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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 03:26:37
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Anyone have these yet? I have them and like them both, but I am really digging Martial Power. I especially like the new ranger build; Beastmaster and how the build works with and uses the Beast Companion.
I am thinking that Draconomicon will be more for the DM or folks who just want everything they can get on Dragons. I have not had too much time yet to really delve into it. Folks on other sites have indicated paper quality as really the only gripe for these. I think it is fine and suits my purposes. People who stick to being Players probably will not get much use for it.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 05:09:07
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I played in a game tonight...a Dungeon Delve...someone played the new Ranger Beastmaster build...it was a really good combination. The only thing we didn't like was that at level 3, the Ranger's Bear only had a +2 vs AC...the other creatures have a +4; but not nearly as many HP.
I haven't gotten to look at either book really...but will soon. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 11:14:07
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| So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 14:57:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think so, though I could hardly be considered truly objective. But I can tell you that there are tons of new powers, builds, feats, and other options for fighters, rangers, warlords, and rogues. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 15:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think so, though I could hardly be considered truly objective. But I can tell you that there are tons of new powers, builds, feats, and other options for fighters, rangers, warlords, and rogues.
it has been ordered by me. Anyone have any thoughts on the Dragon book? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 16:23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think so, though I could hardly be considered truly objective. But I can tell you that there are tons of new powers, builds, feats, and other options for fighters, rangers, warlords, and rogues.
Well that's all the info I need. I'm gonna call my girlfriend up and tell her to add it to my list  Thanks Eytan!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3768 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 17:04:13
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| -From what I've heard, the Martial Powers has a lot of mechanics, and the Draconomicon books has a lot of good pictures. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 17:15:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
and the Draconomicon books has a lot of good pictures.
I'm curious -- is this a good thing, or a bad thing? Saying the artwork is quite nice is a compliment. But if the artwork is the only worthwhile thing in the book, it's a backhanded compliment. So I'm curious as to which was your intended meaning. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3768 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 19:30:18
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| -Neither. The only thing I've heard from others about it is that it has nice pictures, so that is all I can say about it. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 20:54:11
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| I like pretty pictures |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 22:14:17
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-I plan on getting both next week after payday. I wasn't planning on getting MP, but after reading some reviews on the Wizards site I decided to get it. I know the Dragon book has a Level 35 Tiamat (monster). I also hear that there are some great monster's in the Dragon book. Plus having looked at them in the store I can say the books look really nice.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 01:10:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think it is great, more than I thought it would be. full of usable information. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 01:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think so, though I could hardly be considered truly objective. But I can tell you that there are tons of new powers, builds, feats, and other options for fighters, rangers, warlords, and rogues.
it has been ordered by me. Anyone have any thoughts on the Dragon book?
I got this one due to having the 3e version. I wanted to see the changes. Additionally, I just really dig dragons. I think this would be more of a DM source book though. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2008 : 03:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
So is Martial Power worth it to ask as a christmas gift?? Is there a lot of new options, more powers to choose? Are there new Feats also?
I think so, though I could hardly be considered truly objective. But I can tell you that there are tons of new powers, builds, feats, and other options for fighters, rangers, warlords, and rogues.
it has been ordered by me. Anyone have any thoughts on the Dragon book?
I got this one due to having the 3e version. I wanted to see the changes. Additionally, I just really dig dragons. I think this would be more of a DM source book though.
the 3e book was great for certain |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 12:08:06
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Oh too hell with it.
I picked up both books today.
I didn't look too deeply at the Martial Powers book (I'll save it for my players). As for the Draconomicon, it reads to me as both a reprint and an improvement on the 3E version.
The front sections on Draconic anatomy, outlook and behavior are very similar to the 3E book. Likewise the sections detailing the various types of Chromatic dragons (info on life cycles, lairs and favored terrain and average physical stats by size category), the Draconic gods, magic items and rituals mirror the older 3E book.
But after that the book spends a good 75 pages on a variety of Draconic lairs for use by the DM; three lairs per tier of play. Examples include Abyssal, Feywild, volcanic, pyramid tombs, Underdark locations, ruined castles and so on. Color maps, descriptions and stats are all there for the DM.
The section on Creating Dragon Hoards was both straightforward and thoughtful. I like how right from the start the book gives DMs ideas on how to incorporate the actual hoard into an encounter, by treating it as a fantastic terrain type. Examples include: combustibles, dazzling treasure, distracting prisoner, dragon-cursed, shifting piles and slippery coins, and vicious treasures.
After, the “Principles of Hoard Design” starts DMs out by asking them to think about the history of a hoard and how to keep it consistent with the location where the hoard can be found, in part to maintain suspension of disbelief.
Even so the book encourages DMs to seed hoards with a few unlikely items that stand out and draw the player’s attention so they can be used as adventure hooks and story/plot enablers for the DM.
Moving on from hoards, I just noticed a one and a half page section listing famous dragons from D&D settings. Each description even includes the first adventure/sourcebook a given dragon appeared in. Nice! Dragons from Dragonlance, Greyhawk and the Realms are included.
The monster section is 88 pages long and is pretty comprehensive in its coverage of undead dragons, extraplanar dragons and Dragonborn. But it also goes into expanded detail on brown, gray and purple dragons, lists wyrmling stats for all nine chromatic dragon types, lists legendary D&D dragons, lists several types of fanatical dragon worshipping kobolds, includes Abishai and even devotes two pages to a couple varieties of hoard parasites (Hoard Scarabs and Swarmtongues).
