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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 11:31:26
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As has transpired today, WotC presented a x-mas present of the "special variety" to these people ...
Randy Buehler (VP of digital gaming)
Andrew Finch (director of digital games)
Stacy Longstreet (senior art director)
Julia Martin (editor)
William Meyers (creative manager, digital design)
Dave Noonan (game designer)
Jennifer Paige (online community manager)
Jennifer Powers (marketing)
Jonathan Tweet (game designer)
... by "letting them go". Dear oh dear. More on the topic at Enworld: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/246174-layoffs.html and at the WizBoards, this is what Dave had to say:
quote:
Thanks for the kind words, folks. They mean a great deal. And my wife was reading over my shoulder, and they cheered her up _immensely_.
I can confirm the essential truth of what's been reported, and I am indeed one of the ones let go today. When you're in the midst of the process, you don't really get a sense of what's going on elsewhere in the building. Thus I didn't know some of the names until I read them here. They're quality people. In a weird way, I'm proud to be among them. (I'd rather be employed, sure, but you take the solace you can at a moment like this.)
I'll leave the prognosticating and "...but what does this MEAN?!?" stuff to others. I think the game is in good shape--and I think it's in good hands. In my 10 years at Wizards, I survived a lot of these layoffs--including cuts deeper than this. More to the point for you guys, the _game_ survived deeper cuts than this.
Maybe I didn't say this enough when I was part of "the Man," but the ENWorld community is absolutely terrific. The level of discourse here continues to be top-notch, and there's always an interesting thread sitting right there, begging to be read. But if you're already a regular here, you've already figured that out, huh?
--David Noonan, who should probably get a new user name.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 13:38:02
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That's sad, especially at this time of year... And I've grown familiar with some of those names, over the years.
It's also interesting that they're doing a digital dump -- VP of digital gaming, director of digital games, creative manager, digital design, online community manager, all gone.
One really does have to wonder what it all means, if anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 15:37:16
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| I hope all these people find employment elsewhere soon (with their knowledge and experience, I'm sure they will). It's never fun to lose your job for any reason. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 15:45:42
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-That blows chunks.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 16:11:18
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-Huh. Well, if anyone was expecting anything to transpire over at WotC, forget it for now. It took me long enough to finally get to know Mike (GamerZer0), to the point where I could halfway rely on things from him, and I was starting to develop the same rapport with Jenifer (Solice). Now, I don't even know who is in charge anymore.  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 16:28:11
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For once, I'm not going to postulate and make assumptions.
This speaks for itself.
Very sad, indeed, for those folks - and their families - who lost their livelihoods, because of poor decisions others made.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 16:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I hope all these people find employment elsewhere soon (with their knowledge and experience, I'm sure they will). It's never fun to lose your job for any reason.
I agree. And especially around Christmas. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 17:14:25
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I really like David Noonan! The Stronghold Builders Guidebook, DMG II and PHB II are some of my favorite non-FR 3.x supplements. Grr...  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 18:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I agree. And especially around Christmas.
Sadly, many companies do this just before Christmas, to avoid bonuses.
I know that sucks, but thats the way it is. I worked for a big company that laid EVERYONE off in the middle of December, and then 're-opened' in the mddle of January (when all the fat-cats came back from their carribean vacations).
Not only did they avoid bonuses, but they also avoided paying everyone for the Holidays. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Dec 2008 18:19:37 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 18:44:40
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I was fortunate enough to have been in a position of responsibility in a term position once, and when made redundant, got into a higher position in an acting role and then got a full promotion before I had to go back to a lower job. I've got cut in hours before though, and that hurt. Can't imagine full out lay off, esp. during holidays like this.
And I agree, DMG II was tremendous, I loved it!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 19:02:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-That blows chunks.
BRIMSTONE
Aye, great big foetid ones  |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 19:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I agree. And especially around Christmas.
Sadly, many companies do this just before Christmas, to avoid bonuses.
I know that sucks, but thats the way it is. I worked for a big company that laid EVERYONE off in the middle of December, and then 're-opened' in the mddle of January (when all the fat-cats came back from their carribean vacations).
Not only did they avoid bonuses, but they also avoided paying everyone for the Holidays.
