| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
X_Ice_X
Acolyte
Portugal
20 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 05:23:39
|
Hello folks, this question came up and i admit I was a bit confused while i thought about it.
To my knowledge elves die, their souls go to Arvandor, or to other place if they have been marked as traitors or punished by their gods. Probably some more reasons...
Anyway the only case i have heard of elves not ascending to Arvandor was Baelnorn, giving up on the right to ascend to defend the elven realms and his people. Is there any sway an elven spirit could remain in the mortal world as defenders of elven tombs for instance? And i mean as a spirit (ghost, wraith, whatever).
If such is possible, when banished what would happen to such spirit?
|
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
|
|
X_Ice_X
Acolyte
Portugal
20 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 05:54:11
|
| I thought banshees were actually cursed spirits not willing defenders... But i may be very wrong since I do not know much about them. |
 |
|
|
Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 06:02:49
|
The elven lich?
I don't remember what it is called, but elves have the ability to become good liches with the proper cermonies, and they stay behind to do just that; they defend sacred places, or continue their studies for good.
Like I said, I don't have time to go through my books, but it does exist somewhere. |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 06:03:55
|
Those are Baelnorn. :)
Also, in 2e Banshee's were only elven in nature. 3e did away with that mostly.
quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
The elven lich?
I don't remember what it is called, but elves have the ability to become good liches with the proper cermonies, and they stay behind to do just that; they defend sacred places, or continue their studies for good.
Like I said, I don't have time to go through my books, but it does exist somewhere.
|
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 06:06:40
|
| Thanks for the name! Heck, I was sitting here thinking maybe I was going crazy for not remebering! ^^; |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
|
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 06:25:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by X_Ice_X
I thought banshees were actually cursed spirits not willing defenders... But i may be very wrong since I do not know much about them.
No, you're right. I thought you were mainly wondering whether an elven spirit could be held to the material plane. I don't know of any lore about non-cursed elven spirits being defenders, but I don't see why they couldn't. The ghost template can be applied to elves, and the reasons why a spirit would stay behind can be varied. An obsession with defending a certain area is as good a reason as wanting revenge, imo.
|
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
|
|
|
ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 06:34:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Also, in 2e Banshee's were only elven in nature. 3e did away with that mostly.
Really? Well, it's nice they didn't feel constrained by definitions, and established folklore traditions. 
|
--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 08:04:46
|
Grin. No, you're not crazy..... well, least not about this. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
Thanks for the name! Heck, I was sitting here thinking maybe I was going crazy for not remebering! ^^;
|
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 08:07:44
|
Really. 2E's MM specifically says, "The banshee is the spirit of an evil elven female." Which makes sense due to folklore but eh, that was mostly removed in 3e.
quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Also, in 2e Banshee's were only elven in nature. 3e did away with that mostly.
Really? Well, it's nice they didn't feel constrained by definitions, and established folklore traditions.
|
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 08:09:58
|
| There's also elven vampires, Jander Sunstar being the most "famous" because he was originally from Faerun and traveled to Ravenloft. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 10:34:22
|
| Vale of Lost Voices in Cormanthor is full of elven spirits. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 13:34:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's also elven vampires, Jander Sunstar being the most "famous" because he was originally from Faerun and traveled to Ravenloft.
And that's largely where he has remained. From what we know... [spoiled details of Vampire of the Mists to follow] Jander wanted to die in rays of the sun at the end of Vampire of the Mists. However, the Mists of Ravenloft snatched him away before he could be burned, determined to keep him alive in his tortured existence. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
X_Ice_X
Acolyte
Portugal
20 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 18:13:13
|
I just did some research and seems like I have been right all along. This question originated exactly because of the "Vale of Lost voices" as it is represented in a server I play. An a'tel'quessir entered there and as she tried to run from the spirits she slained one.
There started my doubt to what would happen to such spirits. So I grabbed the book "Cormanthyr Empire of Elves" page 102 and there is it the explanation.
That Vale was once claimed by two green dragons, the Sy'Tel'quessir fought bravely against them and when they killed one they thought they had won. Well it happens they were twin dragons, the second dragon eventually killed most of the elven warriors. Long time after the dragon known as Venon eventually died, that place became sacred and a place to bury the dead. Some of the family of those who survived asked the High Mages of Myth drannor to make them "BAELNORN" such had never been tried with sy'tel'quessir, so the result was unexpected, they do not speak, they act, they protect the vale agasint all that tresspass without reason. No N'tel'quess is ever allowed and recently most die in sight since many have tried to steal the tombs. These baelnorn also have the ability to send specters of themselves as a warning before attacking. And have ilimited dimention doors to move withing the vale at will.
So... there are no spirits in the vale. there are lots of baelnorn, who send visions as warnings, they are not real. The baelnorn who comes after to slain them... well those are quite real.
Thanks alot for the effort folks hope I have helped a bit with this info. If more info is found regarding this subject please post it ;) |
Edited by - X_Ice_X on 18 Feb 2009 18:15:22 |
|
|
|
Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 20:16:30
|
| It's marginally off-topic, but for the record, the 'Keening Spirit' template appears in CotSQ, and is defined as the spirit of an evil elven female. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Elven spirits
