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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 12:32:09
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Hello, I'm a big fan of orcs in the Realms like Vraak, Oblon Oblivious, Obould Many Arrows, Shield of Innocence...I'd like to know more epic orc characters in the Realms...possibly gonna use it in my homebrew!!
TY in advanced!!
Orcs rule!!
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orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 14:34:33
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Check out Zargath Human-Bane from the Exemplars of Evil, he's an example of a very rare thing, an intelligent orc  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 14:46:27
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If you like orcs, you should check out scro. They were a Spelljammer race, presented in the module Goblin's Return, the second Spelljammer appendix to the Monstrous Compendium (MC9), in Dragon Annual 1 (2E) and in Dragon 339 (3E).
To sum them up, they are like orcs, but are lawful evil, intelligent, and highly militaristic. A lot of them are fluent in elvish, because they hate elves above all other races, and want to be able to insult them in their own language.
They're actually descended from orcs, too, hence the name. |
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:07:37
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| there is an adventure, the sons of Gruumsh, that deals primarly with the orcs as advesaries. I myself, have yet to truely read it so I am not sure if it is a good adventure or not, but it could be something looking into. |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you like orcs, you should check out scro. They were a Spelljammer race, presented in the module Goblin's Return, the second Spelljammer appendix to the Monstrous Compendium (MC9), in Dragon Annual 1 (2E) and in Dragon 339 (3E).
To sum them up, they are like orcs, but are lawful evil, intelligent, and highly militaristic. A lot of them are fluent in elvish, because they hate elves above all other races, and want to be able to insult them in their own language.
They're actually descended from orcs, too, hence the name.
Hmmm...I've read a short story where there were scro in it titled GOndrunner before, but that was the only novel I had with them..I don't think they participate that much in Faerun tho', anybody have some references or info on scro on Realms?
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Check out Zargath Human-Bane from the Exemplars of Evil, he's an example of a very rare thing, an intelligent orc
Who's he? |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 10 Feb 2009 18:23:10 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:25:33
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Hmmm...I've read a short story where there were scro in it titled GOndrunner before, but that was the only novel I had with them..I don't think they participate that much in Faerun tho', anybody have some references or info on scro on Realms?
-The Realmspace sourcebook is the most likely place, though I don't know if it has information about the Scro. probably, but I can't say for sure. The Cloakmaster Cycle, a five-part Spelljammer novel series, had two books that were set in Realmspace. It also has Scro in the later parts. It's been a while since I read them, so I can't say so with 100% certainty, but I do believe that it features Scro in Realmspace. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:36:39
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you like orcs, you should check out scro. They were a Spelljammer race, presented in the module Goblin's Return, the second Spelljammer appendix to the Monstrous Compendium (MC9), in Dragon Annual 1 (2E) and in Dragon 339 (3E).
To sum them up, they are like orcs, but are lawful evil, intelligent, and highly militaristic. A lot of them are fluent in elvish, because they hate elves above all other races, and want to be able to insult them in their own language.
They're actually descended from orcs, too, hence the name.
Hmmm...I've read a short story where there were scro in it titled GOndrunner before, but that was the only novel I had with them..I don't think they participate that much in Faerun tho', anybody have some references or info on scro on Realms?
They're a Spelljammer race, so other than that one short story in one of the early "Realms of" books, there's nothing specific on them in the Realms. That said, dropping a group of them on the ground somewhere is easy to do and can have a lot of potential.
I've more than once thought that the scro could have some involvement with Obould. Obould could be a scro in disguise, or there could be one or more scro behind him, trying to mold him into a new Dukagsh.
I like Vrakk, but he's pretty much the only orc I like. The scro, on the other hand? Oooh, they are so much cooler and so much more fun! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 20:20:19
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-Scro-Tum?  Now why does this thread seem familiar? Not a candlekeep version of :DANCIN: ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC :DANCIN:? 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 20:25:58
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| There is an entire chapter in Exemplars of Evil on Zargath. He is an Orc raised I think in Waterdeep who is determined to raise the Orcish nation up to match and destroy those of Humans. He escapes to find tribes of Orcs to rally to his cause only to find most Orcs are stupid. He then attempts to drag them up while bringing the humans who enslaved him down low. As I say there is a whole chapter and plotline to go with this, designed as an entire mini campaign. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 23:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
The Cloakmaster Cycle, a five-part Spelljammer novel series, had two books that were set in Realmspace.
