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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Dec 2008 : 22:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
Another thing I'd add... awhile back, there was a Dragon Magazine article (cannot remember the issue number or author, and my books are packed away at the moment) with an interesting character called Elmonster the Shaman. I'd make Elmonster a canon part of the Realms and flesh him out a lot more.
"Crude, But Effective" by Derek Jensen, in issue 199. According to The DragonDex, the same author only had one other article, in 184. That article did not include Elmonster. And while it's not at all relevant, I'm going to note that I loved the cover art for 184.  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2008 : 23:30:34
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| One of the things we did years and years ago, and this is only half-remembered, was have wandering sheriffs in the Western Heartlands. They were concerned only with the Law and Justice. If that required hanging a few people, so be it. The Sheriffs were generally LN, and were often the lone stranger type who would ride into a village and save it from the local bandits/outlaws. Sometimes they would work with the Harpers, and sometimes they found the Harpers to be bandits, depending on the local Harpers methods. We definitely stuck with an Old West with swords style game, though, and this fit perfectly for us. Boareskyr Bridge was one of our favorite areas, and Barrim Stagwinter was a Sheriff in our campaign. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2008 : 01:01:40
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I'm reworking my 1376 DR Tethyamar for use in the 4e Realms of the Future...should have it up tmr.
Still working on Ixinos too...that should be done soon and I'll send it off to the folks here at CK...just got caught in the last days of the semester and have a lot of studying to do!
"I'm not a slacker Mom...just because I play fantasy games doesn't mean I sit around all day and get nothing done!"
"Oh really Tony? Then why does your room look like a tornado hit it?"
"Man! I can't get a break...you just don't understand how long it takes to create a world Mom! I don't have time to clean my room right now when I can't decide what the people of Melvaunt wear in the winter!"
Mom:  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2008 : 20:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
Another thing I'd add... awhile back, there was a Dragon Magazine article (cannot remember the issue number or author, and my books are packed away at the moment) with an interesting character called Elmonster the Shaman. I'd make Elmonster a canon part of the Realms and flesh him out a lot more.
"Crude, But Effective" by Derek Jensen, in issue 199. According to The DragonDex, the same author only had one other article, in 184. That article did not include Elmonster. And while it's not at all relevant, I'm going to note that I loved the cover art for 184.
Thanks for the reference... it'll make it easier for me to find when I dig through the boxes of D&D stuff I have packed away in the attic.  |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 16:02:50
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I would try to delve a lot more deeply into the ancient history of the Realms. I really love reading about the creator races, the crownwars, and ancient empires, and lots of other historical tidbits. I also really liked some of the content that was used when TSR was still around. They had stuff like spelljamming, in depth exploration of the Underdark (not just the drow), and High Magic in depth.
I'm not trying to bring up the 4E discussion, but I had a very strange coincidence when I wrote a campaign a few months before they came out with 4E. I wrote a campaign that was set 100 years in the future. It had also gone through cataclysmic circumstances, though I think what I did with having the sarrukh reemerge and takeover half of Faerun was better than what they wrote for 4E. |
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MathiasSymbaern
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 15:44:13
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In our Realms campaign many of our characters have been concentrating on bringing the elves back into prominence on Faerun. "The Last Mythal" series by Rich Baker seems to enhance this possibility. My own elven character has built a town in the Turnstone Pass in the Nether Mountains. The town, called Sentinel, has existed there for almost 20 years, fighting off orcs and demons from Hell Gate keep. The character who established Sentinel is now an epic level wizard but using an NPC like Aeravin Teshur in this role would work equally well. With the destruction of Hell Gate Keep and the defeat and death of Sarya Dlardrageth, there exists a vacuum in the Delimbiyr Vale. Wizards has talked about a New Earlaan for years. This event is in full swing in our campaign. Many of the elves and half-elves who fled the destruction of Earlaan to Silverymoon 600 years ago are returning to the lands in and around the High Forest.
My reasoning for this is well within what is already canon, but I will list them. The settlement of Tall Trees still awaits an elvish population and has been held by a small group of Druids and elves for centuries. Myth Glaurach has a recently rejuvenated Mythal and has been largely purged of evil beings. Evermeet has been attacked twice in the last three years calling into doubt its value as a refuge. The Caerilcarn in the southeasten High Forest is already acting toward the establishment of an elven realm. Seiveril Miratar has broken "The Retreat" and established a new realm in the forest of Cormanthor. The entire area has had almost no commerce since the fall of Ascalhorn to demons. The Delimbiyr river would seem a natural highway to trade flowing down from the Silver Marches to the lands in the south.
