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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 22:40:00
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HOLY COW !!!! what did they do to the realms?
I think my ale is off a bit...oh miss....refill.
When did the time line jump again? Teach me to lose my internet.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 23:09:35
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What did they do? If I say they gang-raped it I might get some heavy objection, so I won't say they gang-raped the setting... they just treated it very unkindly...
What do you mean by time line jump exactly? The Earth year when they cooked up the nonsense or the DR year when the nonsense was...um...forced onto the Realms?
One is 2007/2008, the other happens over a period of time starting at 1375/76 and fulminating in 1385 DR |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 23:18:06
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The new setting? Ignore it and stay with the 3.X one worked very well to me.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 23:36:23
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*holding out ale jug*
"Ah...a new arrival in the cave..." |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 23:45:45
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AHHH!!! I see (granted its blurry...I'm on me third ale).
Is this a result of the dreaded 4th edition I've heard so much(and not much good) about? |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 23:58:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Teneck
AHHH!!! I see (granted its blurry...I'm on me third ale).
Is this a result of the dreaded 4th edition I've heard so much(and not much good) about?
Well, you could say that... or you could say that some people think a massive history and detailed background with many gods and lots of stories that went before with people who could do the PCs' job all the time is just too much for some people... be they new player, designer or author... as I said elsewhere, thank goodness WotC never did work on a middle ages campaign... the history would have called for an immediate change to the world... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 00:02:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...thank goodness WotC never did work on a middle ages campaign... the history would have called for an immediate change to the world..
Teneck...I heartily recommend Mace“s rants on the subject...heartily... |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 00:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
The new setting? Ignore it and stay with the 3.X one worked very well to me.
I recommend the purchase of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide at least. There are still some useful bits of lore to be found in that particular tome. And the ol' Bearded One's work on Returned Abeir, especially, is an example of some of his finest RPG work. Plus, it's just begging to be established as the foundation of a beyond-Faerūn based campaign. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 03:26:56
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I must say Mace, that your most recent rant on your journal is a bit...
aggresive. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 04:13:23
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Stay in your cave. I'm joining you directly and bringing fresh ale by the barrel.
:) |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 05:57:26
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| Did you wakeup right now? |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 10:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I must say Mace, that your most recent rant on your journal is a bit...
aggresive.
Well, considering the topic, can it be otherwise? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 10:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...thank goodness WotC never did work on a middle ages campaign... the history would have called for an immediate change to the world..
Teneck...I heartily recommend Mace“s rants on the subject...heartily...
Dart is referring to me rants here on the site, not my LJ, though it's worth a read as well...I think |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 10:57:18
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Cool, someone new to welcome into the cave. We've got it pretty nicely decked out now, so pull up a chair!
Unlike Sage, I think that buying the FRCG would be a waste of money, as it has no redeeming value whatsoever. Better uses of your money include sending it to Nigerian Princes, Burning it, purchasing the brilliant Pathfinder Campaign Setting, or maybe getting the Twilight books. It's got a better realised universe then the FRCG does, at the very least. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 14:08:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Cool, someone new to welcome into the cave. We've got it pretty nicely decked out now, so pull up a chair!
Unlike Sage, I think that buying the FRCG would be a waste of money, as it has no redeeming value whatsoever. Better uses of your money include sending it to Nigerian Princes, Burning it, purchasing the brilliant Pathfinder Campaign Setting, or maybe getting the Twilight books. It's got a better realised universe then the FRCG does, at the very least.
Buy Lottery tickets. That way, if you win the Powerball, you can at least make an offer to Hasbro to buy the Realms IP. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 14:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Unlike Sage, I think that buying the FRCG would be a waste of money, as it has no redeeming value whatsoever. Better uses of your money include sending it to Nigerian Princes, Burning it, purchasing the brilliant Pathfinder Campaign Setting, or maybe getting the Twilight books. It's got a better realised universe then the FRCG does, at the very least.
Well, I really only suggested the purchase of the FRCG so that the scribe could make a complete and informed decision -- and judge for him/herself whether to fully establish an active interest in the post-Spellplague Realms material.
