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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 01:48:06
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Yes the title is a little play with words, sue me. 
Ok, to my topic now, I first want to present that I am in no way insulting the people here that have fully moved on with 4e D&D/Forgotten Realms and/or like the new edition/Forgotten Realms. I just want to make clear my current feelings on the matter and am wondering the feelings of everyone else at this point in time.
Personally, I cannot take any discussion about 4E Realms seriously. In other words, I can't swallow any of it as "official lore".
But it's published and written by WotC, even Ed's on the team, what could you mean? is possibly the biggest question for that statement.
What I mean is this: I can't take any of the 4E Realms lore seriously because it was geared towards fitting the 4th Edition system wholly into the Forgotten Realms with little to no care for whether the setting will explode from all the shoveling (or just profusely leak a ghastly amount of fluid). It's not what many envisioned, expected, or even wanted. It really feels to me that there truly is TWO Forgotten Realms settings.
1) The currently established Realms created for the sake of 4th Edition.
2) The Forgotten Realms that could've (or some would say, should've) been had it stayed with 3rd Edition.
So much lore and details we have lost to 4th Edition that will never see the light of day in the Forgotten Realms. The continents of Anchorome and Katashaka, the continent of Ossa, an updated regional book to the Old Empires, a Kara-Tur Campaign Setting, the Realm of Faerie, an updated Maztica, to even the mechanics like the lifedrain spell, prestige classes for more faiths of the Realms, ancient psionics and treasures of Jhaamdath, updated and new creatures to the Realms, and so much more. Forever gone are the stories and knowledge we could've accumulated that so many have yearned to see brought to life!
I feel there's a Forgotten Realms setting that should've been. A setting that didn't suffer the Spellplague, that continued its course and remained purely and truly consistent. All consistency, to me, is gone thanks to 4th Edition and I feel 4E Realms is NOT Abeir-Toril but simple just wholly "Abeir". (or to the strictly conservative, as someone at Candlekeep quoted I believe, an "Abeirration").
It saddens me to see such notable sages here make attempts to mingle 4E lore with pre-4E lore to make sense of the setting and to remain as consistent as possible. But I truly believe it shouldn't even be attempted. Let the "reset" button truly be pressed and consider 1385 D.R. the Year 0 for the Forgotten Realms if 4E is where you choose to stay and let 1385 D.R. be the year the world of Toril ends in 3rd Edition...or, of course, continues in your own game beyond.
But kudos to those that try. I know it's painful for some, mind-boggling to others, and somewhat fun for the few, but to me I feel 4E Realms should receive the "separate but equal" treatment.
I'd love to hear from others, especially Ed, what the Realms could've been had it stayed on course with 3E. Can NDAs be broken still despite the obvious lore and edition change? I don't see how it can have any effect on anything with 4E Realms, from my perspective that is. I could be wrong.
But am I the only one that feels this way? Who here has moved on, who here feels or understands what I am saying, and who here is still in total grief?
I conclude with a sincere question: What is going on with the non-Spellplague Forgotten Realms beyond 1385? 
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 02:06:12
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| There's a lot of posts talking what everyone's plans are. From resetting back before the Time of Troubles to using the Spellplague in 3rd edition. I believe Wooly coined the phrase "Shattered Realms" here, and it feels like that for me. By introducing the Spellplague, the designers broke the back of a lot of Realms fans and it's truly anyone's game now. I don't believe there is any 'canon' anymore that anyone can agree on. Players that didn't like the Time of Troubles or the Return of the Archwizards, or any other RSE are now picking and choosing what they want to build their own Realms. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 02:26:25
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I coined two phrases: "Shattered Realms" and "Sellplague". That indicates my feelings.
Honestly, my discontent goes back further than the Sellplague. There's a lot in 3E that I found objectionable. That's why I advocate resetting to right before 3E came out.
I do regard the Realms of 4E as a separate setting. And I think that had they packaged it as a new setting, instead of using the name and some details from an older setting, that I would be quite interested in it, and that it would have had more fans.
Like many people, I find that much of the 4E lore seems contradictory and illogical.
But... I've grown tired of the constant negativity, and that's a large part of why I'd stopped saying all that much about it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 04:01:01
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I'm waiting for someone to get on board with it. Maybe a new crop of good novels will turn me.
I have to admit...I like it when things get shaken up. But this time, things got stirred. :)
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 05:30:37
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-I am thinking about resetting my Realms to 1357DR using the 3E and 4E Rules. 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 05:46:26
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You're preachin' to the choir, my man. 