Ironically (or maybe not so), my former company used to do the same thing. Only they weren't paying out Holiday bonuses at all! (Claimed since they were an 'international' company, they couldn't be biased to specific holidays.)
Here's hoping that new jobs are just around the corner for all of them. Heck, if WotC keeps it up, there'll be enough former employees around to create their own gaming company and 'steal' D&D from them...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 19:39:18
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| I don't know what capacity Paizo has to do so, but I would love to see them snap up a few of the lay-offs. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 21:27:53
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Here is the thread at Paizo's forum where Paizo's officials (and some other designers) are posting comments to the lay-offs (they have indeed three jobs to offer at Paizo), and there is a very interesting commentary from Monte Cook at the end of page 1, cited from the ENWorld-Forums.
quote:
Monte Cook wrote:
[...] Not that I have any illusions about what would have happened had I stayed. I've no doubt that I would have been laid off. From a larger perspective than just yesterday, it's become clear that WotC's become a company that not only doesn't value experience, it avoids
it.
[...]
It's a foolish and shortsighted management that lets people like Jonathan, Julia, and Dave go. Foolish. And a cold-hearted one that does it at Christmas. But this is not new outrage, it's old, tired outrage. This is the company that laid off Skip, and Jeff, and Sean, and other people of extraordinary talent and experience. It's par for the recent course. [...]
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"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 03 Dec 2008 21:54:37 |
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imis999
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2008 : 22:38:20
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| Shame Paizo can't just buy D&D from Hasbro. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:13:59
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Wizards must have some very able designers and editors if they think they can do without Jonathan Tweet and Julia Martin.
But if Jonathan's new work post-Wizards is anything like his work pre-Wizards -- Ars Magica, Everway, Over the Edge -- he has my attention. |
Edited by - Faraer on 04 Dec 2008 01:16:41 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:30:59
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Having been part of a very stingy company in the past I can say that it isn't so much that companies are silly and get rid of good solid employees; but instead they "retire"/fire long time employees to avoid ever increasing pay, benefits, perks etc. and hire starving new talent for peanuts to do the same work-load.
Lets say each of those folks made and average of 50k a year...WotC just saved nearly half a million in wages alone...not counting other expenses that could cut deeply into their accounting books.
Now they hire a new face or two for next to nothing, re-distribute the work of the old employees onto the shoulders of others (who they don't have to pay more too!) and they have saved a lot of money.
This is often used as a short term artificial means to show an increase in profit.
Very much an illusion since sales may not be higher; but they have cut operating costs and so it makes things look better.
Bottom line of this type of reasoning is that in another year, when they realize they have now over-worked their remaining employees (and the "new guy" looks like he has been strapping himself to the Coffee machine and twitches uncontrollably in meetings because of late nights trying to impress his new bosses); they end up having to hire folks back. This almost always results in their books taking a serious hit and someone in upper management getting their arse chewed off when they sit in with THEIR boss and talk bottom line again:
Big Boss to Little Boss: "Last year this time you had a half million increase in the books...now you are telling me not only did you lose that this year; but you had to hire extra help to get things fixed?"
Little Boss: "Ummmm..."
Yeah...never a good idea to make a quick fix...it always comes back on you in later periods.
It may be that they have some plan I'm totally ignorant of at WotC; I'm really just talking general here and not about their true practices...but it is telling when something this large happens AFTER a huge release of a new product line that is supposed to make everyone jump for joy... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Sadly, many companies do this just before Christmas, to avoid bonuses.
I know that sucks, but thats the way it is. I worked for a big company that laid EVERYONE off in the middle of December, and then 're-opened' in the mddle of January (when all the fat-cats came back from their carribean vacations).
Not only did they avoid bonuses, but they also avoided paying everyone for the Holidays.
Ironically (or maybe not so), my former company used to do the same thing. Only they weren't paying out Holiday bonuses at all! (Claimed since they were an 'international' company, they couldn't be biased to specific holidays.)
I'm not surprised by such practices at all. What a bunch of SCROOGES!
quote:
Here's hoping that new jobs are just around the corner for all of them.
I agree, I hope they all find new jobs soon. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-WotC_Mike is now the head of the forums.
For now.
