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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Oct 2002 : 20:14:32
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I suppose that I am to elves as to Tiax is to dwarves....that said...
Does anyone have any thoughts on exactly what happens to elves in the afterlife? I know the stories of course, concerning the elven heaven and the pantheon....but I believe that it was Elaith Craulnober who made a mention of elves having no soul.....
I suppose if this means that you cannot separate the life essence of an elf from their body (i.e-the body fades very quickly upon death), than I understand....however, many elven bodies are reported "buried" in the Realms...How can this be if their "souls" are inseparable?
I understand Evermeet and "the Longing" which makes them want to go there for the end of their life (which is now a concept which is fast fading as the Elven Retreat concludes)...however...what's the deal with what happens afterward? It isn't like a human's death in which he or she goes to the plane of their alignment.......
Thoughts?
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 07:14:39
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I don't know much about this topic, but from what I understand of it, Elves don't "Die", they're body stays behind, and they're soul goes to another plane of existance and they get a new body, I may be wrong, but thats what I've always believed.
Now I have a question, If you believe in no deity when you die, can you still be resurrected? and does it take a point of Constitution?
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Mask
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 12:02:09
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| I think you can be ressurrected when you haven't believed in a god(dess). I do think it would be harder for the priests to do so, for they need to locate the soul. And locating the soul is much easier for a priest if he/she knows where to look. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't take a point of constitution. The body still goes through the same actions. I could totally be wrong about this topic though. |
Nothing is impossible! |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 19:00:33
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ep ep ep!
What the hell is going on?
my dear Drizzt, u said that after the death, elves leave their bodies to get an other. But, what happen if an elf is resurrected, because they can be. Do the other body fall on the floor, without any soul or the soul is doubled, making a kind of twins by the soul.
No, i don't think so. I know in the first edition, it was largely more difficult to resurrect elves, but anyway u also could. Thus, that means they don't get an other body. After that, i don't know. They might go to an other plane where they can live without any body...
Who knows?
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 20:05:43
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Of course, this sort of thing is ALWAYS up to the DM's discretion....
However, I DO know (and am moderately sure that most of you do as well) that in 2nd ed.,those who are without faith (called in the fugue plane "the Faithless") in the Realms are rewarded with the duty of having to shove the atheistic (otherwise called the False) into the wall surrounding Myrkul's castle. Since the intervention of Kelemvor, however, that MUST have changed....as he is not a jerk...
As far as I am concerned(as both a DM and PC), the joys of Arvandor (elven heaven) are so intense that they must take on a physical manifestation while there, thus the dead elf has a "body" of sorts....this, of course does not preclude resurrection except in that the recipient must be willing to come back...perhaps that is why elves were harder to resurrect in 1st ed..... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2002 : 07:57:52
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Well,
At least I was mostly right, like I said, I'm not an expert in that field, and thats what I've always been told.
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 : 03:30:31
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My old dear Drizzt, i'm really sorry if i said some wounding remarks, it wasn't my goal, on the contrary.
I beg you pardon.
And about drows, anyone knows what is their after life?
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2002 : 12:05:19
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| Drow afterlife is probably not the most pleasant one. Depending on which deity they worship they'll end up in one of the lower planes. e.g. The demonweb pits on the Abyss for Lloth-worshippers. The exceptions are the drow worshippers of Eilistraee. |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2002 : 08:58:06
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None taken Eilinel.
What about the followers of Vahreun(however its spelled), where do the go, I already know about the others.
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2002 : 09:39:26
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| They go to his realm in Carceri (how do you pronounce that, anyway?). That makes for some interesting roleplaying possibilities, particularly in Planescape. Which level is youir character trapped in, and how do you escape? |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2002 : 09:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by ArionElenim
However, I DO know (and am moderately sure that most of you do as well) that in 2nd ed.,those who are without faith (called in the fugue plane "the Faithless") in the Realms are rewarded with the duty of having to shove the atheistic (otherwise called the False) into the wall surrounding Myrkul's castle. Since the intervention of Kelemvor, however, that MUST have changed....as he is not a jerk...
Nope, that would be the Faithless. The False essentially have to make of their afterlife as they will (read the Crucible, an excellant book), since its the same regardless of the the god they "turned stag on" (is that actually a slang term in the UK?). I have no problem with this developement, it actually appeals to me. The fate of the Faithless (atheistic or agnostic) still pisses me off, though. I prefer the Planescape version, in which belief in a higher ideal (not necessarily a god) guides your character, but he or she dosn't have to be damned for not adopting a patron god. |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2002 : 07:43:05
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That sounds better to me too.
How is Planescape? I heard it's really weird.
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2002 : 16:29:59
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| Its both really wierd and very good. I heard from someone on this board that the materials have been discontinued, though. The 2nd edition Powers and Pantheons has the location of each diety's realm in the Planescape setting, if your looking for story arcs to bring your FR characters into such a game. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2002 : 16:44:30
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Ok, small attempt here to put the discussion back to the topic: elven afterlife. Yet not disregarding the previous posts.
The 3e Manual of the Planes covers most known planes with enough description for a DM who wants to venture once in a while to the planes without resorting to a complete campaign setting.
Unless the DM is planning to run a Planescape campaign, I would recommend to use just the Manual of the Planes instead.It also describes a little the 'heavenly' planes where the good guys go, including where the elves go when they die (and also the drow). |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2002 : 08:30:14
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Ok, in 2nd edition Forgotten Realms, where do Elves/Drow go? And in third Edition is there any other campaign settings like in 2nd, or do all the people in 3rd go to the same place?