And thats all I want to say about that - for once in my life, I'm all talked-out on a subject.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I coined two phrases: "Shattered Realms" and "Sellplague". That indicates my feelings.
I had a couple myself, like 'Abeirron' and 'Shadowcrap', but my favorite used to be in my sig over at WotC -
You say Wizards of the Coast will ruin D&D?
It already Has, bro.
They made me remove it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 06:33:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You say Wizards of the Coast will ruin D&D?
It already Has, bro.
They made me remove it.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 09:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You're preachin' to the choir, my man.
And thats all I want to say about that - for once in my life, I'm all talked-out on a subject.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I coined two phrases: "Shattered Realms" and "Sellplague". That indicates my feelings.
I had a couple myself, like 'Abeirron' and 'Shadowcrap', but my favorite used to be in my sig over at WotC -
You say Wizards of the Coast will ruin D&D?
It already Has, bro.
They made me remove it.
i just fell of my chair laughing |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 12:19:45
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Essentially, a gaming world should be catered by the rules and not vice versa. I essentially started gaming in the Realms when AD&D was well advanced so I cannot really comment whether e.g. the Time of Troubles really changed anything siginficantly - in setting and ruleswise. As far as I see it, 3E did not really change the setting as such or to suit the rules! The only real issue is the cosmology, but honestly, that is more important to some Planescapers than people playing within the setting. And whether a deity dwells here or there is not that important as such. Some map-size/location changes can, IMHO, be overlooked.
4E ... well, I might be wrong here, but I have no real issue with the rules as such. They are new, they are different, they might provide more fun than the ... say constructionalism of AD&D or even more, 3E. Be that as it may, I still do not believe that 4E was the reason why the Realms were actually changed. It was/is just something which provides a useful explanation about the timing of the changes. For as much as I read about the new wizards or warlocks, nothing (as in: NOTHING) in there could be used as an explanation why Spellplague HAD to happen to the Realms. For it would not have mattered a bit whether there was still the Weave from which said folk draw their spells from or the "land" (etc.) as such.
The Realms were changed because someone decided that they need to be changed to be more *you name it* for the modern day (potential) gamer. A gamer that did grow up in the world of computer and video games, modern day anime and TV heroes.
A gamer that would get hooked to the setting if s/he could play a cool drow, flame-headed genasi or horn-skulled tiefling - figures s/he knew from Sacred, Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, or Warcraft. A setting that is not as "detailed" or "must-have-read" lore-ladden, but one which provides suitable ammunition for the roving adventurer, rather than campfire tales of ancient treasures, empires and lich-lords. IMHO, this could have easily been done as well, but it was not. Spellplague well and truly ran out of hand and amok, the pre-set results were far too distant from the old FR feel to get any of the Old Brigade in line with the New Realms and thus, I would not be surpised if the the New Realms will fail as a money-spinning venture.
Spellplague ... I don't exactly see a reason why it cannot happen - given certain circumstances. The effects should be far less drastic though (Did Halruaa blow up during the ToT? If not, why should it happen now?) and a massive Mystraan Campaign could be plotted about her worshippers trying to revive her again - strongly opposed by the Sharran and Cyrecists, of course.
Designers ... to say it plain and simple ... have to earn their living. It is good to see that caring people have been given the task to work on (/ save) the New Realms. It is also plain and simple to see why they will not shed that many a critical view or word on the New Realms - though some do, of course. I for one have no ill feelings for them whatsoever and that many of them are on here and talk about the Relams, new and old, in abundance just shows how much they love the Realms as well. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 07 Nov 2008 12:23:09 |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 12:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-I am thinking about resetting my Realms to 1357DR using the 3E and 4E Rules.
BRIMSTONE
I think any future campaigns I run will be set in the past, probably a few hundred years in the past. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 16:12:11
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| I will be running my 4E Realms campaign as a Parallel universe to that of 3.0/3.5. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 16:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Who here has moved on, who here feels or understands what I am saying, and who here is still in total grief?
I'm still rather sad at what's happened to the setting. In total grief? Nope. My Realms will always be as I imagine it to be. That, and I've more or less said everything I have so say about the subject.
quote:
I conclude with a sincere question: What is going on with the non-Spellplague Forgotten Realms beyond 1385?
I haven't decided yet, which is nice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Nov 2008 17:02:20 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 17:03:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You say Wizards of the Coast will ruin D&D?
It already Has, bro.
They made me remove it.
