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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 02:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hi George,
Probably the first of many questions about the tyrants of Thay.
First is an assumption I'm making, that the athora like other weave anchors, contains a sentience merged into it (like the nether scrolls), probably the sarrukh that found it.
So how did Eltab's binding (and summoning - curious wording, I presume this does not refer to when Narfell summoned him as that was a long way away) interact with the athora, could his binding using it have corrupted the sentience merged with it, that evil and corrupt weave anchor could be responsible for the persistently evil Thayan society.
Did the athora help fuel Eltab's demoncysts somehow (I like to think of Eltab's cancerous cysts growing and spreading steadily).
Did the athora affect Eltab's original movement during the great conflagration (I recall he avoided the Thaymount) perhaps he sensed the immense source of magic. Perhaps this was at a time when he didn't understand the extent of the adamantine binding. Could he perhaps have deliberately ventured towards the thaymount during the fall of eltabranar to see if he could tap that power to break his binding.
Ps love the new article
Glad you enjoyed it.
I'm not sure where you get that weave anchors contain a sentience. The copy of the Nether Scrolls stolen by the elves contained a sentience only because the elves desired a beneficial interface withe the scrolls tailored to them - that was the purpose of the High Magic ritual which transformed them.
In none of the information provided by Ed did it appear that the Athora contained a sentience. Of course, if you want it to, feel free.
As noted in the description of the item, the sheer magical power of the Athora boosts and bolsters magic in and around it. It also enhances the chance of successfully casting more powerful and complex magic - like the Orcgate, Eltab's summoning and imprisonment and the summoning of the avatar of Kossuth. I confined my thoughts to that aspect of the Athora's power.
Eltab didn't go near the Thayan Plateau after his Great Conflagration summoning because that's not what he was tasked to do: they summoned him to go after Rashemen, which was believed to be the roadblock in respect of defeating Raumathar.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 02:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Hi George,
I've a question regarding Lost Empires of Faerun, I'm trying with you since the authors are not active anymore on these forums and you are listed as one of the developers (and it's Eltab-related).
<BIG SNIP>
Does the above make sense? Please feel free to confirm, deny and comment in any possible way.
All of this perfectly reasonable but I note that LEoF states that he's Eltab's emissary to Faerûn, not necessarily Narfell.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Now some questions: any informations on the priest of Horus-Re that performed the banishing-on-steroids or on his family line, temple, specific order? He seems to be a pretty mighty fellow for not being an incarnation (he was not the Pharaoh and since he was in the church of Horus-Re I doubt he was an incarnation of another member of the pantheon).
I agree with sleyvas' comments on this. I always considered that there were a lot of incarnations and that in addition there was THE incarnation of a particular deity who had heightened powers to the others.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Also an epic spell that banishes powerful outsiders for 2000 years suggests that Mulhorand at the time had magic and weapons ready to confront summoned beings (which makes sense if they were keeping watch on Narfell and suspected future problems with them) but that they lost such magic by the time the Red Wizards succesfully revolted (and were probably not happy at discovering that the Hadryllis in Sultim was an excellent forgery ... I wonder if the Witches of Rashemen realised they had an hand in the founding of Thay by robbing Mulhorand of the weapon needed to kick Eltab's butt, that would be surely bad press for them if the matter became of public notice), so any idea what might have happened?
I'd prefer not to postulate on how the real Hadryllis disappeared from Mulhorand. Why fill in that blank when it provides such juicy, potential stories going forward ...?
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Regarding Eltab proper, how do you see his involvement with Narfell before his direct summoning and binding (if there was any, which now I think there was, through Wendonai)? He didn't try too hard to establish his own ruling dynasty but maybe he sponsored or sired some dignitaries of the Empire?
You have to realise that the Crell Dynasty was started by the Orcus worshipping Thargaun, but that his successors had no great allegiance to the Abyss. The early Narfelli were fiend worshippers and summoners - generic fiend worshippers. They summoned devils, daemons and demons and used the Blood War to play off various factions against others for their personal power.