Into the Void is the primary SJ novel set in Realmspace -- Nimbral specifically.
quote:
It also has Scro in the later parts. It's been a while since I read them, so I can't say so with 100% certainty, but I do believe that it features Scro in Realmspace.
The scro pop up mostly in Maelstrom's Eye, along with some background info for the Unhuman Wars. It also features some lore on several crystal spheres not detailed in the SJ source books. For example, Heardspace, a dyson sphere.
Elaine Cunningham's Radiant Dragon was one of my favorites of the series. It offers some good descriptions of Armistace and Radole, two worlds featured in the Practical Planetology SJ supplement.
The final book, Ultimate Helm includes some worthwhile info on the actual "Spelljammer" ship itself.
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 23:19:03
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Maelstrom's Eye? I've never heard of that novel before...think I'll browse up the net about that.
So scro are descendants of orcs? How come they are a bit advanced? Is there orc lore about scro? Mebbe orc philosophers taking out notes about the first flying scro galleon that went up to space to migrate? :p
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Scro-Tum? Now why does this thread seem familiar? Not a candlekeep version of :DANCIN: ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC :DANCIN:?
BRIMSTONE
rofl...unfortunately there aren't too many orc fans in the Realms...and I used to think that orcs were green.  |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 10 Feb 2009 23:21:20 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 23:25:31
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Maelstrom's Eye? I've never heard of that novel before...think I'll browse up the net about that.
So scro are descendants of orcs? How come they are a bit advanced? Is there orc lore about scro? Mebbe orc philosophers taking out notes about the first flying scro galleon that went up to space to migrate? :p
I had to use the web's "Wayback Machine," but the Shattered Fractine's entry of the scro should answer most of your basic questions about them:-
www.shatteredfractine.com/critters/monsters/scro.html" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20020726212253/www.shatteredfractine.com/critters/monsters/scro.html
[Just copy and paste the link above into your browser's address bar] |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Feb 2009 23:27:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 23:55:57
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
So scro are descendants of orcs?
Yes. The original scro were orcs.
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
How come they are a bit advanced?
They were led by a orc named Dukagsh, who realized why his people had lost the (First) Unhuman War. He pushed them to be more than they were, making them adopt new tactics and culture. He basically forced them to be more civilized -- not genteel, but more than poorly trained tribes of raiders.
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is there orc lore about scro?
It's highly doubtful, at least until the Second Unhuman War kicked off in 1368. Scro were quietly building their strength up until then, so no one knew about them. Some few space-going orcs might have rumors about a powerful and hidden race of orcs, but I doubt it. Part of why the scro were so successful in the early stages of the Second Unhuman War is because they caught everyone off-guard.
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Mebbe orc philosophers taking out notes about the first flying scro galleon that went up to space to migrate?
Okay, first, orc philosophers? 
Second, the scro started as space-going orcs. They didn't migrate there, they were already there.
All of this is covered in the sources I reference, particularly MC9 and the two Dragons. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 05:32:57
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-Scro=Orcs spelled backwards.  
BRIMSTOME |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 05:47:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Scro=Orcs spelled backwards.
BRIMSTOME
That was deliberate, I'm sure. Unlike the extra M in your name. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 06:28:21
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-   
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 07:04:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Scro=Orcs spelled backwards.
BRIMSTOME
You know, back when I had a regular SJ gaming group, I'd often jokingly referred to the scro as "scrO" in any campaign material I'd hand out to the players. To this day, I don't think any of them every actually realised why I did that.
Occasionally, I'd also call them "skro" as well, but the WARHAMMER fans in my group knew what that was about! |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 09:01:57
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quote:
Okay, first, orc philosophers?
Second, the scro started as space-going orcs. They didn't migrate there, they were already there.
All of this is covered in the sources I reference, particularly MC9 and the two [i]Dragons.
Does that mean that the first scro didn't came from Abeir's mortal plane but from the space around it?
And what's this Unhuman War I keep hearing about...sounds kinda cool. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 15:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
quote:
Okay, first, orc philosophers?
Second, the scro started as space-going orcs. They didn't migrate there, they were already there.
All of this is covered in the sources I reference, particularly MC9 and the two [i]Dragons.
Does that mean that the first scro didn't came from Abeir's mortal plane but from the space around it?
And what's this Unhuman War I keep hearing about...sounds kinda cool.
We don't really know where the orcs that became scro originated from. Some or all of them might have come from Realmspace, some or all of them might have come from elsewhere. All we know is that they were space-going orcs.
