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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  22:25:50  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cave? What cave? If people like 4e Realms, that's ok, universe-wise they just sit in an alternate timeline, IMO.

And if you wanna read me RANTs, I'll supply the links as well, just cuz I can...

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10389
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10947
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10458
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10643
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10503

Maybe you get a few laughs...and a tear outa them

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Teneck
Learned Scribe

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  22:40:59  Show Profile  Visit Teneck's Homepage Send Teneck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

Cave? What cave? If people like 4e Realms, that's ok, universe-wise they just sit in an alternate timeline, IMO.

And if you wanna read me RANTs, I'll supply the links as well, just cuz I can...

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10389
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10947
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10458
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10643
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10503

Maybe you get a few laughs...and a tear outa them



I read your rants Mace....Um is it ok with you if I just point in yer general direction and say "ditto"...it will save me time

"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.

"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2009 :  22:43:00  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aye

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2009 :  04:42:04  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon

*holding out ale jug*

"Ah...a new arrival in the cave..."


Can I get a mug as well kind sir?

John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe

USA
379 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2009 :  06:41:42  Show Profile  Visit Lady Fellshot's Homepage Send Lady Fellshot a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*Hands Froglegg a mug of stout*

Right, so the Calishite dancing girls are down the tunnel on the left, the frolicking elven boys are down the tunnel on the right, whichever suits your fancy.

Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4436 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2009 :  09:06:53  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll throw in my gold ol' 2-cents in here:

quote:
Originally posted by Teneck
[br[Sorry but I am a bit behind the times, My nephew(whom I taught to play 10 years ago)is all excited about 4th ed, so I thought I would get some other opinions besides my own.


Well my overall opinion of 4E as a whole (setting-free) is that I find it to be alot more entertaining than 3.x for various reasons as far as game mechanics go. I was never a big fan of integrating RPing into character creation in so much as spending valuable resources to further a knack or flavorful hobby of any character. For example, when I played a fighter, I'd probably NEVER put ranks into Profession or Craft mainly because I never found the use for it or it's application to furthering my career as an adventurer.

Another aspect I've found more appealing is the balance of 4E to that of 3.x. Melee based classes (such as the fighter or barbarian) really didn't gain any appeal at higher levels of play except for additional HP and attacks where as spellcasting classes just sky-rocket to awesome heights of power (mass fly, reverse gravity, wish, etc... To me, it just didn't pay to play the meat shield for 20+ levels and really gain anything in return. So for what it's worth, those are just a few (and there are many, many more) reasons why I've paid into 4E. This does not mean, however, that I am giving away my 3.5 or not going to play 3.5 ever again. I like the system and I've very, very used to it so it's nothing to change gears again. I just hate when people ask "Why are you switching over to 4E?" like it was some huge undertaking of burning all my 3.5 stuff and disreguarding all the books that came previously, lol.

As for FR4e, many of the changes the designers made seem to be tailored directly to me. An example is getting rid of Mulhorand, Unther, and Maztica. Those are parts of Faerun I never had the slightest urge to explore and found them to be shoe-horned into the setting to appease people who wanted an Egypt style campaign.

The time jump did bother me a bit, but the huge grey area in between not only allows me as a DM to fill in that gap myself (something I find extreamly fun and refreshing) but it allows authors to fill it in too and not mess too much with continuity. Another example is depleting the abundance of needless Deities. I honestly couldn't stand how much the Gods overlapped each other. To me, it was pretty over-whelming.

Something that I really had no problem with was "the Chosen" or their role in how the Realms plays. My only beef was with the elitist belief that only Mystra should've had them (besides the official Bane and Denir(sp?) templates). If your going to allow PCs the option of gaining HUGE benefts for following a deity, how could you be suprised and/or pissed when PCs of other deities want a variation of those powers? If they were going to create templates for Chosen, they should've done it across the board and left it at that.

Again, thats just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth :D.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36797 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2009 :  15:07:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Something that I really had no problem with was "the Chosen" or their role in how the Realms plays. My only beef was with the elitist belief that only Mystra should've had them (besides the official Bane and Denir(sp?) templates). If your going to allow PCs the option of gaining HUGE benefts for following a deity, how could you be suprised and/or pissed when PCs of other deities want a variation of those powers? If they were going to create templates for Chosen, they should've done it across the board and left it at that.