I can understand why, but that was clever.*
*And I actually like 4E. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 21:04:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I coined two phrases: "Shattered Realms" and "Sellplague". That indicates my feelings.
How about "the abomination of the desolation"?  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 21:15:51
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| Abomination Barely Entertaining In Retrospect? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 21:45:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Abomination Barely Entertaining In Retrospect?
It hurts...
Make it stop...
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 23:31:57
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I am glad to see my feelings are shared on similar levels.
I've always found 3E to be great gameplay, better balance, and it kept 90% of the sacred cows D&D has always kept, and even resurrected old ones. I find the prestige classes and multiclassing mechanics very fun for a story purpose (not as a munchkin tool, of course, but it is wrongly conceived as that considering the amount of abuse DMs have enabled many D&D players to get away with). Wizards still prepare spell slots, the birth of a new magic user that wasn't given proper gaming mechanics in previous editions was brought to light, paladins were always Lawful Good, succubi and erinyes were two very different extraplanar fiends, demons weren't elementals, fomorians were never underworld fey kings, elves lived for CENTURIES, eladrins were chaotic good angels, and there wasn't a separate species of monster for every role and livelihood in a creature's entry (Goblin Sharpshooter, Goblin Mongrel, Goblin Thug, Goblin Chef, Goblin Stripper, Goblin Sewer Worker, Goblin Peeping-Tom...you get the idea), and many more. The worst I have seen was the cosmology crap in 3E, but even that can be ignored by those that never ran a Planescape game. I would've been very open to 4E if they didn't screw with its continuity. That was what was important to me.
I'm upset at the division we have with Realms fans. Fans of 1E, 2E, and 3E can all enjoy Realmslore with little to no changes because most of the sacred cows were kept and the mechanical changes didn't force a face-lift on any of the editions (ok, so from 1E to 2E did force a little face-lift, but it wasn't too bad was it?). From 4E and onwards there's this massive division.
Hopefully...5th Edition will rectify what 4th failed to accomplish and what 4th destroyed completely, but it's wishful thinking.
Whatever the case, I check out 4E Realmslore here and there to keep up to date but I see it as a parallel universe kinda deal, as someone else here has stated. I can't connect with it as I do pre-4E/Spellplague Realms.
*Side note --- I do find 4th Edition gameplay to be very entertaining, quick, and fun, but as a "D&D" game in mechanics, in continuity, and in spirit, I do not see it as and never will. |
Edited by - Razz on 07 Nov 2008 23:32:33 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 03:39:08
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-I am a fan of the 3E Realms and the 4E Realms. I guess some people just like playing D&D regardless the Edition. One doesn't have to like either Edition to the exclusion of the other.
I have been thinking about running a 4E Realms reset back to 1357DR using the Old Grey Box as a guide, yet taking what I like from the 2E, 3E and 4E Realms. Like my Shades would be more in the mold of the Arcanist's that the originally were and not a bunch of Shar Worshipers. Sure Rivelin would lead the Cult of Shar. She wouldn't have a state run religion. I have been thinking about this since I saw the rumor's and Speculations about the World Of Greyhawk and 4E. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 06:25:34
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I'm a Realms fan, plain and simple.
I probably won't read any post-3e novels, and I have no interest in running a game set in 4e, but I suppose I would be willing to play in a game if I could find someone else running one.
A game's a game, and I don't get many chances to be just a player.
So even though I don't enjoy any of the new material for gaming or just plain reading, I am interested in it purely from a lore-perspective. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 08:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Abomination Barely Entertaining In Retrospect?
And I agree with Wooly: I plan to reset to right before 3E, play out some plotlines there (particularly the Manshoon Wars), then jump back to late 3E with some events (particularly the return of Thultanthar/Shade) handled much differently and other events (most events after 1373, that is) not happening at all, or at least happening in such a way that the PCs can actually affect what happens. The way the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch trilogy played out was abominable, in that it allowed the PCs to thwart Shar's plan, then the canon timeline reversed all of their work anyway.
The only good thing that could possibly come out of the 4E Realms is the vacating of all pre-4E NDAs, particularly those on Cormyr, the Dales, the High Forest and Star Mounts, and Cormanthyr. Of course, this will never happen, because NDAs last longer than plastic. If WotC wants my money, they should make the old hidden lore available directly on their website via pay-per-download, the way Paizo and others do it, and I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same way; I've advocated this before, and not just in Candlekeep, but the folks at Wizbro don't seem to have heard me... not that I'm in any way surprised about that. Like Razz, I can't acknowledge any 4E stuff as "official lore" either, largely because none of the changes fit the Realms. They would go quite nicely with Eberron, or even with Krynn or Athas, but not Toril. The dragonborn and genasi were perfect for Anchorome, imho... so "let's dump them into Unther instead." There are a lot of RL explanations I can come up with, but I won't put them here, because discussions of drugs and insanities should remain entirely within a Realmsian context.