The biggest problem I foresee is the simple lack of elves in the region to found a viable country which can defend its borders. Many of these should come from Evermeet and Silverymoon. There are numerous references to ruined, and not so ruined, elven cities in the High Forest, including one (Myth Adofher) which has been shunted out of the the prime material plane but awaits the proper series of events to bring it back to the High Forest. I see my own wizard attempting to find the keys to returning Myth Adofher and the return of the "The Hidden City of Hope" and the "The Return" as being used as the signs for which this event is triggered. It could also be keyed to the return of the "ruleblade" in the "Last Mythal" novels. There is also the possibility of opening a portal to some threatened elvish realm either on or outside the FR plane of existence and bringing the refugees to the High Forest.
I foresee and entire campaign based around the attempts to found this realm with lower level PC's acting as agents for the now epic level characters in the realms. The epic level PC's all have agenda's of their own but are all but unplayable as anything more than political entities or cameo actors. There are numerous adventure hooks for this type of campaign in LEoF. |
Edited by - MathiasSymbaern on 14 Dec 2008 15:47:57 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 17:09:21
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| when the campaigns i'm running get close to cormyr or the like they regularily hear about a young upstart Dwarven wizard which have started cleaning out some of the old dwarven settlements infested by goblinoids and kobolds under greypeak and Thunder mountains, which claims to be an heir to the old Amarindaran kingdom ... and have convinced Cormyr that they should give a hand (for a lower price on minerals when they capture some of the old Adamantite and Mithril mines), and have lately started talking with the Druids of High Forest, trying to get some kind of alliance going between them ageinst the Demons in greypeak and Hellfire Keep, and that they have rights to the areas aboveground in the areas, with the Dwarvens having rights to expand below High Forest, under guidiance of some fledling Dwarven druids) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 12:18:35
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An idea occuring to me recently concerns the place of humans among the creator races.
It is curious to me that somehow... arguably almost miraculously, when you think about it (?)... the earliest humans managed to survive for dozens of millenia as cave dwelling hunter-gatherers when so much mightier and more advanced races thoroughly dominated the globe.
As far as I know, humans then had the same basic brain as the later humans came to rule the planet.
Next to nothing is known about Toril before recorded history. And there is controversy among acholars regarding the creator races...
So, as an explanation for why humankind survived, my thought was to have the fey to have been the creators of humankind. The fey created humans as a species that was intimately connected with nature and therefore animal-like; yet with much higher intelligence in order to appreciate the wonders of nature. The fey created an animal species with the all important power of speech in order to share their experience with others of their kind.
Because the earliest humans were sensed by the sarrukh, batrachi and aearee to be so intimately intertwined with the wilderness, they would have been regarded as little more than a benign species of animals; and in some sense, an animal species that might even have been beneficial to the ecologies of those races, naturally keeping overpopulation of many game species in check. Humans were therefore left relatively unmolested by the more advances, powerful creator races in the Days of Thunder.
In time, however, human intelligence however eventually took on a life of its own--something which the fey failed to foresee. Human intelligence gradually gave rise to higher level, innovative problem solving skills. The critical split from nature occured with the ability to create advanced tools which then were used to cultivate the earth, and eventually to form civilizations.
It feels satisfying to me that the fey would have set the stage for something so unintended, given their mischievous and often chaotic nature.
This adds a bit of a 'Garden of Eden' and 'Fall of Man' type of myth to humankind in the Forgotten Realms. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 21 Dec 2008 13:27:57 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 12:47:36
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I like that idea - the "Fall of Man."
It might also go towards explaining why some humans, like druids and rangers, feel such an affinity for nature. They're throwbacks - lol |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 14:20:39
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Thanks. I toyed with the idea of an epic backstory for the 'fall'. But I figured it might be more interesting to simply to have it just be a natural unintended consequence. The capacity for higher order functions of intelligence such as toolmaking, agriculture, and civilization could simply have gradually gained momentum over time. At some point all the various circumstances came together for humans to take the step of refining their hunting tools to begin agriculture.
Humans would have seen the elves and dwarves dominate Toril. Humans would have noted civilization from a safe distance. The human instinctual ties with nature would have limited the scope of their thought about the usefulness of civilization.