Geez, that post is starting to seem like a revolving door... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:46:54
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-Indeed it is. Here's what she had to say:
quote:
Originally posted by Solice
As I am sure you have heard there have been some changes here at Wizards. Parts of those changes involve me pursuing other opportunities.
I wanted to take a moment to say thank you. Thank you to everyone here who harbors the kind of passion for games that makes this community so great. It has been a pleasure, and an honor, to work for you all.
While Wizards is in the process of developing new CM procedures, I am grateful that I am able to leave this community in the capable hands of WotC_Mike. Hes a great guy, and a truly committed community man! Please be kind, supportive and helpful to him, he deserves it!
I now take my leave with nothing but admiration and gratitude in my heart, for this community and for the opportunity Wizards of the Coast provided me. (Yes I know it sounds like canned speech, but I really do mean it!)
Happy gaming one and all!
Sincerely,
Jennifer "Solice" Paige
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(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 01:52:16
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So sad.
Anyway, it seems to me like WotC has been "in the process of developing new CM procedures" for a long, long time now, and they keep changing their minds. :-/ |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 02:23:53
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-I think the most outrageous outrage is that...
...
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-Zanan used the term 'X-Mas'! I'm offended!! 
-Anyway, yeah, the boards have been in disarray for a while now. Basically, it all started when Mike (GamerZer0) became the Community Manager, and management split into Customer Service and Community Management. WizOs became reactive, rather than proactive (that's what stopped plenty of arguments and fights from even developing). And, of course, on the cusp of all of that was the release of 4e, which has started plenty of problems, on the pro- and anti- side. To make matters worse, Mike was very unhelpful, in that he didn't give answers promptly, said one thing and then did another, and didn't have much tact (in that sort of role. In my personal dealings with him, he was polite, respectful, a gentleman in that sense). I mean, you all know all of the loops and hurtles I had to go though just to get 1 extra forum. With Solice, honestly, enough things were in place to make her "reign" pretty smooth, in the management sense. The shenanigans that people pull are going on with full force (as a bunch of you undoubtedly know, I'm sure), but there's not much that can be done with that.
-As for WotC_Mike, we'll see. All I know about him right now, is that he's bald, has an ear piercing, and has no tattoos. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 04:09:16
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quote:
Originally posted by imis999
Shame Paizo can't just buy D&D from Hasbro.
-At least Paizo can make correct NPC statblocks.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 17:26:21
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| Won't say "I told you so," as it's no time for personal glorification. All I'll say is good luck in the future to those who got laid off, and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, for the love of God, for those still working in the industry and the scribes here at the keep: switch to Paizo as aoon as humanly possible. Not only their sales have exceeded expectations according to Lead Designer Jason Bulhman, but the place is reportedly a very place to work at, and the product (for us gamers) is much superior. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 19:05:29
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Fellow Scribes...
If I can bite my tongue, anyone can.
I'd prefer this thread concern itself with the people - and their families - who lost their jobs. We have enough WotC-bashing threads around, and I made the mistake of mentioning Paizo myself in a similar WotC thread.
BTW, I'm not pointing any fingers here - this just happens to be where this post falls out, after I just gave the thread a quick re-read, and I see it going in that direction (it hasn't... yet).
Business do what businesses do, and there is no 'good' or 'evil' involved (at least not intentionally), and I'd bet that the folks still remaining at WotC are dreading coming in every day and finding that little pink-slip on their desk as well.
I'm sure the people who were let-go feel terrible... but I doubt those left feel much better. Lambasting them at this time is poor form, I think. I wish them ALL well, and I hope they can still manage to have a happy holiday season. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2008 23:18:47 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2008 : 21:29:08
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-According to Jonathan Tweet:
quote:
Originally posted by WotC_JoT
Thanks for the concern you folks have expressed.
For me personally, things look pretty good. Wizards offers generous severance packages, and my personal situation is stable.
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(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 04 Dec 2008 21:29:57 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2008 : 02:46:00
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To all those let go from WotC, Bellevue isn't very far away from Renton. 
Good luck to all of you in finding new jobs.
P.S. I just bought Ed Greenwood's new book Dark Lord. It should be a fun read. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2008 : 04:14:47
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-Wizards usually has a couple rounds of Lay-offs after releasing a new edition. The Timing is what bites this time. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Topic |
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Julia Martin & David Noonan made redundant ...