This attitude precipitated the Graz'zt sponsored coup of the Orgolath Dynasty, who succumbed to that demon prince of the Abyss' promises of power and wanted a "purer" Narfell than the disparate and disunited early version of that realm. It may have been that Eltab was making similar moves and promises which prompted Graz'zt to weaken his opponent's position by letting the Narfelli known the means by which they could summon Wendonai as a weapon in their attempt to overthrow the Old Empires. Lots of different permutation and options here.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Would Wendonai's schemes find fertile soil in Undrek'Thoz, the segmented city populated by the descendants of the drow of Narathmault? It seems too peaceful of a place, sitting right below Thay but with no recorded history of strife between them and Mulhorand or Thay (even at it's weakest right after the indipendence), it seems they preferred to bother the elves in the Yuirwood instead of striking at the humans above their heads, which is strange, maybe there is something between them shielding the surface? Is the Athora to blame? And do the drow know or sense the presence of such an artifact?
Undrek'Thoz is an interesting place. And it does appear odd that they haven't really interacted with modern Thay. I can't say I've turned my mind as to why that might be. I know why they focused on the Yuir: that was because the elves of Myth Drannor created the new mythal city of Myth Tarranvar, which was considered a direct threat and something to be destroyed - which they did once its ties with the City of Song were severed following the Fall. Again, ample room for discussion and hypotheticals.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 20 Aug 2018 02:39:59 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 02:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.
Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?
PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 03:06:43
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On to things Impilturian and the convoluted family tree of the Heltharn family for Icelander.
Yes, there is a complete family tree of the Heltharns but it has never been publicly disseminated.
The date of Kuskur's birth in GhotR is wrong. The CoV date is correct and he's the eldest son from Imphras' second marriage.
Yes, the family tree you set out in your post on the "Impilturian Lore" thread is correct.
Some birth/death dates for you:
Soarimbrar "the Elder": b. 1243, d. 1294.
Verlimlaun: b. 1293, d. 1338.
Ilmara (daughter of Verimlaun): b. early 1334 and still alive.
Soarimbrar "the Elder" married late in life in 1285 DR to Ilsyndra Vilindeth. She died in 1328 DR of old age.
Verimlaun married Syndaera Hornwind in 1333 DR. She also died in 1338 DR.
Ilmara's husband is the nobleman Horgrim Garammon. He's a hale and hearty 49 as at the date of Imbrar's impending coronation and 9 years older than his wife.
Hope this is helpful.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 04:28:05
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Grand, George!
My thanks for the lore. Let me know if I've become importunate. Until such time, I'll hazard my luck to weasel a few more details of precious lore from ye.
I note that when Horgrim Garammon married Ilmara (must have been at least nine months before the end of 1350 DR), her brother Soarimbrar 'the Younger' still lived and could be expected to rule and have heirs of his own. Still, she was a 15-16 year old princess in a position to birth heirs who might ascend to the throne if her brother died before having male issue, a not unknown problem for kings.
Given that Ilmara was an orphan, who had to give consent for the marriage, which must have been considered of dynastic importance? She's likely to have been 'a ward of the Crown', but in practical terms, who stood in in loco parentis for her and Soarimbrar between 1338-1350? Queen-Regent Sambryl? One of the Lords of Imphras II? Or someone else?
I know Horgrim adopted the surname Heltharn upon the marriage, but what was his title (if any) before he married? And what is it in 1373 DR?
Also, what's his familial relationship with the other Garammons you've mentioned? If the young King Imbrar II has close relatives on his father's side, the Garammon noble family may be about to see their fortunes rise in his reign.
(And I haven't even mentioned Lothchas again, 'the Ice Gorge' and the circumstances of his possible demise, which I fully intend to do once you've had some breathing space) |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 20 Aug 2018 04:28:52 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 04:51:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Grand, George!
