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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 14:49:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
Its a sad day indeed when you get attacked by a My Little Pony :)
Hmf, just be glad they are finally out in the open. I have suspected those small suckers for years. Devil spawn that's what they are; and in league with Carebears, Gummy Bears and the Smurfs evil cousins.
Come to think of it I have a feeling that they were behind the fall of TSR also. Ed should be protected if he starts seeing small pink horses near the house.
OK, to much Caffeine. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 14:55:54
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| What about Gloworms? Aren't they allied with My Little Pony?? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 15:06:47
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Transformers that turn into GI joe vehicles dropping Gloworm paratroopers atop My Little Pony battlehorses.
...horror.... |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 15:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Yes, I do feel that it's a definite snake pit at the WotC boards. Every day I feel closer and closer to closing and sealing my account.
I'm down to going there once a day for about five minutes, and I keep thinking about just saying F-it altogether.
They just started a new 'Osse Project' thread over there that I am mildly interested in, so that's keeping me onboard... for now.
The whole mindset over there is wack - the 4er's speaking against "old FR", and then asking all kinds of questions about what it was like. 
How did they dislike something so much that the knew almost nothing about? Its bizarre... they have to reference older sources just to play, because there isn't enough information out there about 4e.
And now the older sources have been pulled as well...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 15:58:44
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| Unfortunately, MT speaks the truth. I honestly don't know why I keep going back. I think it might be I'm like one of those old California forty-niner miners. Everyone says it's played out, but I keep searching for the odd gold nugget. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 17:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Ya know, I've been thinking about this post that Chris Perkins posted on ENworld about a week ago. His idea was for Wizards to take the old material and set it up as a print on demand option. It really, to me, sounded like a good idea because it would allow the old material to be reprinted for those who want a physical book.
You better not be messin' with us with this Kuje 
If they ever do that, I will be so exceited that I will smash my laptop to pieces as I will no longer need it for anything 
Nay, I'm not messing with you. Green Ronin has started to do that for their 3e material. Chris started a thread about the idea and it seems that everyone thinks it's a good idea. Now, will Wizards decide to do that. I have no idea.
And on a related note: People are already finding a pirated copy of Arcane Power on the net. GRIN. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 17:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And on a related note: People are already finding a pirated copy of Arcane Power on the net. GRIN.
Ahh... nice to see that pulling legal copies have prevented piracy. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 18:14:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And on a related note: People are already finding a pirated copy of Arcane Power on the net. GRIN.
OH. DEAR ME. WHAT A SHOCK.
/sarcasm
Really, I can't even blame people. If I played 4e, I certainly wouldn't pay for it. ;) |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 18:31:16
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Yo ho ho and a bottle of rhum to go with that digital copy of Arcane Power.
Alas, I'll be buying the hard copy anyways, despite how easy it is to get a free digital one. I wonder if it released early somewhere or if Captain Hook works for Wizards??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 19:14:36
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| I wonder if anyone at WotC sees the irony of this at all. We all knew that future books would be available for download through illegal means whether they had pulled the legal ones or not. But did they? I want to believe that they really aren't that short-sighted, but all evidence points to them being so. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 22 Apr 2009 19:16:27 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 19:33:30
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I got curious and went looking around the net for the response from pirates, and I found this gem. It's a direct quote: "This no-pdf was terrible move All it is going to do is making us have uglier pdfs hehehe"
So yeah, if their intent was to slow down piracy, it failed. Hard. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 20:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
Its a sad day indeed when you get attacked by a My Little Pony :)
Hmf, just be glad they are finally out in the open. I have suspected those small suckers for years. Devil spawn that's what they are; and in league with Carebears, Gummy Bears and the Smurfs evil cousins.
Come to think of it I have a feeling that they were behind the fall of TSR also. Ed should be protected if he starts seeing small pink horses near the house.
OK, to much Caffeine.