There's a reason for that view: Mystra having Chosen was a way of limiting her power, and distributing it in case something happened to the Weave. The idea that only Mystra would have Chosen was from Ed.

That said, the Chosen were always meant to be NPCs, and specifically background characters. Becoming a Chosen of any deity should have never been an in-game option.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31726 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2009 :  16:10:41  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

Something that I really had no problem with was "the Chosen" or their role in how the Realms plays. My only beef was with the elitist belief that only Mystra should've had them (besides the official Bane and Denir(sp?) templates). If your going to allow PCs the option of gaining HUGE benefts for following a deity, how could you be suprised and/or pissed when PCs of other deities want a variation of those powers? If they were going to create templates for Chosen, they should've done it across the board and left it at that.



There's a reason for that view: Mystra having Chosen was a way of limiting her power, and distributing it in case something happened to the Weave.
We know that Mystra split up her power to preserve the larger Mystra and the Weave in the event of the individual Mystra's death -- we see it happen in "Shadow of the Avatar," which is a must-read for anyone who wants to know about this subject [or the Godswar, the Dales, Sharantyr, or the Malaugrym].

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3243 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2009 :  17:53:37  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Teneck

Sorry but I am a bit behind the times, My nephew(whom I taught to play 10 years ago)is all excited about 4th ed, so I thought I would get some other opinions besides my own.


Well my overall opinion of 4E as a whole (setting-free) is that I find it to be alot more entertaining than 3.x for various reasons as far as game mechanics go. I was never a big fan of integrating RPing into character creation in so much as spending valuable resources to further a knack or flavorful hobby of any character. For example, when I played a fighter, I'd probably NEVER put ranks into Profession or Craft mainly because I never found the use for it or it's application to furthering my career as an adventurer.


Might interest you that Pathfinder's created a feat called Master Craftsman which allows characters with Craft/Profession skills to use their skill rank to substitute for Caster Level to gain the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Create Wondrous Item feats, and be able to create those magic items.

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Another aspect I've found more appealing is the balance of 4E to that of 3.x. Melee based classes (such as the fighter or barbarian) really didn't gain any appeal at higher levels of play except for additional HP and attacks where as spellcasting classes just sky-rocket to awesome heights of power (mass fly, reverse gravity, wish, etc... To me, it just didn't pay to play the meat shield for 20+ levels and really gain anything in return. So for what it's worth, those are just a few (and there are many, many more) reasons why I've paid into 4E. This does not mean, however, that I am giving away my 3.5 or not going to play 3.5 ever again. I like the system and I've very, very used to it so it's nothing to change gears again. I just hate when people ask "Why are you switching over to 4E?" like it was some huge undertaking of burning all my 3.5 stuff and disreguarding all the books that came previously, lol.


Again, Pathfinder has corrected a lot of this. Barbarian's rage goes by number of rounds (non-consecutive) per day instead of times per day and they now get Rage Powers that allow them to do all kinds of things from bite attacks to darkvision while raging to bonuses to saves. Fighter still gets the feats, but now they also get a Bravery bonus to fear, Armor bonuses and Weapon Training bonuses. Paladins now choose between a special mount or weapon bonuses, their casting is based off Charisma instead of Wisdom and they get new Mercy powers that help them heal conditions with their Lay on Hands power. Finally Rangers can choose between an Animal companion or sharing their Favored Enemy bonuses with their allies and they can choose favored Terrains as well as favored enemies.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Fizilbert
Learned Scribe

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2009 :  17:59:38  Show Profile  Visit Fizilbert's Homepage Send Fizilbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm in my own cave with my 2E books, keeping the fire burning.



Fiz
Level 10 Vice-president
World of Elethril
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Julian Grimm
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2009 :  06:30:42  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the 2e thinking the 3.X neighbors are being loud.
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2009 :  17:40:44  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot

*Hands Froglegg a mug of stout*

Right, so the Calishite dancing girls are down the tunnel on the left, the frolicking elven boys are down the tunnel on the right, whichever suits your fancy.