My thanks for the lore. Let me know if I've become importunate. Until such time, I'll hazard my luck to weasel a few more details of precious lore from ye.
I note that when Horgrim Garammon married Ilmara (must have been at least nine months before the end of 1350 DR), her brother Soarimbrar 'the Younger' still lived and could be expected to rule and have heirs of his own. Still, she was a 15-16 year old princess in a position to birth heirs who might ascend to the throne if her brother died before having male issue, a not unknown problem for kings.
Given that Ilmara was an orphan, who had to give consent for the marriage, which must have been considered of dynastic importance? She's likely to have been 'a ward of the Crown', but in practical terms, who stood in in loco parentis for her and Soarimbrar between 1338-1350? Queen-Regent Sambryl? One of the Lords of Imphras II? Or someone else?
I know Horgrim adopted the surname Heltharn upon the marriage, but what was his title (if any) before he married? And what is it in 1373 DR?
Also, what's his familial relationship with the other Garammons you've mentioned? If the young King Imbrar II has close relatives on his father's side, the Garammon noble family may be about to see their fortunes rise in his reign.
(And I haven't even mentioned Lothchas again, 'the Ice Gorge' and the circumstances of his possible demise, which I fully intend to do once you've had some breathing space)
You're very lucky at the moment as I am off work on holidays!
Horgrim and Ilmara were married in very late 1349 DR. It wasn't normal form for the Heltharns to marry at such a young age but given that both her parents were dead, it was considered an appropriate match. In the intervening period, Ilmara and Soarimbrar were under the care of their aunt Almarae (b. 1289 DR), Verlimlaun's older sister. She was married to Lord Hlandrar Eirlthaun, but theirs was a barren marriage both in terms of love and children. Aunt Almarae was a shrew, bitter and sarcastic and full of cutting comments. Ilmara left that household as soon as she possibly could.
Horgrim is a younger cousin of the Garammon family and not in the direct succession. As such, he is simply a "lord" (or in Damaran a "dar"). Of course, the head of the Garammon family Felimbrar takes pains to keep a good relationship with him. Given Felimbrar is a bit strict and stuffy, that's always an interesting interaction. Imbrar does spend time on occasion with the younger (and very much more sheltered) House Garammon heir Imphras, who is a bit like the little brother he never had. Imbrar very much misses his big brother, whom he remembers only fleetingly.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 18:34:29
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Thanks again, George.
The poor Heltharns don't seem to have much luck, with most of them leading fairly melancholy lives. The young orphans, Ilmara and Soarimbrar, shuttled off to a loveless home with a bitter shrew of an aunt, he dies before reaching the age of majority, while she's lost a son, and Imbrar a brother.
Can I at least imagine that Ilmara and Horgrim were happy in their marriage?
In Earth history, for a noblewoman to give birth to a live child at sixteen and then not until she is twenty four, and then despite having a very strong incentive to have more children, not doing so again, it would suggest that there might be a problem with giving birth of healthy children, perhaps because of a narrow pelvis. Or perhaps there were several miscarriages or difficult births where the children did not survive.
On the other hand, with the magical and clerical resources to a princess of a powerful kingdom, that is perhaps not as likely in the Realms.
Hopefully, between Imphras and Imbrar, Ilmara and Horgrim had two or three healthy girls that weren't recorded in the GHotR dynasty list, and were deliriously happy. At least one Heltharn ought to be. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 20 Aug 2018 18:34:52 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2018 : 19:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Thanks again, George.
The poor Heltharns don't seem to have much luck, with most of them leading fairly melancholy lives. The young orphans, Ilmara and Soarimbrar, shuttled off to a loveless home with a bitter shrew of an aunt, he dies before reaching the age of majority, while she's lost a son, and Imbrar a brother.
Can I at least imagine that Ilmara and Horgrim were happy in their marriage?
