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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:04:04
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I know everyone hates the old idea of "Take random earth cultures and make them magic" but still, sprinkling aspects of these cultures, languages, and ethnic groups can be a VERY useful tool for a DM to set the mood of a particular area. In this thread, we can list the real world cultures we use elements of to set the mood of various cultures, races, and languages.
Some are a tad bit random, but I have my reasons. Some are obscure as well. I didn't go into Demihumans because I deplore the idea that their cultures would resemble ours in anything but the basics.
Aglarond: Baltic States, Latvia and Lithuania
Altumbel: Baltic States, more Prussian and conservative.
Amn: Renaissance Spain
Anauroch: Bedouin nomad tribes
Shade: Gothic, in both the architectural and dress sense of the word.
Border Kingdoms: Since the Border Kingdoms are quite diverse, it is almost impossible to pin down a culture besides the Calishite and Shaaran ethnicity of the majority of people.
Calimshan: Al-Andalus (Muslim Spain) and Morocco
Chessenta: Byzantine and Classical Greece
Chondath: Italian city states
Chult: Ashanti
Cormyr: Frankish and Carolingian empires
Dalelands: Southern France, Swiss cantons, Holy Roman empire
Damara: Germany
Dambrath: Imagine Teutonic barbarians in tropic climes, and there you have it.
Dragon Coast: Southern France, Northern Italy
Durpar: the Sindh
Endless Wastes: Huns, Tatars, Kazakhs, Uighurs
Estagund: Dravidian (southern) India
Great Dale: Black Forest
Great Glacier: Greenland, Lappland
Halruua: Gothic north african kingdoms
High Forest: Sweden
Hlondeth: Sicily
Impiltur: Hanseatic League
Lake of Steam: Horn of Africa, Somali/Tigray
Lantan: Azore Islands and Canary Islands, especially the Guanche natives of the Canaries.
Lapaliiya: Ethiopia
Moonsea: Bwahaha we are evil...?
Moonshaes: British isles, of course.
Mulhorand: Ancient egypt, of course.
Murghom: The various cultures of the Caucasus.
Narfell: West Slavic groups.
Nelanthar Isles: Pirates. That's all you need to know.
Nimbral: Rather like the Halruuans.
Pirate Isles: pirates...
Rashemen: East Slavs.
Sembia: Netherlands
Semphar: Turkey
Sespech: Southern Italy
The Shaar: North American plains, oddly.
Silver Marches: Denmark
Sossal: Norway
Sword Coast North/Icewind Dale: Iceland
Tashalar/Thindol/Samarach: Kenya/Tanzania
Tethyr: Iberia before the Romans came/Basque.
Tharsult: South Arabian Peninsula
Thay: Caanan
Thesk: Baltic
Turmish: Persian
Unther: Babylon/Sumer
Vaasa: Finland
Var the Golden: Ganges floodplain
The Vast: Estonia
Veldorn: Afghanistan/Punjab
Deep Imaskar: Clothing wise, think a very conservative mix with high collars, based on Victorian and Manchu.
When a character has an accent:
Aglarondan: Prussian
Alzhedo: Arabic
Chessentan: Greek
Chondathan: English
Chultan: Carribean
Damaran: Middle German
Dambrathan: Austrian
Durpari: Hindi
Halruuan: French
Lantanese: Brazilian
Illuskan: Swedish
Mulhorund: Hebrew
Rashemi: Russian
Shaaran: Cherokee
Tashalan: Bantu
Turmic: Spanish
Uluik: faux-Native American
Untheric: Iranian
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:23:21
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Shou Lung: China
T'u Lung: China
Wa: Japan
Kozakura: Japan
Tabot: Tibet/Burma
Koryo: Korea
Ra-Khati: Nepal
Khazari: Nepal
Bawa: Taiwan/Hong Kong
Malatra: A hodge-podge of Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Vietnam) |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 28 Dec 2008 05:23:54 |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:28:17
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I always associated Shade with Ancient Rome (post the assimilation of Greek culture): columns, statuary, etc.
I like to think that If Faerun is pre-Renaissance Earth (or thereabouts), I like to think of Ancient Netheril as Rome under the Caesars - just more Emperor Palpatine, less Calligula. :D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
Shou Lung: China
T'u Lung: China
Wa: Japan
Kozakura: Japan
Tabot: Tibet/Burma
Koryo: Korea
Ra-Khati: Nepal
Khazari: Nepal
Bawa: Taiwan/Hong Kong
Malatra: A hodge-podge of Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Vietnam)
I think Bawa is Java, actually. In any case, basing these countries of real world ones but the creators of Kara-Tur were often just plain lazy when it came to naming them. Tabot? Koryo? Hmmm...