I'm not real well versed in dwarven and elven lore, but my impression is that neither race is big on farming. I've always viewed their societies as mainly relying on game as their primary food sources. That obviously could be dead wrong. Hopefully folks who are well versed in the subject can enlighten me. (Guess I'll have to more carefully glean what I can on this subject from Dwarves Deep and Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves and Elves of Evermeet.)
In Dwarves Deep I see that there are references to dwarves cultivating crops of fungi, lichen, and farming snails and puff lizards. And the dwarves of the realm of Belsimer plowed the earth. The dwarves of Oghrann raised livestock. And the dwarves of High Shanatar also farmed--but they came to the surface well after the Djen had arrived via extraplanar travel with their human slaves (albeit from Zakhara) and conquered much of southern Faerun, "clearing" the land as they went. It's not clear to me if the Calishites put the axe to much of southern Faerun's forests to remove whatever threats they harbored, or for agriculture.
I read somewhere that elves were also created by the fey. If so, there would be a kind of natural human affinity with the fair folk at some deep level. As a closely related a cousin species, at least. The elves of course have their own unique type of racial connection with nature. I do see one references to elven farmers in Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves and several in Elves of Evermeet. Maybe humans would adopted farming by watching the elves?
Anyway, my impression is that among the elves, dwarves and humans, it is humans that really took up agriculture as a hugely transformative feature of their existence. That is, it was humans who went whole hog with farming, and designed their communities around the production of agriculture.
I'm not sure where all of this leaves the halflings and gnomes. Halflings are big on farming too, of course. I have no idea who created the hin, and know nothing of their early history. Though I did read on the FR wiki that gnomes were also created by the fey.
My knowledge about the FR's fey is pretty superficial, I hope the basic premise isn't out of line with anything. I'd appreciate other folks' thoughts in developing this line of thought. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 22 Dec 2008 10:00:19 |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 15:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Thats a good one Merrick. I may just have to steal it.
BRIMSTONE 
enjoy |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 16:10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Anyway, my impression is that among the elves, dwarves, and humans, it is humans that really taken up agriculture as a hugely transformative feature of their existence. That is, it was humans who went whole hog with farming, and designed their communities around the production of agriculture.
I'm thinking that the main difference in farming practices between the elves and humans is that the elves have adapted their own behavior so that they can co-exist with the land. While they live off the land, they simply nurture what is already provided - nuts, berries, fruit trees, wild game, etc. They are careful not to overuse any one resource. The fact that they reproduce less often than humans is probably helpful in this endeavor.
Humans, on the other hand, have tried to force nature to adapt to their behavior. They destroy forests in exchange for farmland that they then over-plant, they hunt game for sport until there is little to be found, and they reproduce at a rate their resources cannot sustain.
It's a good thing they die at a fast rate - either through wars or old age- or there might be enough of 'em to destroy the planet  . |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 17:54:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Anyway, my impression is that among the elves, dwarves, and humans, it is humans that really taken up agriculture as a hugely transformative feature of their existence. That is, it was humans who went whole hog with farming, and designed their communities around the production of agriculture.
I'm thinking that the main difference in farming practices between the elves and humans is that the elves have adapted their own behavior so that they can co-exist with the land. While they live off the land, they simply nurture what is already provided - nuts, berries, fruit trees, wild game, etc. They are careful not to overuse any one resource. The fact that they reproduce less often than humans is probably helpful in this endeavor.
Humans, on the other hand, have tried to force nature to adapt to their behavior. They destroy forests in exchange for farmland that they then over-plant, they hunt game for sport until there is little to be found, and they reproduce at a rate their resources cannot sustain.
It's a good thing they die at a fast rate - either through wars or old age- or there might be enough of 'em to destroy the planet .
Yeah, can you imagine if the average age of a human was 70+ instead of the 30-40 of a typical Realmsian? Would really unbalance the planet's environment... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 10:22:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Anyway, my impression is that among the elves, dwarves and humans, it is humans that really took up agriculture as a hugely transformative feature of their existence. That is, it was humans who went whole hog with farming, and designed their communities around the production of agriculture.
I'm thinking that the main difference in farming practices between the elves and humans is that the elves have adapted their own behavior so that they can co-exist with the land. While they live off the land, they simply nurture what is already provided - nuts, berries, fruit trees, wild game, etc. They are careful not to overuse any one resource. The fact that they reproduce less often than humans is probably helpful in this endeavor.
Humans, on the other hand, have tried to force nature to adapt to their behavior. They destroy forests in exchange for farmland that they then over-plant, they hunt game for sport until there is little to be found, and they reproduce at a rate their resources cannot sustain.