I'd much rather scribes dismiss the FRCG after having read it, instead of relying on opinion and [sometimes] incomplete theories posted elsewhere about some of its content.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 14:48:23
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| Cave? I thought it was an entrance to the Underdark! Else it would get very crowded ^_^ |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 15:40:23
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Sage, I'm all for being open-minded, but I think that's a bit too far. I don't think you should have to buy something in order to decide if you want it (on the contrary, I think you should look into something before buying). So I'd say to look for the previews on the WotC website (that were posted in the lead up to 4e), browse the book in the store, and also ask around before spending a chunk of change on something that supports a business viewpoint that you might not like.
In addition, I'd just say that a few bits of lore might not be worth it either. If you want something for Toril beyond Faerun, there are other sources with potentially more value for the money (there was a discussion thread here about Beyond Countless Doorways not long ago, for example). |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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RedneckBadgerLord
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 16:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Teneck
HOLY COW !!!! what did they do to the realms?
I think my ale is off a bit...oh miss....refill.
When did the time line jump again? Teach me to lose my internet.
(Brings in a pizza from the Yawning Portal and some coke cola for younger veiwers) Agreed man, I'm in the process of completely revamping what they did to the realms. (Grabs a chair as he takes off his hat) Y'know, this'd make a good RP. |
Redwall. Drizzt. Kentucky. Enough said.
I was weaned on 2E Baldur's Gate. Learned 3.5E, and can't stand 4E WoF. (Though I try not to mess up canon too badly). |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 16:39:27
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~~Eyes the coca-cola to see if it's from Mexico ('cuz they still make it with sugar there... )~~ |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 16 Jun 2009 16:39:47 |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 19:12:29
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Well thanks for welcoming me to the cave all. I have some extra ale mugs and a few Pin ups of Baldur's Gates Ale maidens calender.
I actually went and reviewed some 4th ed stuff, I find that it would be ok material for some one new to the game or specifically new to the FR.
However I have been feeding this addiction for 30 years now, and a watered down version just doesn't suit me at all. I LOVE all my FR 3.5 stuff and will most likely never budge from the cave...so to all who welcomed me thank you...and no worries...I don't take up much space...and I'm a lightweight when it come to ale.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 19:54:47
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~~chips some rock from the back wall and finds a vein of silvery metal.~~
No fears! Apparently this cave has an abundance of mineable material from the Paizo mountains! |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 21:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, I really only suggested the purchase of the FRCG so that the scribe could make a complete and informed decision -- and judge for him/herself whether to fully establish an active interest in the post-Spellplague Realms material.
I'd much rather scribes dismiss the FRCG after having read it, instead of relying on opinion and [sometimes] incomplete theories posted elsewhere about some of its content.
To be fair, as our esteemed Sage has pointed out before, Ed of the Greenwoods work on Returned Abeir is a fine read and could be adapted into a pre-4E campaign...but other than that...*whistles*. Although I“d also recommend flipping through it at least, to have an idea whether it might be something for the person...can“t recommend the purchase, though...I vastly prefer the cave to the Spellplague-ravaged-outside of it.
*walk over to inspect the Paizo mountain vein more closely* |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 22:05:57
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Please..
Not another 4th edition discussion...
Ohhh god... Why? Why??? Whhyyyyyyy???
*** You have your right to say what you wanna say, I'm just kidding guys... But I can't take it anymore... |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2009 : 22:57:11
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
Please..
Not another 4th edition discussion...
Ohhh god... Why? Why??? Whhyyyyyyy???
*** You have your right to say what you wanna say, I'm just kidding guys... But I can't take it anymore...
Sorry but I am a bit behind the times, My nephew(whom I taught to play 10 years ago)is all excited about 4th ed, so I thought I would get some other opinions besides my own.
*Grabs a pick and helps Ashe dig, "Beats cave entrance guard duty"* |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2009 : 01:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
To be fair, as our esteemed Sage has pointed out before, Ed of the Greenwoods work on Returned Abeir is a fine read and could be adapted into a pre-4E campaign...but other than that...*whistles*.