Overall I think this book is a little more DM-friendly than the 3E Draconomicon in terms of helping DMs get started on adventures that will include dragons in one form or another. That said, when it comes to dragon game statistics by age category, the 3E Draconomicon rules all. This newest Draconomicon is not as comprehensive.
My only quibble is that they didn’t include to-scale drawings for all the dragon types like they did in the 3E Draconomicon. The example on page 186 for Red Dragons is all we get, I’m afraid. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 17:30:54
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In the dragon hall of fame section, the book stats out with brief lore, tactics, and encounter groups of some of D&D's dragons.
Cyan Bloodbane was one, and I believe the only Dragonlance one. A couple others stated out and given brief histories in the book are Tiamat, Dragotha, Rime, Ashardalon. |
Edited by - scererar on 23 Nov 2008 17:40:34 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 19:02:01
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Hello Sage, quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm assuming they're the Dragon Overlords?
I don't know the lore of Dragonlance well enough to say.
Here are the famous dragons listed from that setting (page 88): Albino, Ember, Khisanth and Malystrix. |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 23 Nov 2008 19:03:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 19:14:22
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| At least two of those were Overlords... I think maybe all four. Odd, though, that Khellendros isn't on the list. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 19:44:42
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I had not sat down and read through the entire book yet. It is nice to see Dragons from FR noted in the DM's guide to dragons section. Would have been better to have a couple FR Dragons stated out in the Dragon Hall of fame portion though, like they did with Cyan and some others. I was kind of wanting to see Brimestone make an appearance here. The Vampiric Dragon was very interesting in the Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy. overall nice Tome.
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Edited by - scererar on 23 Nov 2008 21:15:34 |
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wannabesuperman
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 20:22:06
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The Draconomicon is a book that I consider essential to DMing. The 3e book was pure awesome, and this one is its equal, if not better.
Gone are the pages that were "wasted" on PC material. This book is for DMs alone, which is exactly how it should be.
As for Martial Power, I'm fairly certain it's an automatic purchase for a group of players, but not each player. Someone in your group will want/need this book. If you're playing a Fighter/Rogue/Warlord/Ranger then that person is you. It's that good.
Otherwise, you don't need it. |
"What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and The American Way?" --Clark Kent, Daily Planet. January 2001 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 00:13:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Hello Sage, quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm assuming they're the Dragon Overlords?
I don't know the lore of Dragonlance well enough to say.
Here are the famous dragons listed from that setting (page 88): Albino, Ember, Khisanth and Malystrix.
My thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
At least two of those were Overlords... I think maybe all four. Odd, though, that Khellendros isn't on the list.
Ember wasn't an Overlord -- just the mount of the Red Dragon Highlord, Verminaard. Neither was Khisanth or Albino. Malystryx was an Overlord, and head of the cabal of alien dragons that came to Ansalon.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 02:45:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ember wasn't an Overlord -- just the mount of the Red Dragon Highlord, Verminaard. Neither was Khisanth or Albino. Malystryx was an Overlord, and head of the cabal of alien dragons that came to Ansalon.
Wasn't that Pyros, that Verminaard rode?
And now that I think about it, Khisanth was the black dragon in Xak Tsaroth, correct?
It's been more than a few years since my reading has taken me back to Krynn...
Albino I don't recall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 03:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wasn't that Pyros, that Verminaard rode?
Pyros/Ember are one and the same.
quote:
And now that I think about it, Khisanth was the black dragon in Xak Tsaroth, correct?
That's the one.
quote:
Albino I don't recall.
Albino was a dragon that featured in one of the stories in the Search For Power anthology.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 05:28:23
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| For what its worth, the "new" dragon types really aren't new to Realms fans . . . the purple dragons are deep dragons, gray dragons are fang dragons, and brown dragons . . . well, brown dragons weren't new to Realms fans anyway, but they officially compressed the 3.5 sand dragons with brown dragons, which have been around in FR lore since 2nd edition. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2008 : 06:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Albino was a dragon that featured in one of the stories in the Search For Power anthology.
That explains it. I abandoned the setting after the first five trilogies, and only returned when Weis & Hickman were doing something. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2008 : 01:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, the "new" dragon types really aren't new to Realms fans . . . the purple dragons are deep dragons, gray dragons are fang dragons, and brown dragons . . . well, brown dragons weren't new to Realms fans anyway, but they officially compressed the 3.5 sand dragons with brown dragons, which have been around in FR lore since 2nd edition.
Does the source book indicate "new" dragon types? I did not see that. I do like that it indicates exactly what you said ex. grey = fang dragons etc.
edit: I found this little tid bit that kind of answers my question
LESSER-KNOWN CHROMATICS - page 30 Draconomicon
"Some chromatic dragons are better known than others. Among the lesser-known chromatics are varieties that might have no connection, past or present, with Tiamat. These include browns, grays, and purples. They have appeared in previous grimoires and bestiaries as one-offs,without affiliation to any known dragon group. Previously described respectively as sand, fang, and deep dragons,these brown, gray, and purple dragons are not so much new chromatics as newly acknowledged members of the chromatic dragon family. As such, they are featured here along with the better-known chromatic dragon
varieties." |
Edited by - scererar on 25 Nov 2008 01:23:48 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3768 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2008 : 03:00:20
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| -I like that they have a "family" now, at least. I like my Dragons to be neatly categorized: Chromatic, Metallic, Gem, Planar, etc... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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4E Discussion on Martial Power and Draconomicon