I don't know why this suddenly brought this to mind, but if anyone has seen Robot Chicken before they have the 4 apocalypse ponies! Maybe they were closer to the truth, then we thought! |
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Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 20:45:20
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| So I am really liking the idea of Paizo picking up the D&D brand name. I have no idea if it would happen. But if it did, do you think they would go back to using 3e? I would love to see them get it and then punt Eberon off the map.....oh sorry that was my inside voice. Anyway, from what I have seen, they put out some really good stuff. Its just a shame that its not FR. |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 20:53:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
Really, I can't even blame people. If I played 4e, I certainly wouldn't pay for it.
For me, to the contrary.
If I was going to play 4e, I would gladly purchase all the 4e products.
As it stands, I only want to scan-through the stuff to see what its about, and to me, thats simply not worth paying for.
And yes, all 4e material is available somewhere two days after its released, so stopping downloads of old-edition material isn't going to stop anything at all.
If I plan on playing with something, I buy a physical copy of it. When I'm gaming I need to have the books in front of me, and pdf's just don't cut-it. I don't think that piracy really cuts into sales (of books) nearly as much as they think, and not anywhere near as much as it does with music. I figure most of the people downloading gaming material would have never purchased those sources anyway.
In a strange sort of way, book-piracy may even increase sales (for RPGs), or at the very least, be a 'break even' deal. I can think of at least FIVE 3e sourcebooks that I didn't plan to buy that I went out and purchased after looking at pdf's of them. I figure any time a D&D campaign gets underway, a few people will be using pdf's, but if they stick with it, they'll eventually want physical books, and others that join-in will probably buy the books outright - ergo, if that game running on pdfs didn't exist, many of the people who became new players would have never been introduced to the game and made purchases.
Free material (weather legal or not) spreads knowledge of things around the web and around the world like wildfire, so for every 100 people that download pirated crap, maybe five will become real players and will eventually spend money on products. If the other 95 people would never spend their money anyway, that turns into a net gain for the company, not a loss.
REAL hardcore gamers - the kind that sticks with the game for twenty years and not get bored after one - WILL buy the sourcebooks regardless. Unless everyone at the table has laptops, you need those books to play. Those pirated pdf's could be creating massive numbers of new gamers and fueling a gaming renaissance, for all we know.
I think WotC's problem is that they are reactive, and not pro-active. Their recent decisions all appear to be extremely short-sighted. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Apr 2009 20:56:47 |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 21:29:55
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| yeah, I think Lord Karsus keeps track of the posts made on their FR forum, which peaks at about 10 posts a day. Which is tiny when you think it's their main product forum for FR. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 21:34:12
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| I know I like to have the pdfs as a 'back-up' to books I own as well. The search capability has sped things up more than once. Also, if a fellow gamer only needs a blurb for his character instead of the whole book, it's easy to hit the print button, allowing them to attach the oft-needed rules right to their character sheet. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 22:26:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Much like RB, I feel myself imitating Keanu Reeves.
What, you're going to look at Hasbro and tell them you know kung fu?  |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 22:30:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Yes, I do feel that it's a definite snake pit at the WotC boards. Every day I feel closer and closer to closing and sealing my account.
I'm down to going there once a day for about five minutes, and I keep thinking about just saying F-it altogether.
They just started a new 'Osse Project' thread over there that I am mildly interested in, so that's keeping me onboard... for now.
The whole mindset over there is wack - the 4er's speaking against "old FR", and then asking all kinds of questions about what it was like.
How did they dislike something so much that the knew almost nothing about? Its bizarre... they have to reference older sources just to play, because there isn't enough information out there about 4e.
And now the older sources have been pulled as well...
Maybe some of the posters asking questions are brand new to 4e Realms or returning players to the Realms. Either way they should be nurtured into the Realms. They ask for guidance then help them. I haven’t posted there in a while but I have been lurking. The current trend is the 4e-I-hate -the-Old-Realm haters find themselves arguing with the Pre-FR-Shattered-Realms (Guess who starts the arguments) which tends to invite people who flat out hate WotC and will say nothing but negative things about 4e and the Realms. Next thing you know nothing gets solved and some of the newer players get scared away.