Anyway, I'm tired and I don't rant coherently when I'm tired, so I'm cutting this off. Let me close with three points:
1) Yes, I believe that consistency has been blown out of existence.
2) Yes, I believe that all pre-4E NDAs should also be blown out of existence.
3) No, I don't believe that the Realms as a whole have been or should be blown out of existence. As long as people are having fun in the Forgotten Realms using whatever edition they choose (even Farth Edition), then it is serving its purpose; I just don't see how the "new" Realms could possibly be considered a successor to the Realms before gods started doing the following:
(a) acting like fourteen-year-olds (Tyr, Helm, Tymora);
(b) acting like psychotic stalkers and their victims (Shar, Cyric, Mystra);
(c) discovering that they were actually subordinate personalities of other gods with multiple-personality disorder (too many to list; "What do you mean, I'm only an aspect now?").
Okay. Rant over. Hopefully that last bit was coherent. Me tired.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 08:25:34
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There is a phrase - Too much to die, not enough to live. - which is usually applied to peoples wages. For me it applies to the Shattered Realms and is the reason why I think designers should stop working on it. Since any new "lore" coming out will be DDI based and I wont get that its more or less dead to me. Apart from modules and novels nothing new will be printed I guess, but what does that mean? It simply means your gaming store will be gone if it relies too much on D&D sales to get people to come there. That is one of the reasons why I totally and absolutely HATE fourth edition ... it kills its roots(*1)! To me its sacrificing the future for "more profit" today.
(*1) Its the same with any other internet store apart from the few people who sell things they make themselves. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Taurren
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 23:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
But am I the only one that feels this way? Who here has moved on, who here feels or understands what I am saying, and who here is still in total grief?
I understand what you are saying and agree with you completely. Thankfully many FR fans feel the same way. and when I've brought up the topic of 4aux FR, all of them, without exception, have been wiling to ignore the recent changes.
I also agree with Razz. Hopefully 5E's FR will rectify what 4aux has broken.
Keep the faith! |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 14:42:30
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This sounds like the rants I made when Time of Troubles occurred. I don't know why RSE's NEED to keep happening, and I really don't care for them.
BTW, Halruaa did not exist until 2e. ;) |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 15:34:02
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quote:
Originally posted by danbuter
This sounds like the rants I made when Time of Troubles occurred. I don't know why RSE's NEED to keep happening, and I really don't care for them.
BTW, Halruaa did not exist until 2e. ;)
Not true. It wasn't described until 2E, but there are two mentions of it (under the entries for Nimbral and Lantan) in the Old Grey Box.
Edit: Oh, hey, post 14000!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Nov 2008 15:34:39 |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 16:57:39
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Ah well, I missed those entries. I personally didn't like having a super-mage country, so I never added it into my Realms.
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Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 17:45:26
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quote:
Originally posted by danbuter
Ah well, I missed those entries. I personally didn't like having a super-mage country, so I never added it into my Realms.
Did you use Thay?
Personally I liked Halruaa... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 18:24:40
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-I like them both.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 22:23:37
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We can't coherently discuss the continuity and legitimacy -- or otherwise -- of Realms-2008 without talking about the general question of how this works for creative entities legally owned by companies rather than their creators. (At the same time we have to be careful not to overgeneralize.)
Halruaa was one of the overrun entries that appeared in the Secrets of the Sages newsletter in 1987. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 23:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by danbuter
Ah well, I missed those entries. I personally didn't like having a super-mage country, so I never added it into my Realms.
Did you use Thay?
Personally I liked Halruaa...
I love Halruaa. It's one of my fave areas in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2008 : 23:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Halruaa was one of the overrun entries that appeared in the Secrets of the Sages newsletter in 1987.
1988, according to the date on the newsletter itself.
I forgot about that one... It's not a lot of info, though.
Speaking of which... It's available as a free download from WotC, though it's not with the rest of them. It can be found here: Secrets of the Sages: The Long-Lost 1988 Forgotten Realms Newsletter. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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4aux Edition Realms --- Is it just me?
