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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2018 : 04:09:37
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2018 : 12:28:56
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The Thael of Mulhorandi folklore fame is named for the wizardess Hathaele who was a werecrocodile, She managed to breed a type of crocodile whose bite made individuals go insane and "rage" (like the barbarian class ability), attacking all those around them for a period of time, before falling into a coma and in some cases, ultimately death. Her pets were named the Thael and Mulhorandi folklore had them swimming up rivers, through sewers and lying in wait in a myriad of swamps and marshes for prey to infect. She attempted to use her pets and the venom they excreted to destabilise and seize control over the outlying villages in and around Sekras in the years after -400 DR. It is believed that Hathaeles machinations were the catalyst for the destruction of Sekras by paladins of Osiris in -425 DR. Some of her pets are believed to live still.
The term "thael" as used in Common parlance throughout the Realms is a simple shortening of the Chondathan word "vathael" which means "happiness".
The thael`kiira spellgems of the elves are a combination of the elven word for "gems" (kiira) and "cloak/shroud" (ithaela).
So, there you go, simple really.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 16 Oct 2018 11:35:43 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2018 : 14:17:43
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Thanks for the lore nugget George!
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
... the wizardess Hathaele ... Rathael's machinations ...
Sorry to be nitpicky, but is the same wizardess or two different people? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2018 : 22:08:24
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Good pick up. I changed the name because the former sounded more Mulhorandi to me. Go figure! Edited and fixed.
George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Divinity
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2018 : 18:13:56
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Hey George,
I have a couple questions concerning locations of places and areas. I'm trying to decide the placement of the Towers of Lamentation and the Grimgaws Seminary. The article states they're in the Uplands, however, the map that came with Dragon 346 puts the Towers out on the bay, which I thought would be considered the Farwater. The Grimgaws don't appear to be placed on that map. On Markus' map, he placed the Towers in what I'd consider the uplands, but the Grimjaws were in what I thought was the Farwater.
Looking at the descriptions of the two areas: Uplands and Farwater, it says the Uplands "stretch from the coast of the Easting Reach west and north to the Earthspur Mountains and the border with Damara", and the Farwater is "Named for its location beyond the swirling eddies of the Great Imphras River". Words alone, I think I can picture that, however, that seems to make the uplands massive, including land north of The Old Water and Bluefang Water. I don't understand the description of the Farwater though. The Great Impharas River is -way- north and not near Ilmwatch, which the article says this area encompasses, leading me to believe that the Farwater/Uplands border isn't the Bluefang/Old Water like most maps seem to mark, but an invisible line from Buzzard Beak Harbor going northwest.
Are the red lines or green lines more accurate?
https://postimg.cc/vDC2fFm9
And do you have opinions on where the two temples are located?
Thanks!
-Craig |
- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2018 : 00:42:18
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Hi Craig
I wasn't consulted re the map in my Impiltur article in Dragpn #346 and didn't see it pre-publication. They obviously tried to interpret locations via the text but not all were quite right.
Okay, first things first, by reference to your map link, the area delineations are incorrect. The Easting Coast demarcation line should run west-east from the bend in mountain range (where the Earthfasts running west-east become the Earthspurs running southeast-northwest) through Songhal, Outentown and on to Sarshel. The green line for the Uplands is pretty much correct although it should be noted that the mountainous area where Dunfee is located is only technically part of the realm. The rough mountain "road" leading there and that town itself are the only examples of human habitation there (other than a few bandit groups). The river line of the River Icehilt is the more correct "border". As for the Farwater, it stretches as described north of the Old Water and Bluefang Water and is bordered by the Sidewinder River (not the red line in your map that runs east-west). The "tongue" of land between the Great Imphras River and the Sidewinder is ostensibly Impiltur's territory as well but their control over that region is negligible - a bit like how Cormyr "rules" the Stonelands - so for all intents and purposes, the Sidewinder and the forest fringes between that river and the Soleine are the real, defensible northern border of the kingdom.
So to your prime query, the original article had locations semi-specified for the Grimjaws Seminary and Towers of Lamentation but they didn't survive editing. The Grimjaws Seminary is found on the southern shore of the Bluefang Water (on your map, where the "d" in Uplands is) and the Towers of Lamentation are southwest of the Fortress of Mal, hard up against the Earthspur slopes (near where you have the Crowned King, just a bit southeast of that landmark - in fact the 'road' up to that landmark begins at the Towers).
