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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2009 :  18:15:53  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

This is starting to be a common point that people bring up. It seems like half of the Realms could still be alive, but I think it would be even more pathetic if they rescued so many of the characters using life-extending magic. I'm not happy with the time shift, but I think it's pretty lame to say "we're now 100 years in the future, but everyone is magically still alive!"



Well, that's to be expected when you put in the Campaign Setting 'seeds' to bring your 3rd Edition characters to 4th edition via wonky portals and time magic.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2009 :  19:08:47  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

quote:
Originally posted by Portella

Drizzt has wasted loads of time... and he still doesnt understand what is to be an elf. in 4ed he knows he learned the hard way. everyone is dead but him. he should have taken catt to a nice place lived a life with her had drizzts and catt babies and moved on after she quietly pass away on his arms, happy. grr.



Who says Catt's dead? Last thing we know in 3rd edition is that she's learning magic from Alustriel. There's plenty of life-extending magics out there...



I liked her character, but I hope she is dead.

So far in reading the novels that feature before and after the time jump, way to many characters have made the leap and are now fleshing out the 4e realms....much more of this and there will be no room for new stories!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2009 :  00:57:44  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

This is starting to be a common point that people bring up. It seems like half of the Realms could still be alive, but I think it would be even more pathetic if they rescued so many of the characters using life-extending magic. I'm not happy with the time shift, but I think it's pretty lame to say "we're now 100 years in the future, but everyone is magically still alive!"



I agree--it's a cop-out that belies what the designers have told us about wanting to get away from old characters and focus on new ones.*





*Don't take this to mean I consider moving the setting 100 years in the future to have been desirable, though.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2009 :  00:10:32  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

<snip> I'm not happy with the time shift, but I think it's pretty lame to say "we're now 100 years in the future, but everyone is magically still alive!"



I agree--it's a cop-out that belies what the designers have told us about wanting to get away from old characters and focus on new ones.*

*Don't take this to mean I consider moving the setting 100 years in the future to have been desirable, though.



Ranger and Rinona: It's not about new characters... it's about not having so many old characters to hog the spotlight away from Drizzt and the panther who should have stayed with Josidiah Starym.* On that note, that's a story I'd like to have told... how *did* Drizzt get Guenhwyvar? Did Josidiah trade her for the Artblade, as seems to be the most popular theory?

* - edit: That's it! It's not Toril; it's Drizztworld!

Re: Topic: I'd also like to know what became of Garnetallisar... and ditto previous requests regarding Myth Adofhaer, Gorauna, the Cormyr lineage in general, and (here's some real wishful thinking) the Dawn Cataclysm and individual divine origins in general, esp. the Dark Three's apotheosis. I have my own story in development for the last bit, but I'd like to know more about the older still-extant gods and their relationships. We know that Shar and Selune are sisters and that the original Mystra (Mystryl) was their daughter, and we know that Beshaba and Tymora are the daughters of Tyche, an interloper goddess from the ancient Greek pantheon. Beyond that, we know virtually nothing about the origins of the deities, apart from a few other interlopers like Tyr, Loviatar, Silvanus, and possibly Ilmater (depending on how direct a match he is for the Finnish Ilmatar). The Untheric and Mulhorandi (Babylonian and Egyptian) pantheons are gone (one of the few 4E changes I've adopted in my campaign, another being the elimination of Tyr; too many interloper deities).

Anyway, I digress. Again, that's Myth Adofhaer, the Cormyr lineage, and divine origins; I'm much in agreement with Aysen here. However, we'll need more than a lamp; a billion-candlepower gamma ray lamp might do the trick, but at the very least it has to be a level of light that's fatal to anything legally binding. Some would argue that's not much light at all, but I'm not going to assess that claim here.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 04 Mar 2009 00:12:12
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Marc
Senior Scribe

641 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2009 :  20:03:28  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
agreed about the origins of gods

but for me it would be the origins of many interesting races and monsters, how they appeared, when and where

.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  00:31:52  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A comment: Theoretically, the purpose of NDAs is to keep things under wraps so that products can be written about them. This being the case, why are there still so many NDAs (especially regarding pre-Sellplague events and characters) when Wizbro has already released the only three 4E Realms products there will ever be? I don't care about DnDi; I'm not paying for anything that I can't look at in advance, particularly after pre-ordering 4E core. Does Wizbro simply believe in the power of knowledge unshared? That sounds very Dark-Side-like to me...

Edit: I have an answer to my own question, but we're not going to like it: 5E in 2012!