Khazari and Ra-Khati came off as Central Asian Turkic to me...but then I improvised Brazilian accents for a group of Lantannese tinkers, so trust me opinion at your own risk. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 05:47:39
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Some language accents I missed...
Nexalan: Mayan
Midani: Aramaic
Netherese: Frankish
Uliuk: Greenlander Inuit
Tuigan: Kazakh
Shou: Mandarin Chinese
Imaskari: Proto-Indo-European
It is too hard to describe the differences in facial feature of the different ethnic groups, so I won't get into that.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3244 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 21:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I always associated Shade with Ancient Rome (post the assimilation of Greek culture): columns, statuary, etc.
I like to think that If Faerun is pre-Renaissance Earth (or thereabouts), I like to think of Ancient Netheril as Rome under the Caesars - just more Emperor Palpatine, less Calligula. :D
I've always associated it with the Theran Empire from Earthdawn (complete with flying cities, slavery and believing that they should rule the world after being out of it for while). Of course, the Theran were based off Ancient Rome as well... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 15:25:55
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A comment on accents.
Why not make Turmish folk use an iranian or general middle eastern accent, since you've associated Turmish with Persia?
The accent I use for Tethyr (not included in the accent list) is Iberian Spanish, using the unvoiced "th" sound for soft "c" and "z". Incidentally, this also explains the famous lisp of Lhaeo, Elminster's scribe. The folk of the Dale just assumed he was gay, a misinterpretation that neither El nor Lhaeo bothered to dispel, since it was in their interests to hide Lhaeo's true origins.
P.S. For the sake of future scribes, could the title of this thread be changed to something more descriptive, like "Equivalents for FR cultures & accents"? |
Afet bint Tuzanķ
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 30 Dec 2008 15:49:46 |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 16:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
Shou Lung: China
T'u Lung: China
With the further clarification that Shou Lung is good/honorable China and T'u Lung is 'Evil China'.
quote:
Wa: Japan
Kozakura: Japan
And Wa is Japan under the Tokugawa Shoguns, while Kozakura is Japan in its "Warring States" period.
quote:
Tabot: Tibet/Burma
Koryo: Korea
Ra-Khati: Nepal
Khazari: Nepal
Bawa: Taiwan/Hong Kong
Malatra: A hodge-podge of Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Vietnam)
I so wish we'd been given more on these countries. And while we're asking, did the Realms ever have an India? |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 16:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Some language accents I missed...
Nexalan: Mayan
Midani: Aramaic
This is just me being fussy, but I'd associate the Nexalans with the Aztecs/Mexica, and their language would then be Nahuatl, lit. 'The Beautiful Speech'. And I saw Midani as being more like Arabic. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 16:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
With the further clarification that Shou Lung is good/honorable China and T'u Lung is 'Evil China'.
-I disagree. While, generally, they can be portrayed that way, Shou Lung, like any other government, does things to ultimately benefit herself and her people, and allow her government to continue to exist. Shou Lung has done plenty of bad things, and has had plenty of evil ruler.
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
I so wish we'd been given more on these countries.
-There's a decent amount of information for most of the aforementioned states and places out there. You just need to know where to look.
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
And while we're asking, did the Realms ever have an India?
-Turmish and parts of Malatra and the Hordelands are vaguely Indian in feel. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 30 Dec 2008 16:54:54 |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 18:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
A comment on accents.
Why not make Turmish folk use an iranian or general middle eastern accent, since you've associated Turmish with Persia?
I looked at their sample names given in the FRCS, and they looked kinda "Romance languages" to me, despite how I see their culture as Persian. |
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Ikki
Seeker
Finland
57 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 20:31:17
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thay is russia.. all those slaves (serfs).. inhuman vast but inefficcient armies attacking a proud independent people, who always wins the magically, numerically and equipmentvise more powerful armies. Thus rashmen = finland
Besides with female witches in charge and berserkers, strong connection with a magical nature. A special booze, but not drunk all year around, saunas.. nerdy guys hiding under the hills inventing new spells etc ;)
Even when thay claims to be peaceful, there is still no trust..