I do plan to get a "proper" map of Impiltur organised one day soon-ish. Have to find a cartographer willing to take on (and finish) the task, within my price range and able to put up with my anal requests to have locations "just so". One day.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Divinity
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2018 : 01:46:01
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Thank you very much!
I won't claim to be able to put a map together like Mike Schley or some of the other professionals from the Cartographers Guild (yet! :P) but I'm happy to hear any comments you have towards placement of locations on this map - from anyone for that matter. I've even been making some land formation changes as I get to new areas and realize the 3E map didn't have the best topography.
My intention was to wait until I have all the locations done before fully posting it and asking for feedback because finishing areas -and- taking feedback would be a lot at once, but feel free to let me know now if you, or anyone, sees something.
I made a thread here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22609 that anyone can post to me about map stuff.
Thanks again, George. |
- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2018 : 03:49:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Divinity
Thank you very much!
I won't claim to be able to put a map together like Mike Schley or some of the other professionals from the Cartographers Guild (yet! :P) but I'm happy to hear any comments you have towards placement of locations on this map - from anyone for that matter. I've even been making some land formation changes as I get to new areas and realize the 3E map didn't have the best topography.
Which map are you talking about when you refer to "this map"?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Divinity
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2018 : 15:22:08
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The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.
This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.
https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN |
- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2018 : 21:01:07
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Ahh got you. Well if you want any help re where things are in Imptur, feel free to ask.
George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 15:47:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Divinity
The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.
This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.
https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN
Just curious, what did you draw that with? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Divinity
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 17:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Divinity
The map that I linked to which had the lines drawn on it is a map that I'm making. It's a full Faerūn continent map.
This is a 25% zoom of it. There's a long way to go still.
https://postimg.cc/9DZM59kN
Just curious, what did you draw that with?
All in Photoshop CC |
- Craig Vincent
My Faerūn Continent Map |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2018 : 05:54:03
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Hi George,
In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2018 : 01:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Hi George,
In your musings, have you ever considered what abyssal "portfolio" Eltab may have held? Hordes of the Abyss mentioned the abyssal equivalents of calling water "wet" so was hoping you might have bounced around some ideas that have a bit more flavour - especially if they are inspired by the title Lord of the Hidden Layer.
The 3E sourcebook Fiendish Codex - Hordes of the Abyss gives "hatred, retribution" as Eltab's areas of "concern" as well as confirming that his layer is 248.
I had mused a long while ago (and left a little Easter Egg in GHotR) that the last Nentyarch of Narfell, Rheligaun the Horned was a half-fiend son of Fraz'Urb-luu rather than Orcus. It was he who demanded the summoning and binding of Eltab at Dun Orthass (the Citadel of Conjurers) through assistance provided by his father - specifically information as to Eltab's truename so as to facilitate his binding.
So why Eltab? In noting his areas of "concern" it struck me that Eltab may have functioned as an Abyssal assassin for hire, used by anyone who could meet his price to eliminate rivals or key allies/underlings of various demon lords and princes. His layer was known as the Hidden Layer because access to it was very difficult - which is why despite his absence it has remained pretty much inviolate - and what access could be had was only to a very limited area. Eltab worked mainly through intermediaries re contacting and "hiring" him, the most powerful of which was the balor Ndulu, and was essentially a stone cold killer, enjoying the chaos caused by his nefarious slayings.
Given this role, Eltab had few if any Abyssal allies as he was feared by all. As such, his prospects of conquering layers of the Abyss to show his power and influence ala Graz'zt was impossible. As soon as he "came out in the open" he would have been targeted and slain in a rare demonic alliance.
Fraz-Urb'luu engineered his exile from the Abyss in revenge for Eltab's activities where he was tasked with and accomplished the slaying of at least a handful of the rakshasa known as the Hollow Rajahs, Fraz's most powerful servants, at the instigation of Orcus. Unbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard (Eltab is not the smartest demon lord going around, but certainly one of the most arrogant).