In Earth history, for a noblewoman to give birth to a live child at sixteen and then not until she is twenty four, and then despite having a very strong incentive to have more children, not doing so again, it would suggest that there might be a problem with giving birth of healthy children, perhaps because of a narrow pelvis. Or perhaps there were several miscarriages or difficult births where the children did not survive.
On the other hand, with the magical and clerical resources to a princess of a powerful kingdom, that is perhaps not as likely in the Realms.
Hopefully, between Imphras and Imbrar, Ilmara and Horgrim had two or three healthy girls that weren't recorded in the GHotR dynasty list, and were deliriously happy. At least one Heltharn ought to be.
Well you could think that, but the Realms is a dangerous world, just like ours. Bad things happen every day.
And you have to feel sorry for Almarae, for she wasn't always like that. In fact in her youth she used to be bright, vivacious and an absolute sweetheart. But losing the love of your life after only 3 years of marriage, not having children, and finding that to you, no other man really measures up can make you a little bitter and twisted when you are a widow for over 40 years. Sure, she could have loved her brother's kids like her own - and she did love them in terms of looking after them, protecting them, etc.: she nursed poor Imphras V from the day he took ill to the day of his passing. In fact is it thought that nursing him broke her own health leading to her demise the year after his - but she wasn't great at showing it and even more poor at communicating it.
Indeed, Ilmara has two daughters, Syndaera (b. 1353 DR) and Hamalia (b. 1356 DR). Imbrar's older sisters dote on him and he loves them dearly, even if he doesn't show it much because he is a teen and like "the king!"
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2018 : 00:08:36
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Great lore, George!
So the young King-to-be Imbrar II has two sisters to marry off to important lynchpins of his Greater Impiltur dream? Say, to a son of King Gareth Dragonsbane*, or, of course, to Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood. Unless there are some obstacles in the way, like Horgrim and Ilmara having already consented to a marriage for Syndaera (at twenty, she might well be married already) and Hamalia. Or King Imbrar II thinking that no one lesser than Torm the True himself is worthy of marrying his sisters.
*If King Gareth has managed to sire such a thing on Queen Christine, that is. It would be perfect if they'd gotten around to having an heir in 1359-1360 DR, just after they married, but in a pinch, a few more years of age difference won't necessarily be a deal breaker to a dynastic marriage. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 21 Aug 2018 00:37:11 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2018 : 03:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hi George,
Random question about Sarphil and Dareth and the Old Empires.
I keep finding detail about dwarves around the Semphar/Murghom area that left the region after mines played out. This group of dwarves supposedly moved on to found Dareth and also created the Citadel of Black Ash (before it was named thus by Gilgeam).
Now Dareth is a long way away and I don't envisage the dwarves just headed straight there (how would they know what they are looking for firstly). So I'm imagining along the way to Dareth a number of dwarfholds were founded as they moved north through Thay, Thesk, the Vast/Galenas and north to Dareth.
But the implication from other sources I find is that Sarphil is founded by dwarves out of Shanatar as part of the dwarven diaspora, but I get the feeling that when Great Bhaerynden was destroyed some dwarves went to Murghom/Semphar and the mountains around there and remained there until -7600 when they retook the Great Rift. The mines then played out in the region and the dwarves abandoned it (might explain why steel is little used in Unther/Mulhorand as it is in short supply).
Have you any thoughts on Sarphil and its original founding (not its refounding). The dwarven migrations are a bit messy and I know you and Eric worked on them a little bit.
The write-up of Dareth in FR11 "Dwarves Deep" (p.54) makes it clear that the dwarves who first settled here came from worked out mines/holds "in the mountains south and west of Unther and Mulhorand". That gives you the Great Rift, the Uthangol Mountains, etc. Dareth was founded in -2642 DR according to the sources.