The Unhuman War was a war between the orcs, goblins, and ogres, against the elves. It ranged across the spheres, and involved the destruction of at least one world (in Greyspace, by the elves). The elves eventually won, putting down the other races so hard that they've not had much of a presence in space since then. It happened about 400 years ago.
Even before the Second Unhuman War kicked off, there were rumors that the ogres, at least, were trying to rise again. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 15:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, first, orc philosophers?
They've existed as per The Orc King. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 16:48:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, first, orc philosophers?
They've existed as per The Orc King.
I can imagine orc philosophy... "Why we kill? Why pointy-eared pinkies so squishy?" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 17:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Scro-Tum? Now why does this thread seem familiar? Not a candlekeep version of :DANCIN: ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC ORC :DANCIN:?
Hey! That was one of my more 'questionable' creations for FR/D&D lore - don't be trying to take credit for that particular absurdity!
The 'Tum' are to the Scro what the 'Lizardkings' are to the Lizardmen, although their 'superior breeding' may or may not have any fiendish heritage - it could simply be a matter of the 'creme' rising to the top.
Or there could be some Ogrish blood or whatever... who knows?
Whatever the true story, the Tum (same for plural and singular) are the bigger, badder and more intelligent versions of the Scro, and act as the leaders for the race. Not every ship has a Tum captain, but every Fleet surely does. They take the place of the 'nobility' that other races have.
There is nothing quite so frightening as a huge, enraged Scro Tum charging at you!
<and that line somehow made it past the child-friendly censors at WotC, so it should be acceptable here>
All of it homebrew BTW, but I do so love my Orc lore, even when I have to make it up.
And yeah... Obould is definately... one of those... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2009 17:15:05 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 17:42:20
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BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 23:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We don't really know where the orcs that became scro originated from. Some or all of them might have come from Realmspace, some or all of them might have come from elsewhere. All we know is that they were space-going orcs.
I'll note that Maelstrom's Eye does offer some tantalising tidbits on the origins of the scro, though I think it's mostly speculation. I don't recall this info popping up in any official source material.
quote:
The Unhuman War was a war between the orcs, goblins, and ogres, against the elves. It ranged across the spheres, and involved the destruction of at least one world (in Greyspace, by the elves). The elves eventually won, putting down the other races so hard that they've not had much of a presence in space since then. It happened about 400 years ago.
And the Unhuman War receives some degree of attention in the various Monstrous Compendiums for SPELLJAMMER, as well as the War Captain's Companion.
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 14:08:27
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| Okay, in what way are Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk supposed to be connected? Is there no politics between the three? |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 14:19:45
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No politics, no.
Spelljammer was all about going into space. So the Realms and Greyhawk existed within the Spelljammer setting -- in fact, part of the point of Spelljammer was the ability to travel from Toril to Oerth to Krynn without going across the planes. It was basically space travel from one world to another. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 15:01:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We don't really know where the orcs that became scro originated from. Some or all of them might have come from Realmspace, some or all of them might have come from elsewhere. All we know is that they were space-going orcs.
Considering the name, and my personal take on the Plane of mirrors (I imagine it being something like 'opposite land', where everyone and everything has an opposite, like in the famous Star Trek episode Mirror mirror), I think that an advanced, intelligent race of Orcs - spelled backwards - came from the Mirrorverse.
What they find so hard to undestand is why Elves aren't dumb, hulking brutes existing at a tribal level.
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Okay, in what way are Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk supposed to be connected? Is there no politics between the three?
In 2e, they were connected by three other meta-settings; Ravenloft, Planescape, and Spelljammer.
Beyond that, and a few cross-over stories, and the "Wizards Three" articles by Ed, there isn't much connecting them. Theres also two adventures that cross-over from FR to RL - the only two of their kind if I'm not mistaken - but that doesn't involve DL or GH in any way.
In Spelljammer, Krynn, Oerth, and Toril were supposed to form the only 'stable' planetary relationships known, and they were given some title, which I forget at the moment (the stable three? The great triangle?). Anyhow, that was another relationship they had, but outside of Arcane Space it really meant very little (although I used it in my own mega-RSE to change FR more to my tastes).
And, of course, the REAL Khelben Arunson lives in Greyhawk. I always felt that The Blackstaff went 'on Holiday' there, since he could relax and "kick-back" in ways he just couldn't in FR.
Which is why I think he may have more then one decendent living there - Mordenkainen does bear a STRIKING resemblance to Khelben.
You know what they say - "What happens in Greyhawk, stays in Greyhawk" |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2009 15:03:22 |
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Orc Heroes