RED wizards. I let that piece of evidence to stand on its own. |
Edited by - Ikki on 30 Dec 2008 20:34:43 |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 01:45:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ikki
thay is russia.. all those slaves (serfs).. inhuman vast but inefficcient armies attacking a proud independent people, who always wins the magically, numerically and equipmentvise more powerful armies. Thus rashmen = finland
Their political position is similar that that of Finland, but it's culture is far more similar to Russia. A lot of the spirits that inhabit that land are based on Slavic folklore. Plus the implication of "Russia=ALWAYS EVIL" is seen way too often in fantasy analogues of it. Even my homebrew setting is guilty of it, the pseudo-Russia constantly invading the pseudo-Finland.
So, for my games at least, I like to portray Russia in a positive light for once.
Though I have to say, Finnic-style cultures NEVER get fantasy-analogues, and that's unfortunate. The one setting I've ever seen do that is Lyra's World from His Dark Materials. Which was literally a magical alternate history, so it replaced Finland with a race of Witches (the good/neutral kind, not the bad kind). |
Edited by - Eladrinstar on 31 Dec 2008 01:59:46 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 09:41:45
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I would like to note that Damara and Germany have next to nothing in common, both country- as well as accent-wise. Late-medieval Russia or Poland maybe.
I for one tend not to liken FR lands to anything real-worldish. On the contrary, while I would use certain real-world pictures* to show my players how I view a region, I rather disconnect it from anything real-worldish even further, e.g. when it comes to names, titles and people.
*E.g., presenting a few pictures of Scottish and Welsh mountain ranges when talking about the Vaasa region. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ikki
Seeker
Finland
57 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 16:29:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
quote:
Originally posted by Ikki
thay is russia.. all those slaves (serfs).. inhuman vast but inefficcient armies attacking a proud independent people, who always wins the magically, numerically and equipmentvise more powerful armies. Thus rashmen = finland
Their political position is similar that that of Finland, but it's culture is far more similar to Russia. A lot of the spirits that inhabit that land are based on Slavic folklore. Plus the implication of "Russia=ALWAYS EVIL" is seen way too often in fantasy analogues of it. Even my homebrew setting is guilty of it, the pseudo-Russia constantly invading the pseudo-Finland.
So, for my games at least, I like to portray Russia in a positive light for once.
Though I have to say, Finnic-style cultures NEVER get fantasy-analogues, and that's unfortunate. The one setting I've ever seen do that is Lyra's World from His Dark Materials. Which was literally a magical alternate history, so it replaced Finland with a race of Witches (the good/neutral kind, not the bad kind).
Finn means witch ;)
Neighbouring tribes wouldnt have any other.. only finnish witches were any good.
Oh and russia is always evil. Think the last millennia proves the point. An invasion every few decades. "perkele kun ryssien ryssimiset vituttaa!". (you either know that, or not. Doubt any translator knows how to handle it :D ) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 17:36:58
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I'm with Zanan, I don't want my Realms to be too real-worldish. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 18:31:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ikki
Oh and russia is always evil. Think the last millennia proves the point. An invasion every few decades. "perkele kun ryssien ryssimiset vituttaa!". (you either know that, or not. Doubt any translator knows how to handle it :D )
I'm not going to slander any real-world culture as evil, thank you very much, because it is governments that are evil, not their people.
Plus, this discussion is getting to "politics" and that isn't allowed here. |
Edited by - Eladrinstar on 31 Dec 2008 18:32:10 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 19:10:17
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Indeed. And people are forgetting that for every real-world country/group that we are told is "evil", they are likely told the same thing about us. It's all a matter of perspective.
That said, let's end the real-world commentary right here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 21:29:28
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| See, I have no problem assigning real world cultures to fantasy "evil empires"... because I only use the real world flavor to help players identify with something recognizable, not use the fantasy culture to define my opinions of the real world. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 01:28:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm with Zanan, I don't want my Realms to be too real-worldish.
I agree, but for me the most important thing is the feel we try to create in game play. If using real world accents or cultural details when DMing helps to bring the Realms alive for the players, then do it. But if it creates associations with the real world that distract the players from "getting into" the Realms, then avoid it. The degree to which these associations are created will depend, I think, on the level of sophistication among the players. I DM a very young group with a one older player. The young players loved it when I used an exaggerated Italian accent for Turco Breem, the pretentious cook at the Old Skull Inn in Shadowdale, or when I imitated Gilderoy Lockheart for Lewelyn the Loquacious, the self important bard of Shadowdale. But the older player just rolls her eyes and indulges me.