The exodus from Bhaerynden to establish what will be Shanatar occurs in -11000 DR. Bhaerynden itself falls in -9000 DR. The dwarves return to what is now the Great Rift in c. -7600 DR. From where the dwarves "return" is not stated. Could be a reverse exodus from Shanatar or more likely from minor dwarf holds in the surrounding region that the dwarves established after the fall of Bhaerynden, united under some great leader to "reclaim their birthright".
GHotR surprisingly doesn't give us the founding date of Sarphil, which is -7500 DR according to "Cormanthyr" and "Serpent KIngdoms". I don't think that the dwarves would have re-established themselves in the Great Rift and then a century later travelled a long way north to establish Sarphil. The founding date of Sarphil speaks of a longer, slower migration north by the dwarves.
My view is that there were two migrations. The first after the fall of Bhaerynden saw dwarves travel north (for there were no Old Empires at that time) and then under the Sea of Fallen Stars to emerge in the Earthspurs and ultimately found Sarphil. This took a while and they left some dwarf holds along the way (ala Ironfang Keep (or Deep) in the mountains of Turmish depending on which version/spelling you prefer).
The second migration founded Dareth and went east and north up through the Sunrise Mountains, probably from around -3000 DR. It was likely caused by dwarves seeking to escape the well-established clans and holdings of the gold dwarves of the Great Rift. Of course some of that migration may have looked to reclaim some of the ancient workings in Murghom and Semphar and likely accounts for the current-day dwarves of the Firepeaks and Mountains of Copper. Again, there are no Old Empires at this time (and won't be for 5-8 centuries). Imaskar is there of course but it would appear that the dwarves skirted that great empire and sought to avoid its attentions or were suffered to live in Imaskari territory as long as they traded and forged with the Artificers. It may well have been a match made in heaven for those dwarves who hung around in that region and did not continue north. The sources make it clear that the Raumathari at the very least had an accomodation with the dwarves of the region.
So anyway, that's my take. I am firmly of the view that Sarphil was not established by Shanataran dwarves or dwarves from any of the other North Kingdoms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2018 : 03:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Great lore, George!
So the young King-to-be Imbrar II has two sisters to marry off to important lynchpins of his Greater Impiltur dream? Say, to a son of King Gareth Dragonsbane*, or, of course, to Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood. Unless there are some obstacles in the way, like Horgrim and Ilmara having already consented to a marriage for Syndaera (at twenty, she might well be married already) and Hamalia. Or King Imbrar II thinking that no one lesser than Torm the True himself is worthy of marrying his sisters.
*If King Gareth has managed to sire such a thing on Queen Christine, that is. It would be perfect if they'd gotten around to having an heir in 1359-1360 DR, just after they married, but in a pinch, a few more years of age difference won't necessarily be a deal breaker to a dynastic marriage.
The 4E FR Campaign Book makes it clear that Gareth Dragonsbane had heirs (his last heir is said to have been killed "20 years ago") but that his line died out and that a Yarin Frostmantle is now ruler of Damara. I can see there being dynastic ties between Damara and Impiltur, because there have been already (at least in my Realms): the reigning King Aeldrin of Damara married Sambral, sister to King Rilimbrar, in 1303DR.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 21 Aug 2018 03:40:04 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2018 : 20:14:25
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Connections between the Heltharn dynasty of Impiltur and the Bloodfeathers of Damara
If King Virdin Bloodfeathers of Damara was a 'young king' when he died in 1357 DR by order of Zhengyi the Witch-King, he was probably the grandson of King Aeldrin and Queen Sambral Ilmara (m. 1303 DR) of Damara. If I'm not way off base with that guess, it would make him the first cousin once removed of Queen-Regent Sambryl of Impiltur.
Assuming that any other surviving members of the royal family of Damara were among the 'most loyal and powerful nobles' of Damara that the forces of the Grandfather of Assassins slew on behalf of the Witch-King in that one bloody night in 1357 DR, it adds a touch of personal tragedy for Queen Sambryl to the fall of the allied kingdom of Damara, as she lost cousins, perhaps quite a lot of them.