It's a good thing they die at a fast rate - either through wars or old age- or there might be enough of 'em to destroy the planet .
The notion is derived from real world observations about the role of agriculture in man's leap from nomadic cave dwelling hunter-gatherer to creator of civilization. Farming and ever more sophisticated tool use seemed to lend itself well to an explanation for why FR's humankind would have left this primitive, natural, "innocent" state. Some other cause for 'the fall' could be dreamed up, though.
I would worry that it risks getting too derivative to include any real world modern day concerns about our stewardship of the environment. But that said, it is true that Amn was converted to Faerun's breadbasket by clearing most of its timber and quilting the countryside with farms, vineyards, orchards, plantations, ranches, villas, etc. Elves would certainly never have done anything like this. By the same token, I've never read any indication that Amn's deforestation and did any harm to the ecology. There are still two large forests that were left untouched in Amn. And one can easily imagine that many small woods and stands of trees also dot the landscape, such as one sees in the South of France or California wine country--if for no other reason than trees are just aesthetically pleasing to the human senses. Anyway, I think we can assume that FR's farming isn't harmful.
Btw, here's a passage from Elves of Evermeet (p. 10) that indirectly expresses the elven sensibility toward farming:
quote:
In the broad, green valley formed by the Ardulith's passage and beneath the rugged slopes of the twin ranges, vineyards, fragrant groves of blueleaf, lush meadows, and small farmsteads serve to enhance and complement the beauty of the villas and palaces of the Gold elves, the Ar-Tel'Quessir. This valley is called Ty'athalael, an elven word with no direct human translation meaning roughly "the peace attained through the absolute beauty of nature and harmony with one's surroundings."
And there's a slightly more detailed description of Ty'athalael on p. 50
quote:
This lush, verdant valley lies at the rough center of the island. Formed between the Eagle and Silver Hills by the River Ardulith, Ty'athalael contains many places of great beauty, as well as the estates of several prominent Gold and Silver elf noble houses. The approach to the valley is guarded by Everantha (The Watchful Fortress), but the rest of the region is filled with lush grasslands, vineyards, farms, and stands of trees. Moon-horses, cath shee (faerie cats), deer, elk, and sylvan races frequent the valley, as well.
So we see that elven cultivation of crops has an ideally balanced place within the natural environment. It is perfectly "in harmony" with it. With the possible exception of Amn, I'm not aware of humankind getting too excessive with farming, i.e., where it is out of balance. But in this invention of 'the fall' how it is that humans more broadly fell out of perfect balance with nature whereas elves never did, is an interesting question.
(Then again, if elves were so wonderfully in touch with nature why did they war against themselves so much? But anyway. ) |
Edited by - Lemernis on 22 Dec 2008 11:12:46 |
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 14:24:51
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[/quote]
Is "living forever" really something desirable in a world with a proven afterlife?
[/quote]
It depends on your vision of the afterlife. Just because you know it exists doesn't mean you want to go there. I've never heard any vision of the afterlife, real world or fantasy, that I found more appealing than real life.
As for leaving behind all the good things because you learn they are transitory; that only applies if you lead a mostly cerebral existence. A strong sense of empathy would, I believe, keep you grounded in the community experiences of friendship, love, and companionship. |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 14:42:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Ionik Knight
Is "living forever" really something desirable in a world with a proven afterlife?
quote:
It depends on your vision of the afterlife. Just because you know it exists doesn't mean you want to go there. I've never heard any vision of the afterlife, real world or fantasy, that I found more appealing than real life.
As for leaving behind all the good things because you learn they are transitory; that only applies if you lead a mostly cerebral existence. A strong sense of empathy would, I believe, keep you grounded in the community experiences of friendship, love, and companionship.
I would agree that it depends on your vision of the afterlife, but as my vision would be something perfect for me and would include friendship, love, and companionship, I don't think I'd want to live forever. While I enjoy the thought of living forever, and being able to accomplish so much, I think that having to repeatedly lose the people I love would eventually get to me. I don't even see how long-lived races manage, and I understand why some of them are withdrawn when it comes to making friends with the shorter-lived races (ie: elves and humans).
Also, isn't Arvandor supposed to be so perfect that it's nearly impossible to get someone to agree to be resurrected from there? (or did I just make that up? ) |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 15:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ionik Knight
Is "living forever" really something desirable in a world with a proven afterlife?
[/quote]
It depends on your vision of the afterlife. Just because you know it exists doesn't mean you want to go there. I've never heard any vision of the afterlife, real world or fantasy, that I found more appealing than real life.