Later Edit: Quote from THO (quoted from a copied-and-pasted text file that had some other useful lore): "(The idea of NDAs is not to ruin the impact of forthcoming products, not to maliciously stonewall gamers wanting to fully enjoy the Realms they already play in.)"
Really? Well, then get rid of the NDAs then, because they aren't protecting lore that will be used in anything post-Sellplague, so the only reason for maintaining them is "to maliciously stonewall gamers wanting to fully enjoy the Realms they already play in." At least, that's my take on it, and I see no reason to change my view until I see the Cormyr lineage released for public viewing outside of D&Di. I've been trying to continue to enjoy exploring the Realms that were, but Wizbro's policy of maintaining NDAs on pre-Sellplague lore is making that very difficult. I understand that they want to sell books, but if that was their goal, then they should have thought about what they were doing to the setting. My feeling is, Wizbro should get out of the RPG industry altogether, sell the Realms IP to Paizo, and keep the novel rights to Drizzt and company as a condition of the sale; they would probably make more money that way anyway, which is all the bean-counters care about in the end.[/rant] Apologies if this post started to catch fire; if I want a flame war, I'll go and lurk on the WotC forums where it seems to be perpetually aflame.[/edit]

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 09 Mar 2009 01:50:14
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3240 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  04:27:30  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately Jakk, the NDA's aren't there for any gaming accessories, but for possible future novels and articles.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36735 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  18:14:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Later Edit: Quote from THO (quoted from a copied-and-pasted text file that had some other useful lore): "(The idea of NDAs is not to ruin the impact of forthcoming products, not to maliciously stonewall gamers wanting to fully enjoy the Realms they already play in.)"
Really? Well, then get rid of the NDAs then, because they aren't protecting lore that will be used in anything post-Sellplague, so the only reason for maintaining them is "to maliciously stonewall gamers wanting to fully enjoy the Realms they already play in."


Part of the problem is that between TSR, WotC, and the many, many authors and designers that they've had over the years -- both the ones still there and those long gone from the company -- there are prolly thousands, if not tens of thousands, of NDAs. They would likely have to hire an entire legal staff to review them, and that staff would have to work closely with the current design and fiction teams, to see what still needed to be protected. As they clearly don't have enough legal talent on hand (not a slam; insufficient lawyers is the main reason for the lack of a fansite policy), they aren't going to waste time and money doing that. As has been pointed out, leaving NDAs in place is free, quick, and easy. Reviewing them all on a case-by-case basis could take years.

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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2009 :  04:33:37  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As usual, the rational answer is the dismal one. No wonder I've stopped caring about new gaming products outside of Pathfinder. Lawyers are killing the Realms for me, and not by anything they're actively doing, as Wooly has pointed out.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  04:55:43  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd want to get rid of the NDA about who actually killed Aravae Irithyl... there's so much I'd like to know about that. Like the odd stuff (can't access what it was now, not near my books) that was found in her room when her body was discovered. I know I asked Mr. Greenwood about it. I'm just hoping that he gets around to being able to answer it soon.

*crosses fingers for luck*

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Pathfinder Reference Document
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  05:31:30  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

I'd want to get rid of the NDA about who actually killed Aravae Irithyl...


This was answered.... in Lost Empires I believe it is... or is it in the Grand History? Thought it was Lost Empires. Yup, page 130 of Lost Empires. It was Illitrin Starym that killed her.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 29 Mar 2009 05:34:04
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  05:53:15  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

I'd want to get rid of the NDA about who actually killed Aravae Irithyl...


This was answered.... in Lost Empires I believe it is... or is it in the Grand History? Thought it was Lost Empires. Yup, page 130 of Lost Empires. It was Illitrin Starym that killed her.

Crap. I had no clue. Thanks for the information, Kuje. It's greatly appreciated, as always.

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Pathfinder Reference Document
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  06:00:26  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, before I forget to ask... is he still alive in 3.5, or was he killed? Does it ever say one way or the other? I was running a campaign (back in 2nd Edition) and my player was helping to investigate her death. Also, she made quite an impression on him during gameplay. I know that his character is still around, but he's up there in age for an elf. I know that if Illitrin's still around an my player got wind of his crime somehow, that he'd love to dust off his old armathor gear and get a little revenge and also see Aravae's murderer brought to justice.

Telethian Phoenix
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Edited by - Penknight on 29 Mar 2009 06:08:09
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  06:18:17  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Oh, before I forget to ask... is he still alive in 3.5, or was he killed? Does it ever say one way or the other? I was running a campaign (back in 2nd Edition) and my player was helping to investigate her death. Also, she made quite an impression on him during gameplay. I know that his character is still around, but he's up there in age for an elf. I know that if Illitrin's still around an my player got wind of his crime somehow, that he'd love to dust off his old armathor gear and get a little revenge and also see Aravae's murderer brought to justice.