Thanks

John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4436 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  08:39:13  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


There's a reason for that view: Mystra having Chosen was a way of limiting her power, and distributing it in case something happened to the Weave. The idea that only Mystra would have Chosen was from Ed.

That said, the Chosen were always meant to be NPCs, and specifically background characters. Becoming a Chosen of any deity should have never been an in-game option.



I agree, but yet there it was printed in the FRCS and even with the +4 level adjustment, it was still really powerful. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20.

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Might interest you that Pathfinder's created a feat called Master Craftsman which allows characters with Craft/Profession skills to use their skill rank to substitute for Caster Level to gain the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Create Wondrous Item feats, and be able to create those magic items.

.....

Again, Pathfinder has corrected a lot of this. Barbarian's rage goes by number of rounds (non-consecutive) per day instead of times per day and they now get Rage Powers that allow them to do all kinds of things from bite attacks to darkvision while raging to bonuses to saves. Fighter still gets the feats, but now they also get a Bravery bonus to fear, Armor bonuses and Weapon Training bonuses. Paladins now choose between a special mount or weapon bonuses, their casting is based off Charisma instead of Wisdom and they get new Mercy powers that help them heal conditions with their Lay on Hands power. Finally Rangers can choose between an Animal companion or sharing their Favored Enemy bonuses with their allies and they can choose favored Terrains as well as favored enemies.


I think Paizo and the Pathfinder version is a huge upgrade and improvement to 3.5 and it's a system I could easily play and adapt to any setting. That being said, I just don't have money for both systems and I've already devoted too much into 4E. Also, as much as Pathfinder has paved the way for balance, the problems still persist with the core "power-curve" mechanic that 3E has. If and when I do play 3E/3.5/Pathfinder and play a fighter/meat-shield character rest assured the Tome of Battle will make an appearance and probably dominate the mechanics of that character. The biggest disappointment I found was that the ToB came too late and there just was no more support for the book or it's system. A shame, because you really could explore SOO much more with it than what was made.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  09:32:25  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Breaking the silence...slightly...

Diffan, why is it so important that melee-types dish out as much as wizards/sorcerers? The entire balancing affair is the one thing pen'n'paper RPGs should not emulate from computer games. The equal-damage issue works for Diablo and co, because it is meant as a solo-game as well, so the toons need to have an equal power output in order to appeal to everyone. Pen'n'paper is a collective effort, the fighter/barbarian/paladin or whatever can withstand powerful blows, the arcane types can't, and that is the way it should be, otherwise every frakking character can heal, kill, soak just as good as everyone else... and frankly, where's the fun in that?

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4436 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  11:04:02  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

Breaking the silence...slightly...

Diffan, why is it so important that melee-types dish out as much as wizards/sorcerers? The entire balancing affair is the one thing pen'n'paper RPGs should not emulate from computer games. The equal-damage issue works for Diablo and co, because it is meant as a solo-game as well, so the toons need to have an equal power output in order to appeal to everyone. Pen'n'paper is a collective effort, the fighter/barbarian/paladin or whatever can withstand powerful blows, the arcane types can't, and that is the way it should be, otherwise every frakking character can heal, kill, soak just as good as everyone else... and frankly, where's the fun in that?



I've actually found that melee type character usually dish out more DPR (damage per round) than that of their arcane companions. Take Delayed Blast Fireball which max is 20d6. On average that's 60 points of damage or a full 120 if it's maximized. Any high level fighter can probably dish out that much with the right build.

But damage dealing aside, for me it's the fun of leveling up a character. For melee type characters, the process remains pretty redunant (espically for the fighter and barbarian who don't have access to spells) in that you gain HP, possible save progression and another attack. That' it. Where as your buddies are all poring over books and Dragon articles for different spells and what-not. They get to try out all these cool and new things where as I'm toiling away swing after swing. To me that = yawn. This application can even be applied to classes such as the rogue where a wizard can just buy a wand of Knock or Find Traps. And then there are spells like Mordenkainen's(sp?) Transformation which makes a wizard just as effective as a fighter in a pinch. I've found that by the later levels of play, a fighter becomes more and more needless. And when you throw in players who optimize or who really know how to build a powerful character, it becomes even less useful. At least with 4E, the combat aspect is more centered around group/team play and roles. Yea, wizards aren't pumping out 30-60 damage per round but they defintely have a very important part to play in minimizing enemies movement, implementing control of the battle-field, and de-buffing enemies at every turn.