As for leaving behind all the good things because you learn they are transitory; that only applies if you lead a mostly cerebral existence. A strong sense of empathy would, I believe, keep you grounded in the community experiences of friendship, love, and companionship.
[/quote]
Remember as a prime or a planar, you can always travel to the realm of your deity via a portal. And then when you want to go see something else, you can just find the nearest entrance to the Infinite Staircase and travel to see it.
But once you're a petitioner you don't get to leave your deities realm without their permission. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 18:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I'm thinking that the main difference in farming practices between the elves and humans is that the elves have adapted their own behavior so that they can co-exist with the land. While they live off the land, they simply nurture what is already provided - nuts, berries, fruit trees, wild game, etc. They are careful not to overuse any one resource. The fact that they reproduce less often than humans is probably helpful in this endeavor.
I would say that a low population is really the only thing that would make that type of foraging sustainable (for both the natural enviroment and the ones being sustained by it).
If we are talking about a whole city of elves, I'd say you have to have some type of agriculture, or involve magic, otherwise you'd eventually run out of "what is already provided" and destroy the environment in the process (mainly by driving your food sources to or near extinction, and/or depriving other creatures of food...). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Dec 2008 19:11:29 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 20:22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
With the possible exception of Amn, I'm not aware of humankind getting too excessive with farming, i.e., where it is out of balance.
We're also talking about agricultural technology similar to that of several centuries ago. The people of Faerun wouldn't have the technology to use some of the more efficient, yet destructive methods of farming. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 20:34:55
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
We're also talking about agricultural technology similar to that of several centuries ago. The people of Faerun wouldn't have the technology to use some of the more efficient, yet destructive methods of farming.
I mostly agree, although even prehistoric peoples were able to clearcut forests, which in itself causes habitat destruction. In Faerun, there are forces that will push back against that (such as powerful, magical guardians of nature). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 22:16:39
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
With the possible exception of Amn, I'm not aware of humankind getting too excessive with farming, i.e., where it is out of balance.
We're also talking about agricultural technology similar to that of several centuries ago. The people of Faerun wouldn't have the technology to use some of the more efficient, yet destructive methods of farming.
Not only that, but there are a couple of species of critters that I know of that were hunted to extinction on the Gulf Coast of Florida -- before Europeans ever showed up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 23:13:19
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It's definitely true that driving species to extinction is nothing recent.
And thanks for the link. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 23:43:02
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I've seen several sources that claim around 99% of all plants and animals that have ever existed are now extinct. You can't blame that one on humans
And while I know that elves use agriculture, I believe it to be as some said earlier -in harmony with nature; using land that is naturally clear of forests rather than destroying some, planting different crops each year to keep the soil healthy; NOT hunting for sport but rather out of need and using ALL that is useful, nothing wasted. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 23:45:46
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| -Of course. Using land =/= destroying land. Just like hunting- in moderation- is actually good for the species as a whole, as it weeds out the "less worthy" and avoids overpopulation, and that whole shtick. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 22 Dec 2008 23:46:06 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 00:04:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I've seen several sources that claim around 99% of all plants and animals that have ever existed are now extinct. You can't blame that one on humans
Oh, I wasn't blaming all extinctions that have ever occured on humans. I was just agreeing with Wooly when he mentioned the incontrovertable fact that extinction caused by humans is nothing new.
I would also like to point out that land that is naturally clear of forest is still a type of habitat (for example, it could be a praire, or a marsh). I guess my point is that sustaining a large population without disrupting the natural surroundings at all would be, in my opinion, extremely difficult if not impossible to do without bringing magic into the picture.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 23 Dec 2008 00:13:23 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 00:09:31
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| Sorry. I can see from the way I phrased that how it sounded, but I simply meant that species have been going extinct for a long time- it's part of the natural process - and not entirely humans' fault. As in, regardless of what technologies we did or didn't have, things went extinct. It's supposed to happen. (Not at the alarming rate sometimes caused by people, but... ) |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 00:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
Sorry. I can see from the way I phrased that how it sounded, but I simply meant that species have been going extinct for a long time- it's part of the natural process - and not entirely humans' fault. As in, regardless of what technologies we did or didn't have, things went extinct. It's supposed to happen. (Not at the alarming rate sometimes caused by people, but... )
I agree...but nowhere did I argue or even imply that extinction is always the fault of humans. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 23 Dec 2008 00:13:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 00:15:23
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| Sorry. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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If the Realms were yours...