I don't believe it's ever said he died. He got away with her murder because the elves never found out that he did it, according to Lost Empires but after that, there's not much else written about him.

Actually, lookin in Cormanthyr, it looks like he might be dead.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 29 Mar 2009 06:23:09
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  10:31:09  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Oh, before I forget to ask... is he still alive in 3.5, or was he killed? Does it ever say one way or the other? I was running a campaign (back in 2nd Edition) and my player was helping to investigate her death. Also, she made quite an impression on him during gameplay. I know that his character is still around, but he's up there in age for an elf. I know that if Illitrin's still around an my player got wind of his crime somehow, that he'd love to dust off his old armathor gear and get a little revenge and also see Aravae's murderer brought to justice.



I don't believe it's ever said he died. He got away with her murder because the elves never found out that he did it, according to Lost Empires but after that, there's not much else written about him.

Actually, lookin in Cormanthyr, it looks like he might be dead.

Ok, thank you. I guess my player will have to settle for hunting down Darkmoon then. All I have to do is decide where I'm going to put it in my campaign. Speaking of which, was Darkmoon ever statted out for 3.5?

Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document

Edited by - Penknight on 29 Mar 2009 10:32:27
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  17:21:29  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Speaking of which, was Darkmoon ever statted out for 3.5?



Not sure whom Darkmoon is..... so, not sure if he/she was stat'd for 3e either.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36735 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  18:16:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Speaking of which, was Darkmoon ever statted out for 3.5?



Not sure whom Darkmoon is..... so, not sure if he/she was stat'd for 3e either.



Darkmoon is one of the alternate names (along with Bladeshee) for the Starym Moonblade.

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  18:30:07  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Speaking of which, was Darkmoon ever statted out for 3.5?



Not sure whom Darkmoon is..... so, not sure if he/she was stat'd for 3e either.



Darkmoon is one of the alternate names (along with Bladeshee) for the Starym Moonblade.



Ah. :) Then I'd have to guess that it wasn't updated for 3e. :)

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2009 :  22:17:02  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok. I wasn't to sure if they had or not. But I figured that between yourself and Wooly, that you would be able to let me know. I think that with Volo's Guide to All Things Magical and my trusty 3.5 DMG I shouldn't have too many problems in updating it. At least, I hope not...

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Pathfinder Reference Document
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  00:54:15  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't forgot the tidbits on the Darkmoon from Cloak & Dagger as well -- pg. 62.

For myself, I'd be a little weary when using the Starym Moonblade in my campaign. I'd see it more as a plot device, rather than something a PC could use.

The Darkmoon is both intelligent and possesses a significant ego -- the blade, rather than any wielder who does not share in the beliefs of the EV -- will determine its own course. In fact, it's possible that the blade itself is leading those who are not EV into a situation where the Darkmoon could be returned to the group. The Darkmoon is, in this regard, much like Sauron's Ring... in that "it wants to be found" by those to whom it belongs

However, it's your game, so you are free to do as you wish. If I were to attempt something like this, not that I would really because, like Elaine originally envisioned... moonblades are meant to aid the story and the plot... rather than a PC, I would require that the wielder spend more time "fighting" the blade for dominance than he/she would using it successfully in combat.

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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2009 :  23:18:34  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that you misunderstand me, Sage. My player is wanting to hunt it down and destroy it, not wield it. Sort of like one of the Campaign Uses listed in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. After all, wasn't Illitrin Starym the wielder of Darkmoon when Aravae was murdered? It may not have had the intelligence then that it has now, but in a way it *is* a form of justice. So I guess it's becoming a plot device after all.

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Edited by - Penknight on 30 Mar 2009 23:19:47
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2009 :  00:38:37  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quick update: My current top 3 "greater evil NDAs":

3: The thirteen five-sided red pyramids under Ascore.

2: Myth Adofaer.

1: The Cormyr lineage.

Give me all the lore on these three things, and I will be happy. So happy...

Of course, my brief answer to "which NDAs?" is "all of them"... but I know what that would do to project coordination, although I still fail to see the relevance of pre-Sellplague NDAs to the Brave New World set before us last year.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 19 May 2009 02:03:53
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 01 Jun 2009 :  19:15:25  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I want Cormyr lore as much as the next person, but I also want some Myth Drannor lore:
What happened to Syrumstar Auglamyr (dead? off on some other plane? hiding in stasis?)? She was such a cool character.
WHat does the Srinshee do in general, and with the restoration mof Myth Drannor especially?
I probably have quite a few others, but that's all I can think of for now.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

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