Aye, as Ed's notes on using Returned Abeir as part of a pre-Spellplague Realms campaign, suggest:-
"Hi, Wooly! This is a great topic, and, yes, Returned Abeir can function just fine as a long-unseen continent of Toril circa 1350s through 1370s with almost no foreground changes - - that is, alterations to what mortal adventurers see around them and experience - - at all.
Returned Abeir becomes the identical continent of Laerakond, well southwest of Evermeet, thats been isolated from direct contact with the distant continent of Faerūn because, yes, the Dawn Titans have been imprisoned there after a long-ago Godswar, behind a mighty Weave-warping divine magic enacted by the familiar Faerūnian gods we all know agreeing and working together (under the direction of Ao, if you use Ao in your campaign).
{If for some reason you want Mystra gone or diminished in your campaign, she could have sacrificed herself to BECOME this magic, retaining power and influence in Faerūn only through her Chosen and her church, as more and more of her divine energy was sapped, as the years passed, in binding and holding the Titans, who are increasingly able to devour it; see hereafter. Or perhaps, if you want to jettison Ao or specific deities from the published pantheon, they made this sacrifice.}
Even deities - - such as Mask, Bane, and Cyric - - who customarily cheat and manipulate to get their own ways in dealings with their fellow gods have no interest in working treachery on this particular deal among the gods, because the Titans, unleashed, are a direct and malicious threat to the gods of Faerūn and all their mortal worshippers. The Titans gain power not through worship, but by devouring souls and life-essence (godhood being their first and foremost desired meal). Letting the Titans go free would eventually mean no deities, and a Toril stripped of all life - - literally bare, windblown earth, with not a plant or beast left.
The Titans entered Realmspace through a rift inadvertently caused by the elven High Magic that cloaked Evermeet, stealing in through the back door so to speak, so their point of entry was behind (farther from Faerūn than) Evermeet. By chance, it was in the northern part of Laerakond.
Where dragons were already resident, and battling each other in struggles that had long ago reduced them to few in number and forced their conflicts into contests of etiquette, influence, strict rules, and fighting through proxies (lesser beasts, right down to their dragonborn slaves) - - lest their continuing struggles result in no food left for any dragon, or their destruction at the hands of the vastly less powerful but numerically far more numerous other races of Laerakond (such as the giants, humans, et al).
{For a hint of what this dragon society might have been like, recall the evil Skeksis of the DARK CRYSTAL, and also look to a certain contest introduced in the opening pages of the forthcoming - - and great - - Erin Evans novel THE GOD CATCHER, fifth in the ED GREENWOOD PRESENTS WATERDEEP series.}
The arrival of the Titans shattered this status quo and awakened savage battle among the dragons once more - - and the arrival of the deities of Faerūn, alerted by the shockwaves sent through the Weave by Titans hurling magic at dragons who presumed to defy them, and the subsequent battle between gods and Titans, destroyed much of Tymanther. The dragonborn won free of their dragon overlords, the dragons were reduced to a mere handful, much of Laerakond north of The Snouts (the capes projecting into the Dragon Sea east of Marrauk and southwest of Stormhelm) was left a magic-ravaged chaos (not lifeless, but a turmoil of destruction and raging wild magic and wild growth and mutation spawned by it, of monsters wandering the land and no order but that of fang and claw) . . . and the Titans were magically bound into stasis, in deep caverns blasted out beneath Fimbrul and Relmaur.
Where they remain to this day, already awake and scheming but unable to win free of their immobility, not daring to try anything too drastic - - like crashing their spell-chains against each other violently and repeatedly - - for fear of collapsing the caverns around them and perishing under the weight of the mountains above. Yet seeking to reach out and rule all Toril from their prisons, by means insidious. They managed much during the Time of Troubles, luring many creatures to them through dream-visions sent forth while the gods were walking Faerūn, and their power is increasing, as rumors spread in Laerakond lure more and more adventurers and power-seekers to them, to this day.
