| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 09:42:14
|
I have read the whole of the Atropus information in ElE, and then came across the Atropal in the Epic Handbook. The histories are similar but there is a big difference in the statistics of the Aspect of Atropus and a Generic Atropol, is there some reason for this? The Atropus sounded like a unique entity but clearly this is not the case any more. Its not like I intend to have several of these wondering around my game world, but I would appreciate some clarity on the exact nature and prevelence of these entities. Any suggestions? Any other infromation sources? Are they the same or not?
I humbly await the vast knowledge of sages, scribes and learned readers. 
|
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
Edited by - Wrigs13 on 11 Feb 2009 21:42:34
|
|
|
Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 14:55:00
|
Atropus, the World Born Dead is a unique individual (Open Grave, p.16); an elder-evil if you will.
An atropol is a "race" of beings (MM, p.11), likely born in imitation of Atropus' creation. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
 |
|
|
Draezen
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:58:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Atropus, the World Born Dead is a unique individual (Open Grave, p.16); an elder-evil if you will.
An atropol is a "race" of beings (MM, p.11), likely born in imitation of Atropus' creation.
Well, and that's probably everything 4e has to offer on fluff for those two guys.  |
Realms 4e NPC Characters / Realms 4e Cosmology, Deities, & More
Participate in your own manipulation! |
|
|
|
Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 20:03:33
|
| I am looking at looking at 3rd ed information from Elder Evils and Epic Handbook. The thing is, is if the Atropal are copies of 'The Atropus' then why is their CR 30 as compared to Atropus's CR 23. Is this to do with the stat block of Atropus being for an 'Aspect of Atropus'? If what are the actual stats and abilities of the fully fledged version of Atropus if he is the pregenerator of the Atropal Race? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
|
|
|
freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 14:05:06
|
Aspects are supposed to be "fragments" of life energy from a divine or semi-divine source (if I understood that correctly). This explains various 3e aspects of demon lords, archdevils, etc, in the CR 10-15 range. That said, official 3e material also was all over the map in terms of CRs for the same things (comparing demon lords in the Book of Vile Darkness vs Fiendish Codex I vs Dungeon/Dragon magazine, for example). I've always kept in my mind the idea that some of these are aspects, some are avatars (in the 1e/2e kind of sense), and the most powerful might be the real thing.
Regarding Atropus/Atropals, the "Aspect of Atropus" in Elder Evils is not so much different than the ELH Atropal. They even have the same HD. My feeling is that the Aspect of Atropus is the same thing re-written with more 4e design philosophy included (fewer Spell-like Abilities, more exceptional special abilities). Probably the Elder-Evils version is a little weaker (but I don't know about a 7-point difference in CR). I'd suggest that you choose whichever you like better. From my reading of Elder Evils, Atropus itself is a planetoid, so the aspect and the atropals can just be its avatars/messengers. If your characters are above CR 20 already, you could have them meet the aspect on their world (FR?) and then the atropals on the planetoid as described in the book, maybe. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 16:21:58
|
I think Freyer has the right of it - in 3e, the "Aspects of Atropus" were the 'avatars' (or chosen, or Proxies, or Exarchs, etc...) of the true Plaentoid Atropus, and they are just the re-written (re-invisioned?) versions of Atropal.
I would say that 'Atropal' is like a simpler 'racial term' for aspects of Atropus, and the two should be inter-changeable (using the newest stats, of course).
As for Atropus himself, how the hell do you even give a CR to a planet?!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 19:16:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think Freyer has the right of it - in 3e, the "Aspects of Atropus" were the 'avatars' (or chosen, or Proxies, or Exarchs, etc...) of the true Plaentoid Atropus, and they are just the re-written (re-invisioned?) versions of Atropal.
I would say that 'Atropal' is like a simpler 'racial term' for aspects of Atropus, and the two should be inter-changeable (using the newest stats, of course).
As for Atropus himself, how the hell do you even give a CR to a planet?!
I which case which is the newer version? Which came first Elder Evils or the Epic Level Handbook? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 19:30:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think Freyer has the right of it - in 3e, the "Aspects of Atropus" were the 'avatars' (or chosen, or Proxies, or Exarchs, etc...) of the true Plaentoid Atropus, and they are just the re-written (re-invisioned?) versions of Atropal.
I would say that 'Atropal' is like a simpler 'racial term' for aspects of Atropus, and the two should be inter-changeable (using the newest stats, of course).
As for Atropus himself, how the hell do you even give a CR to a planet?!
I which case which is the newer version? Which came first Elder Evils or the Epic Level Handbook?
The ELH was much earlier -- it was a 3.0 product. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 19:35:52
|
OK so Elder Evils is a newer book, so the CR23 Aspect is the approved 3.5 version as the Epic CR30 version has been superceded.
Excellent now I know just how much pain I can cause my players |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
|
|
|
Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 10:13:44
|
| My feeling on this subject was that Atropus was the first of its kind and that Atropals were named after it (the first 'stillborn/undead godling'), but that they weren't necessarily related. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
|
|
|
Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:26:45
|
Atropus is an aspect and this is why its CR is lower than a Atropal which is the real deal. I have also found reference to remennts of an Atropal in Librus Mortis, which are left over from the birth of a dead god. So it appears that Atropal is the name given to the creature formed from a still-born god, of which Atropus is an individual who inhabits a moonlet and can create an avatar style Aspect. The process of the still-birth also creates these remnents that have echoes of an Atropals dead energy.
Simple really  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
You say Atropus, I say Atropal...
