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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 15:57:32
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I have been brewing this plot idea for a while and thought I would share and see what develops.
A noted historian in religious text, know for his generous donation of texts and letters of importants to churches and libraries, is under attack for his recent find of heretical documents of a goodly faith. These articules seem to point to the fact that early church fathers and even the deity themself were involved with dealings with fiends and dark magic.
The PCs have been hired by the same church to escort the historian to a major church so he can sell these records secretly to the fathers of the faith. However, enemies of the faith are looking to capture these documents so they can spread the dark truths of the faith.
Unknown to the PC:
The 'historian' is a warlock who is faithful both to Asmodeus and Cyric. All the documents he has donated have been forged by him, as this was his plan. For when he sell more controversal and damaging papers to a church, these papers are compared to his own forgeries in the church. Then he makes money from the sell, will tipping off the enemies of the church secretly of their existance. Then foes of the church can steal the papers and spread them across the land.
He also forges papers of historical importance whith help of sages who trust his reputation, making goodly kingdoms have false shady pasts. With help of his same tricks for the religious texts. He has also researched a ritual to mask the deception of paper permanently unless a powerful Dispel Magic is used.
The character has high skills in bluff, arcana and religion. Best to place character in the Paragon Level. This character hook works best with groups with great divisions. Shar and Selune, Tymora and Beshaba, Netheril and Cormyr, etc.
Based on a real person, can you guess who? Thoughts?
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Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 17:39:41
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Sounds like an episode of Law and Order I watched...
The guy was forging documents against a man who an organization was trying to have approved for Sainthood.
It all stemmed from his mother giving away all his things when he was a child to the organization in question. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 17:59:47
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The Law and Order: Criminal Intent Episode was based on the Real case (Ripped from the Headlines).
A clue...
The crime occurred in Utah, and eventually lead to... Murder!!! |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 20:56:20
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*grins* I already gave my opinion on this issue on the WotC boards.
As I said before, I do like the plot hook. However, I find it interesting and rather telling that the very first thing the "goodly" church is concerned about is surreptitiously trying to cover its you-know-what. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Dec 2008 21:10:54 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 22:21:51
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| Yeah, but think about the question of what the American Government (consider a goodly government) would do if it evidence was found that Abraham Lincon was found to have urinated and then had sex with five years old boys? The likely hood is this was faked, but would the government just disprove this in open air and let these rumour fly forever... or get the document first and disprove it in private? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 23:44:03
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If the document was truly kept secret, they probably wouldn't bother trying to "disprove" it--there'd be no need. Not that I think that scenario is even very likely in this day and age, to be honest (consider the power of the internet). Also, I wouldn't say any government is "good" the way a church claims to be good, and governments usually don't tell people what do about their souls.
When I read your topic post, the impression I got was that the church was first outraged and "attacked" the historian, and then quickly moved to buy off the "evidence" from him. In other words, their very first concern was their reputation.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Dec 2008 23:48:48 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 20:33:59
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| Just one question: How - in a time of magic - would you make a forgery proof against magical detections? A church has enough resources to do these things easily and none of those would probably be stupid enough to accept documents like these - which contain things that are totally unknown to anyone in the church (since they are false) - without checking their authenticity. Simply saying "Cyric provides" and having him do the deceiving part is a bit simple IMO. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 21:33:12
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I would think a high-level Leiran spell might work to obfuscate the truth, especially if the spell required half-truths to be woven into the outright lies, thereby confusing the magic used to determine the truth. Cyric probably got such magic when he offed Leira (and if the guy is also a priest of Asmodeus - who is also known for spreading falsehoods - then it makes even more sense).
I don't mind that the church can't get around the magic, because its part of the plot, and if there is one 'truth' in the Realms, it's that no matter how powerful you are, someone else will always figure out a way around your own protective magics.
The part I have trouble with is that it is assumed that ALL the information in the documents is false. ALL religions and governnments have 'incidents' in their past that they would rather sweep under the carpet, which is why I say the Leiran (now Cyrican) spell could easilly use REAL damaging info and mix it with lies, exaggerrating certain things to make them worse.
I find you always get caught lying, but 'stretching the truth' works wonders.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Dec 2008 21:34:36 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 22:06:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Just one question: How - in a time of magic - would you make a forgery proof against magical detections?
-Permanency, and Nondetection, cast on the paper itself. Such a coupling is left up to DM caveat. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 Dec 2008 22:07:17 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2008 : 01:13:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I would think a high-level Leiran spell might work to obfuscate the truth, especially if the spell required half-truths to be woven into the outright lies, thereby confusing the magic used to determine the truth. Cyric probably got such magic when he offed Leira (and if the guy is also a priest of Asmodeus - who is also known for spreading falsehoods - then it makes even more sense).
I don't mind that the church can't get around the magic, because its part of the plot, and if there is one 'truth' in the Realms, it's that no matter how powerful you are, someone else will always figure out a way around your own protective magics.
The part I have trouble with is that it is assumed that ALL the information in the documents is false. ALL religions and governnments have 'incidents' in their past that they would rather sweep under the carpet, which is why I say the Leiran (now Cyrican) spell could easilly use REAL damaging info and mix it with lies, exaggerrating certain things to make them worse.
I find you always get caught lying, but 'stretching the truth' works wonders.
Actually, I never said in the original post that the forgeries were completely lies. The way the original did it was by making enough forgeries that historians of the Church (Clue: The largest collector of documents in the US) let him have unguarded access to their writing. Where he copied their writing styles, word phrases, spelling and grammar as well as their hand writing style. He would also gain access to the 'real' histories which he could use to enhance his forgeries.
Also I mentioned him being a Warlock so I could use the Bluff skill for the Forgeries and the Arcana/Religion skills for the creation of rituals to hide the origins or mask the origins of the writings. If a civilization has spent centuries creating spells to find fakes, there must be an equal effort to foil those spells.
Of course, the deity would know. Yet they may use this to test the faith or their skills at finding truth or the leader's true intentions. Yet some people might not believe the deity also if the news is darning enough!
Thoughts? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 19:46:26
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Possible false documents:
The Elfspell affair
-- The kingdom of Cormyr was built on a lie. They elves didn't grant the land to the royal family, but were bewitched by their secret sorcerers using the blackest of magics. This not only makes the royal family (forget how to spell their name) look bad and brings up the question of their rightful rule... but it gives a banner for human hating elves and eladrin (like say a certain secret group nearby) to attack this tyrannical rule.
The Duality letters
-- A certain pair of dueling gods are not as they appear. They are not foes but two sides of the same god, driven to the maddening point where the deity split in personality in opposition. Examples would be Shar and Selune, Tymora and Beshaba or more interesting Torm and Bane (would live to see the churches reaction to the last one). |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Plot hook: The Historian