So we have a longtime inability to pass from Faerūn to Laerakond and vice versa, except through a few secret gates (portals), because the elves wanted Evermeet cloaked not just from Faerūn, but also from Laerakond, and for years used lesser magics to aid and abet the magical experimentations of the great ruling dragons of Laerakond.
The dragons were alarmed by some ships arriving at their shores (from Faerūn and elsewhere), and - - after enslaving the crews, from whom many of the humans of their continent are descended - - raised magical storms in the seas around Laerakond that made sailing to and from it foolishly perilous.
Which left legends in Faerūn of a lost land somewhere across the seas, a vast land of terrible dragons and great riches, that a few sailors found long ago, but that none can find today.
Until recently, if you the DM want it to. Perhaps the Time of Troubles, or the deaths and shifting portfolios and power alliances among the gods since (if you have had any of those happen in your campaign) or any of your own tinkerings with the pantheon, have weakened or ended the storms at sea zones, and a few intrepid seacaptains have voyaged between one continent to the other, and back. (Or not, if you prefer; I designed both the continents of Faerūn and Laerakond to function perfectly in isolation, each as a campaign setting.)
Note that none of this (the what happened ideas I advanced above) invalidates whats written in the FRCG as Abeirs Past. Those published words merely become the locally-accepted version of things; what most folk of Laerakond believe happened before the days we know now.
The Titans become the source of Shars recent success, if you want them to, and of the Shadow Weave, if you want to use it, and can even be the backers of Shade (the Princes may or may not be aware of this). They can also be the source of any monsters or cults you want to add to the Realms (even dont fit elements, such as the dragon kings of DARK SUN or something from RUNEQUEST or another fantasy setting or game, that you just want to experiment with as one-offs), or hitherto-unknown links (portals) connecting the Realms with, say, Golarion, or Eberron, or the fictional settings of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE or the WHEEL OF TIME or the setting of the Eddings BELGARIAD and MALLOREON or whatever youd prefer.
The point is that the Titans are bound, and although they may individually be too strong to destroy (and their destruction, akin to an atomic explosion of unprecedented proportions, may be too damaging to Toril to dare attempt), they dare not break free and act openly, because the gods will swarm them and imprison them again, in (already explicitly threatened) greater torment. So instead, they work through proxies, seeking to sew discontent and warfare and mistrust, to weaken rulers and order and increase violence and the wild right across the face of the Realms, by cults here and monster breedings there. Perhaps they are behind the deepspawn, or the rise of a beholder realm, or both. They are certainly behind cults, cabals, and attempted treason and usurpations everywhere, and seeking to subvert existing merchant costers, brotherhoods, and other established power groups (the Harper, from within? the War Wizards? the Red Wizards?).
And they are certainly behind expedition after expedition of adventurers, both duped good bands and grasping evildoers (or adventurers hired by power-seekers in Tarmalune and your choice of the cities and lands of southern Laerakond) into Relmaur and Fimbrul, seeking to find the deep cavern of this or that Titan, and physically free them. Perhaps the imprisoned Titans are aware of a way to substitute a captured dragon or wizard (or even some or all of the adventurers who are rescuing them) for themselves in the bindings, to prevent gods whose attentions are now elsewhere from knowing that a Titan has won free . . .
Ah, such delicious cans of worms, all opened up in a row before you. Your choice of which to partake of, and how much, and when.
Dig in! :}
So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms and Laerakond and lots of crazy, sneaky, fun campaign ideas like this!
GREAT question, Wooly!
love to all,
THO"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2009 : 03:42:33
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~~Looks up from his digging at the back of the cave~~
Woo-hoo! GM Screen is coming out in September! What makes this better than the other 20 screens you already own? Three words: Hardcover Book Stock. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2009 : 16:30:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
~~Looks up from his digging at the back of the cave~~
Woo-hoo! GM Screen is coming out in September! What makes this better than the other 20 screens you already own? Three words: Hardcover Book Stock.
I still use the old box set Ravenloft one..lol...kinda tattered but still cool...sometimes I use the 3.5 one ...but only for the refernce tables. |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
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Taking my 3.5 books and hiding in a cave