Give advice, help them out, and resist the urge to slam the company/4e/FRSpellplague in the same post.
Maybe the removal of the older pdf's was a good thing because now players are asking the questions about a world we love.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 22:32:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If I was going to play 4e, I would gladly purchase all the 4e products.
Ditto that. I'd likely get it on the cheap, but it would be legal.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And yes, all 4e material is available somewhere two days after its released, so stopping downloads of old-edition material isn't going to stop anything at all.
Not only that, but as I've pointed out, the only money they were making on the legacy material was from the pdfs. Now they've cut off that source of income.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In a strange sort of way, book-piracy may even increase sales (for RPGs), or at the very least, be a 'break even' deal. I can think of at least FIVE 3e sourcebooks that I didn't plan to buy that I went out and purchased after looking at pdf's of them. I figure any time a D&D campaign gets underway, a few people will be using pdf's, but if they stick with it, they'll eventually want physical books, and others that join-in will probably buy the books outright - ergo, if that game running on pdfs didn't exist, many of the people who became new players would have never been introduced to the game and made purchases.
From what I've read, the anime community actually relies on a form of piracy... People that can speak Japanese get copies of untranslated anime titles, add subtitles, and distribute them. The US anime companies watch the fansub communities, and see which titles are the ones that are getting the most attention. Then they get licenses to sell and distribute those titles over here. As soon as the announcement is made, the fansub communities -- without being asked -- stop distribution of fansubs of those titles.
So the anime companies watch the pirates. They figure if the pirates like it, the rest of the anime fans will. So they decide to sell it, and the pirates cooperate by not competing or undercutting their sales. It's a win-win for everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Free material (weather legal or not) spreads knowledge of things around the web and around the world like wildfire, so for every 100 people that download pirated crap, maybe five will become real players and will eventually spend money on products. If the other 95 people would never spend their money anyway, that turns into a net gain for the company, not a loss.
At least one American sci-fi book publisher includes in their hardcovers CDs that have digital copies of other books. They're apparently not losing money for doing this...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think WotC's problem is that they are reactive, and not pro-active. Their recent decisions all appear to be extremely short-sighted.
If nothing else, the "take down all pdfs now" move proves they are being reactive, and not pro-active. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 22:53:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Eye of Hores-Re
I would love to see them get it and then punt Eberon off the map.....
I'm no fan of that setting, but I see nothing wrong with leaving it in place. I'd not cease publication of it as long as it's still profitable.
There are a couple nifty Eber-whatsit ideas.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Moonlight
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 23:12:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In a strange sort of way, book-piracy may even increase sales (for RPGs), or at the very least, be a 'break even' deal. I can think of at least FIVE 3e sourcebooks that I didn't plan to buy that I went out and purchased after looking at pdf's of them. I figure any time a D&D campaign gets underway, a few people will be using pdf's, but if they stick with it, they'll eventually want physical books, and others that join-in will probably buy the books outright - ergo, if that game running on pdfs didn't exist, many of the people who became new players would have never been introduced to the game and made purchases.
From what I've read, the anime community actually relies on a form of piracy... People that can speak Japanese get copies of untranslated anime titles, add subtitles, and distribute them. The US anime companies watch the fansub communities, and see which titles are the ones that are getting the most attention. Then they get licenses to sell and distribute those titles over here. As soon as the announcement is made, the fansub communities -- without being asked -- stop distribution of fansubs of those titles.
So the anime companies watch the pirates. They figure if the pirates like it, the rest of the anime fans will. So they decide to sell it, and the pirates cooperate by not competing or undercutting their sales. It's a win-win for everyone.