I think a big problem many people have with 4E is this very reason. Now, they're suped-up wizard isn't owning the encounter with mass effects and save-or-die spells. Now, the cleric isn't ending the battle with a lich at one go with a critical Turn Undead attempt and the Greater turning effect. And yes, I realize that I can play other classes but normally it's the meat-sheild that no one wants to play, pretty much for this reason. Thats where balance becomes key for everyone at the table having a great time. At least thats the way I see it.

Now, when you compare the balance in 4E between the classes, it's only between those of the same role that it becomes pretty standard. Most fighter powers of one level will only vary slightly from that of say a paladin's powers or a swordmages. But then effects come into play and thats how the class's unique abilites really make the difference shine. For example, a swordmage's marking ability allows him/her the ability to teleport all over the field where as the paladin's marking ability inflicts straight radiant damage. The same abilities having two different effects which plays well to the role-playing aspect of the game.

Edited by - Diffan on 24 Dec 2009 07:51:35
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  12:42:36  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

But damage dealing aside, for me it's the fun of leveling up a character.




Not to sound snarky, but above statement is the core of the problem between roleplayers and roll-players... maybe I'm just too oldschool, even tho I play 3.5. My players are on the verge of reaching lvl 13, sure the bulk have started at 10 or 11, but the core two players have played their toons since 2001, you wouldn't be happy in my games...

now going silent again, shaking my head the way old people sometimes do

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3243 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  13:15:37  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't worry, Mace. You ain't alone...

*shakes his head*

(Never mind that while the Casters pore over the books for spells, the Barbarian can pour over the books for Rage Powers and the Fighter can pour over books for feats-22 feats for a human fighter at level 20 in Pathfinder.)

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4436 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  14:30:08  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

But damage dealing aside, for me it's the fun of leveling up a character.




Not to sound snarky, but above statement is the core of the problem between roleplayers and roll-players... maybe I'm just too oldschool, even tho I play 3.5. My players are on the verge of reaching lvl 13, sure the bulk have started at 10 or 11, but the core two players have played their toons since 2001, you wouldn't be happy in my games...

now going silent again, shaking my head the way old people sometimes do



No, not snarky at all . I do love good role-playing and I have absoutley no problems where thats all we would do in a session. I have a character (human paladin) that i've played starting since late AD&D through 3/3.5 and he's only level 12. That's not the issuse. I'm talking from a strictly game mechanics stand-point. Where I think 4E really shines is the fact that combat is so removed from role-playing that it gives ALOT of freedom for characters to really express themselves without having to show that on a character sheet or through the use of resources. More freedom where it comes to RP is great in my book. If your story is alot of fun and involved, then I think i'd have a lot of fun playing a character in your game.

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Don't worry, Mace. You ain't alone...

*shakes his head*

(Never mind that while the Casters pore over the books for spells, the Barbarian can pour over the books for Rage Powers and the Fighter can pour over books for feats-22 feats for a human fighter at level 20 in Pathfinder.)


Yes, Pathfinder did wonders for the Barbarian class (and made it pretty much useless for level-dipping btw) and the fact that the class has alot more options is always a boon. As for the fighter, while I can respect the value for the feats they receive, they can only take you so far or make you that much of a well-rounded soldier and, to me, that still doesn't add up to the seemingly limitless abilities of a spellcaster. Like I said, and it might be true for Pathfinder, the usefulness of melee-type characters still dwindles at higher levels of play when cleric, druid, and wiz/sor spells mimic other classes abilities.

I'll give you a good example. I had a cleric of Tyr (cleric 5/ordained champion 4) who not only was the primary frontline soldier but a healer as well. He did both so well, we had no need for an actual fighter and I casted all sorts of spells. With one character, I was able to function as two. Now how much fun would it be for another player to be playing a straight figher and still be shown up by a cleric. That would make me feel pretty pointless. I'm not saying it's always like this in our groups or that it's fairly common. I'm just pointing out an experience I had as an example.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3243 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  14:45:14  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Disruptive
Spellbreaker

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3243 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  14:52:14  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, what the Fighter gets:

Bravery
Armor Training Reduces Armor Check and Dex penalties every 4 levels
Weapon Training Attack and Damage bonuses
Armor Mastery Damage Reduction when wearing armor or carrying a shield
Weapon Mastery Criticals automatically confirm and Crit multiplier increased for chose weapon.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Fizilbert
Learned Scribe

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2009 :  23:44:17  Show Profile  Visit Fizilbert's Homepage Send Fizilbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, please excuse the dumb question from the guy with the 2E books, but what the hell is Pathfinder?