So, those are my thoughts on Eltab. Feel free to use any or none of that as you wish.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 15 Dec 2018 01:53:20 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2018 : 04:01:32
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| As always, great stuff - thanks, mate! |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Misereor
Learned Scribe
164 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 10:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Unbeknownst to Fraz-Urb'luu, after his initial rage at being summoned and bound by the Narfelli, Eltab realised that he could seek to escape his controllers and create his own realm on the Prime, far away from the chaos, danger, treachery and intrigue of the Abyss. The fact that his summoning involved the bringing to the Prime of parts of his Abyssal layer made Eltab believe that with the passing of millennia he could seek to transfer his entire layer over, subsuming the Prime and ruling his own world in that regard.
Hi George,
From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).
Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?
/BR
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What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 11:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Misereor
Hi George,
From the Obyrith Shard/Blood War Cosmology stories, I got the distinct impression that when something like that happens, the corrupted plane in question either is cast or slips into the Abyss, resulting in the creation of a new layer (being how the Abyss was originally created and why the layers are so varied).
Is it because I am dead wrong, is it because Eltab doesn't have the above information, or is there be something else at work?
/BR
Okay, confession time: I don't follow Planescape, core D&D lore on the planes , etc. etc. I don't agree with core rules/lore subsuming or altering Realmslore. So what you point out may be true (I know nothing about the Obyrith Shard/Blood War cosmology stories and don't know whether what you are referring to is hard info, or in game stories or both) but has no bearing on the issue in question. Eltab is on the Prime. Parts of his Abyssal layer are on the Prime. He seeks to transfer all of his layer to the Prime if he can wangle it. That's pretty much it in Realms terms. Whether it is possible, is something I don't know. Whether this will cause something to happen to the Abyss is something I don't know either (and don't really care to, truth be told). So basically, I don't have any answers to your query unfortunately. The real answer is, whatever suits you or seems the best fit for you. I throw a lot of balls into the air and don't always catch them when they come down!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 27 Dec 2018 11:25:03 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 15:44:07
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From my understanding of such things, "the Abyss" is basically the catch-all zone of the planes. The infinite planes that do not fit anywhere else find themselves there. Eltab's layer WAS and Is in the Abyss and pieces of it were pulled out of it with magic.
Being in the Abyss is sort of like being locked in the basement where no one can see you. Even very powerful demons need to be called out of it. Being a power on the Prime allows you to travel anywhere with relative ease. This is the most appealing thing for Eltab if you ask me. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2018 : 17:34:13
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| sidebar... thank you George for mentioning the other name of the Conjurer's tower (Dun Orthass)
. that was racking my head earlier this morning |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Aez
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2019 : 18:31:38
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
So to your prime query, the original article had locations semi-specified for the Grimjaws Seminary and Towers of Lamentation but they didn't survive editing. The Grimjaws Seminary is found on the southern shore of the Bluefang Water (on your map, where the "d" in Uplands is) and the Towers of Lamentation are southwest of the Fortress of Mal, hard up against the Earthspur slopes (near where you have the Crowned King, just a bit southeast of that landmark - in fact the 'road' up to that landmark begins at the Towers).
Your answer piqued my curiosity since I'm also working on filling in more of the blanks that I find in Impiltur's map. I've been using Markustay's map (http://candlekeep.com/images/sitegfx/mt_impiltur.jpg) as a reference, though it also seems to have sourced the incorrect locations from the Dragon #346 map.
I'm trying to figure this out in relation to the possible locations of the Marcher Lord castles rebuilt during DR743 (sourced from your Impiltur timeline https://www.dmsguild.com/product/171173/The-High-History-of-Impiltur). In my head, I imagine the Grimjaws Seminary as a bit of a fortified monastery ala Prejmer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejmer_fortified_church), so I figure that it'll have significant sway in the area as a secular power as well.
Do you have any further descriptions or context for why the Grimjaws Seminary or Towers of Lamentation (or the Halls of Loyalty) are placed where they are? |
-Aez |
Edited by - Aez on 21 Jan 2019 18:34:42 |
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Dravian
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2019 : 20:00:10
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Hello, George. I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster here at Candlekeep.
I've taken up a personal quest to compile a version of the Realms that's as close to Ed's original home Realms as possible. As part of that, I've been editing the Fonstad maps to conform to everything I know about Ed's home Realms.