It's not revolutionary to say that the Bedine of the Anauroch are based on the Bedouin of North Africa, or that Maztica is based on the Mesoamerican and South American precolonial empires. But I don't think it's terribly helpful to try to pinpoint exact historical and geographic sources for FR cultures. After all, most DMs have difficulty maintaining even the most generalized accents, much less distinguishing between regional and historical variations.
Whatever works to make the Realms fun and exciting for the players is good. |
Afet bint Tuzanķ
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 18:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Their political position is similar that that of Finland, but it's culture is far more similar to Russia. A lot of the spirits that inhabit that land are based on Slavic folklore. Plus the implication of "Russia=ALWAYS EVIL" is seen way too often in fantasy analogues of it. Even my homebrew setting is guilty of it, the pseudo-Russia constantly invading the pseudo-Finland.
So, for my games at least, I like to portray Russia in a positive light for once.
Russia didn't really do that much invading prior to the Soviet Union. They were often invaded, but very few conquerors had much luck. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 19:40:32
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| The words of Napoleon (in the words of Eddie Izzard) upon the invasion of Russia: "OH! It's a bit cold, it's a bit cold..." |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 20:53:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And perhaps we could ring in the new year by finding the original topic?
Here, here |
Afet bint Tuzanķ
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 06:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
I so wish we'd been given more on these countries. And while we're asking, did the Realms ever have an India?
The Utter East and much of the Shining Lands; I really liked the latter's apparent amalgamation of certain aspects of Hinduism, Islam, and Capitalism.
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Ikki
Seeker
Finland
57 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2009 : 15:18:58
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Russia didn't really do that much invading prior to the Soviet Union. They were often invaded, but very few conquerors had much luck.
The only lull was the godunov interregnum, and then they largely felt the fire of having.. err.. quintupled in size in the last 20 years by conquest.
Even pre-mongol wasnt very peaceful or non-invading.
No part of the 13-, 14-, 15- 16-, 17- or 18- hundreds were peaceful one last bit. Well aside from the above mentioned godunov era. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 21:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
quote:
Originally posted by Ikki
thay is russia.. all those slaves (serfs).. inhuman vast but inefficcient armies attacking a proud independent people, who always wins the magically, numerically and equipmentvise more powerful armies. Thus rashmen = finland
Their political position is similar that that of Finland, but it's culture is far more similar to Russia. A lot of the spirits that inhabit that land are based on Slavic folklore. Plus the implication of "Russia=ALWAYS EVIL" is seen way too often in fantasy analogues of it. Even my homebrew setting is guilty of it, the pseudo-Russia constantly invading the pseudo-Finland.
So, for my games at least, I like to portray Russia in a positive light for once.
Though I have to say, Finnic-style cultures NEVER get fantasy-analogues, and that's unfortunate. The one setting I've ever seen do that is Lyra's World from His Dark Materials. Which was literally a magical alternate history, so it replaced Finland with a race of Witches (the good/neutral kind, not the bad kind).
Definitely -- even the name (RAS-he-men) sounds phonetically close to "RUShemen". And the culture and geography reminds me of the Rus, not to mention the spirits (with names from the Slavic folklore, like you noted).
In fantasy literature, Middle-Earth has half-Inuits/half-Finns (who actually speak Finnish, but I guess that was added by the authors of the MERP accessories) living in the far north. Also, Howard's stories feature the Witches of Hyperborea, who are led by Louhi
Other than that, nothing comes to mind. Certainly no culture resembling the Finns in the Realms (note to Kajehase: no Swedish culture either, and Luskan or the Northmen in the Moonshaes don't count!  ). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2009 : 23:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
With the further clarification that Shou Lung is good/honorable China and T'u Lung is 'Evil China'.
Could you elaborate on this point please?
I am curious what culture and ethnic group and language is in the Land of Yakman and the Ruined Kingdoms of Nog and Kadar? |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2009 : 20:16:27
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| Actually I think Nog and Kadar are inspired by Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, not really real world influences, one example are the fiend lords Thasaidon and Thasmudyan. Yak-men, don't know, I guess some central asian or tibetan cultures. |
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Topic |
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Cultural Theft...