Fiz
Level 10 Vice-president
World of Elethril
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36797 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  00:02:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fizilbert

Ok, please excuse the dumb question from the guy with the 2E books, but what the hell is Pathfinder?



Pathfinder is the new, revamped version of the 3.5 rules. It's made by Paizo. It's got a lot of fans, and their setting also has a lot of fans -- and Paizo has snagged more than one former WotC person, too.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Julian Grimm
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  00:05:17  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And more than one disgruntled FR fan.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31726 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  00:35:23  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Fizilbert

Ok, please excuse the dumb question from the guy with the 2E books, but what the hell is Pathfinder?



Pathfinder is the new, revamped version of the 3.5 rules. It's made by Paizo. It's got a lot of fans, and their setting also has a lot of fans -- and Paizo has snagged more than one former WotC person, too.

Fizil, see here:- http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Julian Grimm
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  03:18:20  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pathfinder is great for those that want to continue with 3.X. How I wish us 2e holdouts had something like it.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4436 Posts

Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  08:00:08  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Disruptive
Spellbreaker

.......

Also, what the Fighter gets:

Bravery
Armor Training Reduces Armor Check and Dex penalties every 4 levels
Weapon Training Attack and Damage bonuses
Armor Mastery Damage Reduction when wearing armor or carrying a shield
Weapon Mastery Criticals automatically confirm and Crit multiplier increased for chose weapon.


The feats are pretty nice as long as the spellcaster stays within melee range or doesn't have spells enacted like stoneskin or fly. With the amout of feats a Fighter gets, those are definitly viable options for pretty much any build.

The fighter abilities are definitly something to look at and it gives a resaon for people playing a fighter to stay in that class and not multiclass. The question I have is, will prestige classes Pathfinder offers allow those classes to keep the upgrade of those powers as they progress further down the PrC path? If so, then that would be awesome.






quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Pathfinder is the new, revamped version of the 3.5 rules. It's made by Paizo. It's got a lot of fans, and their setting also has a lot of fans


Yea, I really love the setting and the way they emphasise how monsters act. Very fresh. And they do a wonderful job at upgrading the 3.5 ruleset.


Edited by - Diffan on 24 Dec 2009 08:00:41
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Fizilbert
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Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  11:59:51  Show Profile  Visit Fizilbert's Homepage Send Fizilbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info. Since I never played 3.X, I guess this whole Pathfinder movement went unnoticed by me.

I'm glad to see some faithful people decided to continue the 3.5 ruleset, even if I dont agree with that ruleset.

In my mind, D&D just hasn't been the same since WoTC took it over.



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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  12:06:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fizilbert

In my mind, D&D just hasn't been the same since WoTC took it over.



D&D might have become just a memory by now, if WotC hadn't taken them over. TSR was dead in the water.

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Julian Grimm
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Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  17:12:55  Show Profile Send Julian Grimm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While this is true, I have to wonder if truly was for the best. I was pretty much OK with what was going on before 3.5 but it seems like afterward things changed so much that the game did not resemble the one I loved. Now, I have no idea what the game and the Realms have become.
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Hawkins
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Posted - 24 Dec 2009 :  18:09:58  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm more of the opinion that while WotC did good things to revise and revitalize D&D, what they really did that helped was make the d20 Open Gaming License. Then, when they really futzed up (IMO) with 4e, it gave a third-party company (Paizo) the ability to continue to make products that appeal to more of the "old guard" (a presupposition on my part) than their newfangled product.

I also think that WotC itself would not seem quite as imposing if Hasbro had not bought them. That is when they really took the downturn, was when they were bought out and decisions were made by bean-counters rather than the design teams (another presupposition on my part) and became a cold, uncaring corporation.

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