I cant more agree with that. It's exactly how it's happening. And I am seriously praying that a less "family related thing" that Hasbro will take over FR. Or maybe the wizards of Thay decided that they had enough. And take some real actions in the Realms. And who would care about WOTC then? Not Szass Tam for sure. Let people adventure, I don't care about your profit. Do you remember this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxKACKQJ6Dk |
Sehanine is dreaming... |
Edited by - Moonlight on 22 Apr 2009 23:14:09 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 23:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Maybe some of the posters asking questions are brand new to 4e Realms or returning players to the Realms. Either way they should be nurtured into the Realms. They ask for guidance then help them. I haven’t posted there in a while but I have been lurking. The current trend is the 4e-I-hate -the-Old-Realm haters find themselves arguing with the Pre-FR-Shattered-Realms (Guess who starts the arguments) which tends to invite people who flat out hate WotC and will say nothing but negative things about 4e and the Realms. Next thing you know nothing gets solved and some of the newer players get scared away.
Give advice, help them out, and resist the urge to slam the company/4e/FRSpellplague in the same post.
Maybe the removal of the older pdf's was a good thing because now players are asking the questions about a world we love.
This +1.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 04:57:40
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I wouldn't worry about the negative response regarding sale of the DnD license to Paizo, White Wolf, or whoever. Most people didn't care either way, there were just a few zealous diehards. We see them with every edition, company or setting. Heck, to many, the people here at Candlekeep are craggy old Realms grognards not worthy of touching the sacred ink of the 4E FR books, or Eberron books, or Greyhawk modules, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The whole mindset over there is wack - the 4er's speaking against "old FR", and then asking all kinds of questions about what it was like.
How did they dislike something so much that the knew almost nothing about? Its bizarre... they have to reference older sources just to play, because there isn't enough information out there about 4e.
And now the older sources have been pulled as well...
I noticed that too. Some people always preface their posts with something along the lines of "I've hated FR with a passion for decades, but 4E made me give it a chance. By the way, where can I find more information on this area/organization/deity. The 4E FRCG only says so much, I want to use the information from the 3e or 2e books, which one has it?"
Some over there also claim that many people well versed in Realmslore chose to depart the Wizard forums for places like Candlekeep. I still seem many familiar names jump in with information on the Realms when it's asked for. Many regulars from Candlekeep still answer questions. I just think much of the day-to-day discussions have moved elsewhere.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
At least one American sci-fi book publisher includes in their hardcovers CDs that have digital copies of other books. They're apparently not losing money for doing this...
Baen books offers on their website some of their older novels (whole novels) as free samples. The free library include a great number of authors, many of their big names, and some of their most popular series. They supposedly have numbers that show the free offerings increase sales. Apparently many people might just read the first few chapters from the free download, then finish the book with a hardcopy which they decided to buy. Once they're hooked on a series, character or author, the sales just keep coming.
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Edited by - Dark Wizard on 23 Apr 2009 05:03:47 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 05:13:07
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After the hoopla that turned out for my thread at WotC, I've logged out for good. I haven't seen any really good Realmslore come down the pike there in a while, and I'm just tired of looking.
RE: Dark Wizard, I made sure to try and answer any questions as I could on the forum as well. The best answer has always been "Check out Candlekeep!". |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 07:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Maybe the removal of the older pdf's was a good thing because now players are asking the questions about a world we love.
Sorry, my brain must still be asleep, but I didn't get that one. |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 09:34:01
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Rather than being able to just look it up themselves they're forced to ask other people about it.
Cue much storytelling:
"Why, it must have been in my late twenties, sometime in late 1354 DR, Dale Reckoning don't you know..." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 17:03:52
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Which usually leads to us telling them how great pre-4e was, which is counter-productive to WotC growing the 4e D&D brand.
Once again, their decision regarding the pdf's doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The sole place for '4e people' to get their 'lore fix' is now the very people they annoyed with their shouts of "FR is finally worth playing in"?
I don't mind helping people at all, which I feel is the way many of us 'old fans' that are still hangin' in the wings at WotC feel, but as Dark Wizard has stated, when they preface their question with something along the lines of "4eFR is SO much better then the old version...", it gets a bit hard to stay civil. Especially when they are asking for information coming from those editions they claim to hate.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall over at WotC, because I find this whole affair extremely confusing. Many of their decisions seem very self-destructive. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Apr 2009 17:17:52 |
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Topic |
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WoTC/FR PDF's being pulled from Paizo.com