Since you were recently lucky enough to see Ed's original Realms maps, I was wondering if you could look over my edits to the regions of the "Bloodstone Lands" and the Moonshae Isles, and let me know how warm I am. I based a lot of my edits to the "Bloodstone" region on information you shared earlier in this thread.
https://imgur.com/a/N37ahVc
I'd greatly appreciate any input. Thanks! |
I write an R-rated '80s-themed action-comedy webcomic called Satan Ninja 198X; you can check it out at http://satanninja.com |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2019 : 00:30:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dravian
Hello, George. I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster here at Candlekeep.
I've taken up a personal quest to compile a version of the Realms that's as close to Ed's original home Realms as possible. As part of that, I've been editing the Fonstad maps to conform to everything I know about Ed's home Realms.
Since you were recently lucky enough to see Ed's original Realms maps, I was wondering if you could look over my edits to the regions of the "Bloodstone Lands" and the Moonshae Isles, and let me know how warm I am. I based a lot of my edits to the "Bloodstone" region on information you shared earlier in this thread.
https://imgur.com/a/N37ahVc
I'd greatly appreciate any input. Thanks!
Well it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. Btw, your re-done Fonstad maps look stunning. Do you do this for fun, work or a bit of both?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dravian
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2019 : 01:05:05
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. Btw, your re-done Fonstad maps look stunning. Do you do this for fun, work or a bit of both?
-- George Krashos
Wow, thanks so much! PM sent.
I dabble in Photoshop as a hobby. I made my own high-resolution scans of the Fonstad maps to work from, and have been meticulously editing them in my free time for the past several months. At first it was just to clean up the text, but then I got carried away. I can pass along the completed maps to you when I (eventually) finish.
*Edit* At least I thought I sent you a PM, but nothing is showing in my PM outbox, so it's possible I did something wrong. Let me know if you didn't receive it. |
I write an R-rated '80s-themed action-comedy webcomic called Satan Ninja 198X; you can check it out at http://satanninja.com |
Edited by - Dravian on 22 Jan 2019 02:00:37 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 00:45:52
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George,
How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?
Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 01:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
George,
How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?
Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I?
Is he using the spell Theover's Cutting Axe? That would greatly increase the rate of his woodchuckery. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 11:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Well it just so happens that when I visited Ed in August I took a few snaps of some of the original map pages sent to TSR. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the JPEGs. (...)
-- George Krashos
Hey, Mr. Krashos, could you send me these pictures, too? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2019 : 12:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
George,
How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could use the weave?
Like how I did that? Caught you unawares didn't I?
Is he using the spell Theover's Cutting Axe? That would greatly increase the rate of his woodchuckery.
Of course he is, he is after all Theover the Wizarding Woodchuck, creator of the Theover's Wizarding Hands Cantrip which temporarily allows him to cast spells with somatic components. Ah, such great scholarship, but of course you would know of him with your own interests. After all, he is known to live if Rashemen where he helps a small colony of dire beavers maintain several large damns which are also home to a colony of miniature giant space hamsters said to be "the grandchildren of the great and mighty Boo". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2019 : 03:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Aez
Your answer piqued my curiosity since I'm also working on filling in more of the blanks that I find in Impiltur's map. I've been using Markustay's map (http://candlekeep.com/images/sitegfx/mt_impiltur.jpg) as a reference, though it also seems to have sourced the incorrect locations from the Dragon #346 map.
I'm trying to figure this out in relation to the possible locations of the Marcher Lord castles rebuilt during DR743 (sourced from your Impiltur timeline https://www.dmsguild.com/product/171173/The-High-History-of-Impiltur). In my head, I imagine the Grimjaws Seminary as a bit of a fortified monastery ala Prejmer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejmer_fortified_church), so I figure that it'll have significant sway in the area as a secular power as well.
Do you have any further descriptions or context for why the Grimjaws Seminary or Towers of Lamentation (or the Halls of Loyalty) are placed where they are?
No profound reasons. I just decided to put them there.
I think your conception for the Grimjaws Seminary works just fine.
As for fort locations, they were scattered all over, with most clustered along the river line and the two "Waters" but also some in the flat lands and along the Earthspurs. If I ever managed to do an Impiltur product for the DMs Guild, I'd get someone talented to do a big map with all sorts of stuff on there. I was working toward something like that with Markus Tay but he's moved on to other projects.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 26 Jan 2019 03:50:21 |
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Questions for George Krashos
