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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 10:23:00
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Just reread it recently and I am curious.
First off. Silverfire is supposed to be magically unblockable as far as I remember. Second, Silverfire has drastic consequences when it comes into contact with Shadow magic right? I.E the veil tearing, forcing Elminster to go to hell to seal it.
How is it during the battle between the chosen and the Shades that Khelben Blackstaff fired off Silverfire at Telamont Tanthul, and Tanthul was able to erect a shadow magic spellshield that blocked Silverfire?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 20:19:39
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Because at the time they figured shadow magic was cool but they didn't have the rules firmed up on it at all?
No rules every supported how the Shadow Weave interacted with the Weave, other than the fact that the Shadow Weave was hard to detect, etc.
The novels seemed to portray the Weave and the Shadow Weave almost like mater and anti-matter, which, to be honest, appealed to me more than how the interaction seemed to be portrayed in other products (i.e. that the Shadow Weave was the "dark side" of the Weave, implying that the Weave was the "light side" instead of being, itself, a neutral source of magical energy).
I think one of the biggest failings of the 3rd edition era was that there seemed to be an ever shifting concept of how exactly the Shadow Weave was suppose to work, right up to the end of the era. |
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Grumpyoldmage
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 05:18:59
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Personally, I always felt that the concept of the shadow weave and the lost city of shadow was a bit weak. I think that they could have done so much more with a possible Netherese story arc. Alas, I am a huge fan of Netheril, since the old box set.
In my latest forgotten realms game, I had the ruins of a fallen Netherese city that had crashed in the high ice become rediscovered. It was a cool dungeon crawl, with old Netherese magic and an odd dungeon, since the entire city was buried in ice and tilted at an odd angle.
Anyways, just my two cents. :) |
Quote of Karsus - "The Elves started this when they tried to steal the Nether Scrolls. They are a culture of the past, who's idea's are as antiquated as their magic." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 06:24:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumpyoldmage
Personally, I always felt that the concept of the shadow weave and the lost city of shadow was a bit weak. I think that they could have done so much more with a possible Netherese story arc. Alas, I am a huge fan of Netheril, since the old box set.
Well, the bit about Shade disappearing was from the old boxed set...
I do think there was much squandered potential here, though. I really expected the Return of Shade to be the event that -- much like the Time of Troubles did for 2E -- intro'ed 3E and gave us an explanation for any in-setting changes.
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Grumpyoldmage
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 06:46:21
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quote:
Well, the bit about Shade disappearing was from the old boxed set...
True, I can't argue with that. :P It just seemed to me to be sort of an "easy out." I was left feeling like they didn't put much thought into the whole thing, then had an issue later deciding how the shadow weave was going to work. It was interesting, if a bit overly simple for my tastes. |
Quote of Karsus - "The Elves started this when they tried to steal the Nether Scrolls. They are a culture of the past, who's idea's are as antiquated as their magic." |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 07:14:44
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Silver Fire--as per the rules--does breach/overcome all magical barriers automatically. However--as per the rules--it is a supernatural ability and thus in its offensive form (a blast of flame) it could be blocked by an antimagic field. Although the alternative function of the blast (a cone shaped cloud) can be used to restore dead magic zones and dispel an antimagic field, the damaging blast does not appear share that property by the raw interpretation of the rules.
Therefore Telamont could have cast an antimagic field in a desperate maneuver to suppress the silver fire attack.
To further drive that point, it is worth mentioning that immediately after he casts a spell to block the silver fire the enclave begins to tumble and fall, and Vala manages to hack Telamont's arm off with her darksword. It therefore makes more sense that he had cast an antimagic field, since the negative reprecussions of casting it meant all of his magic (including his spells, protective magic items, and whatever spell he used to halt the falling enclave) would have been suppressed.
In any event, if the events of series had been reproduced at a 3E D&D game table then the Netherese would never have returned to begin with, and Evereska never would have been besieged by the Phaerimm:
* The Sharn Wall never would have been breached (no wild magic surges occur when Weave/Shadow Weave spells collide)
* The Elven High Mages would have been able to halt any Phaerimm advance, without Netherese aid (the lowest level at which you can quality for and benefit from the PrC is 24th. Melegaunt is 20th level)
* Elminster would have effortlessly stopped Melegaunt in the Dire Wood--regardless of Wild Magic or Phaerimm interference (Wild Magic is CL check of DC 15+ Spell level, which is nothing for him to overcome. Meanwhile Phaerimm have no innate spell absorption/reflection powers, and any Phaerimm powerful enough to locate/attack Elminster would have likewise located/attacked Melegaunt first.
* The Shade Princes would never have seized the Karsestone from Wulgreth. More specifically, the Wulgreth who happens to be a DEMILICH.
...and the list can go further from there.
However Troy Denning does not really deserve any blame in this matter. It seems fairly clear that the final rules for the Shadow Weave were likely not in place when he began writing the trilogy, and I presume it took a fair amount of time to write it. Much of the series seems to have been written through more of a 2E lens, with the Shadow Weave being an element unquantified in the rules yet. When viewed with that perspective it seems more in line with the rules, at least for the things we did know about. Lastly, while I generally have a love-hate relationship with those books, I daresay several of the events within were a bit more rules-realistic than many other novels in the FR series I have read/endured. |
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Old question Regarding Archwizards: Spoiler