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2002 : 08:47:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Drizzt
Ok, in 2nd edition Forgotten Realms, where do Elves/Drow go?
Same place they went in 1st edition and same place they go to in 3rd edition. The elves and drow afterlife doesn't change with a new edition. The deities entries in the 2e gods books listed their homeplanes. Those are the planes their worshippers go to in their afterlife. I don't recall of the top of my head if these homeplanes are mentioned in the 3e book, but they would have remained unchanged from 2e.
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Drizzt
And in third Edition is there any other campaign settings like in 2nd, or do all the people in 3rd go to the same place?
There can be as many settings as one likes. WotC publishes Greyhawk (D&D standard world), Forgotten Realms and the Kalamar setting. But with the d20 open license gaming, there have been various other companies that have created their own campaign worlds. It is up to the designer of the campaign world (and ultimately the DM) whether or not these campaign worlds have an overlap somewhere. With all these campaignworlds, there can be various afterlives, as many as there are campaignworlds. However the Forgotten Realms is still the Forgotten Realms with its own 'regulated' afterlive as described in various FR 2e products and now again in FR 3e products. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2002 : 19:31:10
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BTW, Lowtech, I agree with you...I think...
As DM, I rule that an agnostic character STILL serves a god...whether they know it or not....
For instance, an agnostic theif who rises to new heights and furthers the causes of rogues around the world is INDEED serving Mask...his fate should be applicable in the same fashion as a devoted, card-carrying priest of Mask. Same with everyone else....
I don't think you should have to proclaim you have/believe in a god to have served them....if that wasn't the case, what about those who don't KNOW about the gods, folk who live in subverted, sheltered communities?
I am aware this is indeed contradictory to the DMG/PH/F&A handbooks, but.....eh? That's a DM's job...someone's gotta do it. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2002 : 14:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Ok, small attempt here to put the discussion back to the topic: elven afterlife. Yet not disregarding the previous posts.
The 3e Manual of the Planes covers most known planes with enough description for a DM who wants to venture once in a while to the planes without resorting to a complete campaign setting.
Unless the DM is planning to run a Planescape campaign, I would recommend to use just the Manual of the Planes instead.It also describes a little the 'heavenly' planes where the good guys go, including where the elves go when they die (and also the drow).
That is indeed a good manual, it actually had more material about many of the outer planes than any Planescape books I've read. You might want to find the Planescape Guide to the Ethereal (I think that's the title) as well, though. You can introduce a Deep Ethereal campaign with that after learning the ropes with the Planes' manual. |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2002 : 06:15:09
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Ok, this is kinda off topic but, In planescape I heard theres like robots(just what I've heard) and I know theres Tieflings, so where do they go when they die, and I don't want a "get this and that manual" answer, cause I dont wanna buy any planescape stuff, I just wanna hear it from somebody else if they know.
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2002 : 02:49:35
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Planescape is just a huge mass of ideas wich have not really been thorough.And nothing details that this plane is the plane for the souls of that race... At least, as far as i can remenber.
After all, how many people work on Planescape now?
i guess nobody.
it's free of ideas
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2002 : 07:51:06
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So then where do the people go then? Do they go to the same place as the people in FR? Or do you just make it up with your own ideas?
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Ditalidas
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
127 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2002 : 11:08:06
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I really don't want to spoil the fun, but if you want to discuss Planescape, make a new thread. I'm not sure if it's allowed for I think it's not FR. But I rather have you make a new thread then that you cloud up this topic.
Every time I open this thread, I hope for some new visions about elven afterlife, but the last posts I read are about Planescape...If I wanted to read about Planescape I'd search for a thread with that name.
So please, return to the topic or open a new thread. |
'All that is' is also 'All that is not' for the one cannot exist without the other.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter |
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Frey
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2002 : 20:48:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ditalidas
(...)
So please, return to the topic or open a new thread.
I replied Ditalidas' post in a new thread here: http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=158 |
- Imagine ... there's no imagination. -
(remember Frey is just a PC) |
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Rory_Lana
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2002 : 19:43:20
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I know nothing at all about elven death or afterlife. But this topic is intersting. I've never come across this in game so I haven't really thought about it. So when a character dies they go to the realm of the god(dess)? So who is control over hell...and if you follow a good god(dess) can you still go to hell. More importantly, can elfs go to the so called hell?
I don't sleep much. 
Arion, you are extreamly intelligent, and well... you could attract some attention with that kinda of smarts.  |
~Tel'Lindar en Mela~ |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2002 : 20:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by ArionElenim
BTW, Lowtech, I agree with you...I think...
As DM, I rule that an agnostic character STILL serves a god...whether they know it or not....
For instance, an agnostic theif who rises to new heights and furthers the causes of rogues around the world is INDEED serving Mask...his fate should be applicable in the same fashion as a devoted, card-carrying priest of Mask. Same with everyone else....
I don't think you should have to proclaim you have/believe in a god to have served them....if that wasn't the case, what about those who don't KNOW about the gods, folk who live in subverted, sheltered communities?
I am aware this is indeed contradictory to the DMG/PH/F&A handbooks, but.....eh? That's a DM's job...someone's gotta do it.
I suppose I agree with you to a degree. However, even if the thief you used as an example is serving the cause of Mask he/she is not really serving Mask because Mask wouldn't gain any power from that thief due to the fact that a god's power is determined by the number of worshipers they have. So any mortals who die without having worshiped a god must be punished because, if not, people would stop worshiping their gods, and, if that happened, the gods would lose their powers and would be unable to keep the Balance.
OK, that's it, sorry for the really long sentences. |
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Elven afterlife
