanging out with the Old Sage (or thereabouts), but it sounds like Qilue isn't the only one who died. Sylune, Laeral, Dove, and Storm all seem to have taken the Big Dirtnap - I guess they were slacking off in selling books.  |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 13:05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Uzzy - Who's introduction to the Realms at large was, infact, Neverwinter Nights, and still wants Lady Aribeth de Tylmarande to be canon.
Wait...that's it...that's why the Realms is in the shape it's in! Just getting revenge on Neverwinter wasn't enough for her! It's her fault! She did it!!   |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 14:29:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And now, where are they? Alustriel may still be ruling Silverymoon, and the Simbul is hanging out with the Old Sage (or thereabouts), but it sounds like Qilue isn't the only one who died. Sylune, Laeral, Dove, and Storm all seem to have taken the Big Dirtnap - I guess they were slacking off in selling books.
Alustriel and Laeral passed away from old age (at least that's the story so far) and Syluné passed to the other side in the Anauroch adventure. No word on Dove or Storm. The Simbul is the only one confirmed as alive and well. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 01:32:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The Simbul is the only one confirmed as alive and well.
Bleah...doesn't that jolly well figure. Qilue and Laeral were my favorites. 
Does anyone (*koff* Brian? *koff*) have any idea when and where the information on Neverwinter will be available? Having players starting out there seems like a decent idea - I believe I could "easily" get them to level 30 over the period of years without ever leaving the lands between the Spine of the World and the Cloud Peak Mountains (i.e. those lands that are still 'the Realms', for the most part). |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 16:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
The Neverwinter thing always makes me laugh hysterically, I might add. The Realms in Name Only redefines a lot of things, but if they are able to redefine 'utter destruction', that'll be impressive.
<snip>
Hey... they were able to redefine Abeir, the entire planar structure of the cosmos, the fundamental nature of magic in the Realms, and almost every inch of coastline in Toril... or at least in Faerun. Redefining "utter destruction" to mean "slight discombobulation" should be a piece of cake.
Only if by "redefine" you mean "change without any real logical in-game explanation."  I think that that is still my biggest dislike of the post-Spellplague Realms, it doesn't feel like they even tried to use any finesse at all when they made the changes they made. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 06 Aug 2009 16:40:01 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 20:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Does anyone (*koff* Brian? *koff*) have any idea when and where the information on Neverwinter will be available?
As far as I know, Neverwinter is off limits to designers. I have no inside info on this, but I'd say smart money is on a future "Neverwinter Nights" game being set there. The text in the FRCG is confusing, I admit. The city's state of "utter ruin" was supposed to be during the events of the Spellplague (nearly a century ago); not the state of things in the present (1479 DR). |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 20:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Does anyone (*koff* Brian? *koff*) have any idea when and where the information on Neverwinter will be available?
As far as I know, Neverwinter is off limits to designers. I have no inside info on this, but I'd say smart money is on a future "Neverwinter Nights" game being set there. The text in the FRCG is confusing, I admit. The city's state of "utter ruin" was supposed to be during the events of the Spellplague (nearly a century ago); not the state of things in the present (1479 DR).
Luskin was trashed as well ...correct? I wonder if there will be a consolidated community/rule there now. |
"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.
"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 20:37:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Does anyone (*koff* Brian? *koff*) have any idea when and where the information on Neverwinter will be available?
As far as I know, Neverwinter is off limits to designers. I have no inside info on this, but I'd say smart money is on a future "Neverwinter Nights" game being set there. The text in the FRCG is confusing, I admit. The city's state of "utter ruin" was supposed to be during the events of the Spellplague (nearly a century ago); not the state of things in the present (1479 DR).
Just curious, but do you know anything about the other areas that where covered by old restrictions (I think Elturel and some others were among them), are these still of-limit in the 2ed.? |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 01:00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Does anyone (*koff* Brian? *koff*) have any idea when and where the information on Neverwinter will be available?
As far as I know, Neverwinter is off limits to designers. I have no inside info on this, but I'd say smart money is on a future "Neverwinter Nights" game being set there. The text in the FRCG is confusing, I admit. The city's state of "utter ruin" was supposed to be during the events of the Spellplague (nearly a century ago); not the state of things in the present (1479 DR).
Thank you, Brian. Much appreciated.
I have to admit that declaring Neverwinter 'off limits' makes sense in terms of long-range development, much as I'd like to see something made for it (even if we are just engaging in speculation here).
I might even buy the next NWN game produced, provided it doesn't lean on the Smellplague and the time jump as focal points for its storyline. But we'd not see any game material released for the region, anyways, as what we have now is all we get.
I admit, though...it would be nice if IP reversion took place counting down from the day after Scepter Tower of Spellgard was released. But I'm willing to bet there's some infernal little proviso that lets them stave that off with DDI material and so on, rather than letting EG get his 'baby' back (and finding someone who can help him resuscitate it). |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 15:13:12
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| I'm late to the thread. If change was needed, I agree with MT, a real re-boot, starting in 1357 DR, with all the mistakes by TSR and WotC edited out. |
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Uriens_The_Gray
Acolyte
Germany
1 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2009 : 12:12:30
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Hello everyone,
This is my first Posting here in the sacred halls of Candle Keep.
I came across this Thread, because i was wondering why WotC lay waste to the Forgotten Realms.
Two reasons, i think, must have led to this terrible decision:
1. Money !! As always... WotC has to earn Money. There is no holy cow.
2. The FR have to suit to the new Ruleset. 4E in this case. But this could have been done far less painfully and slower.
So, whats left? Within a year, WotC transformed the best known Campaign World into a post-nuclear graveyard. My hope is "a real re-boot, starting in 1357 DR, with all the mistakes by TSR and WotC edited out." as Quale said.
How's my writing, i am german. |
We don't quit playing, because we grow old.
We grow old, because we quit playing. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2009 : 13:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Uriens_The_Gray
How's my writing, i am german.
Your writing is fine. Better, in fact, than some of us who speak English as our native tongue. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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What paths could they have taken?