That certainly justifies the personal interest that the Lords of Impras II took in chaotic Damara in these years, as well as providing a reason they might not have taken King Gareth Dragonsbane at face value and welcomed him as a trusted allied sovereign immediately, as he was effectively replacing a dynasty that had become linked with the Heltharn dynasty.
Some of the Lords of Imphras II might instead have wished to support an Impilturan to the throne of Damara, someone who would be Sambral's Ilmara's heir by Impilturan law. That may be one of the reasons why the Lords Haelimbrar and Lashilaun rode with the Twilight Riders in disguise in the year when Baron Gareth Dragonsbane was gathering support and power to become King of Damara.
King-to-be Imbrar II and Dynastic Marriages
I don't mean to imply that I necessarily intend to have King Imbrar II succeed at all his grand plans or even to come across like a sly, manipulative Hapsburg aunt plotting continental dominion through the dynastic marriage bed.*
It's just, where we currently are in our campaign, King-to-be Imbrar II is coming into his own as a precocious, ambitious, and awesomely gifted 'Young Alexander' type of warrior king and what this prodigiously gifted young man does over the next few years is probably going to be a source of news, adventure hooks and unintended consequences for PCs with ties to the Vast. Especially PCs who are Ravens Bluff nobility, with personal relationships with nobles in Tantras and a friendly acquaintanceship with Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood of Procampur himself.
Having studied his histories, King-to-be Imbrar II must be aware of the value of dynastic marriages in forging a strong realm with secure allegiances. Of course, no matter how gifted, Imbrar cannot have much political experience at age 15**, so it's likely that his plans will be somewhat naive, simplistic and fail to take into account the fact that people are not just 'good' (and on his side) and 'evil' (and thus foes to be slain).
Thus, in my campaign, King-to-be Imbrar II probably looks at the benefits that he believes would ensue from an eventual annexation of Procampur*** to Impiltur through a dynastic marriage and imagines that Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood, being a good and wise ruler, can be brought around to see his point of view.
It won't necessarily occur to the young king (or least be sufficiently accounted for in his mind) that nobles of Procampur and Tsurlagol, let alone other cities of the Vast, can oppose his grand vision out of conservative distrust of imperial Impiltur, reactionary nationalism, narrow dynastic or economic self-interest or any other of a wide range of reasons that don't just boil down to 'being evil and a foe of the Triad'.
Incidentally, Thultyrl Rendeth/Rendath of the Royal Blood is noted as being 'young' in 1357-1359 DR and 1372 DR, which I imagine makes him 16-20 years old in the prior period and in his early thirties in 1372 DR. Given that Thultyrl Rendath/Rendeth of the Royal Blood was already an 11th level Cavalier in 1357 DR (and an 11th level Fighter [presumably with the Cavalier kit] in 1359 DR), maybe he ought to be at least twenty, unless he was similarly precocious and martially gifted as King-to-be Imbrar II in his youth.
Thultyrl Rendeth is specified as being unmarried and without heirs in 1359 DR, but no mention is made of a wife and/or heirs (or lack thereof) in the FRCS in 1372 DR. In my campaign, I've chosen to have him unwilling to marry because of a broken heart, after the love of his youthful career as a questing cavalier died before he could marry her. I haven't elaborated on that backstory, but probably will need to do so when the PCs next pay a visit to Procampur.
Granted, Thultyrl Rendeth could be queerer than a three dollar note, but in that case, it shouldn't really interfere with him marrying and siring heirs for dynastic reasons, especially not if all his nobles and advisers keep pushing him to do so. Better if he is a romantic who wants to marry for love, but can't find anyone who (in his mind) compares to the love of his youth.
Of course, Thultyrl Rendeth is a thoroughly nice guy, having obeyed a Cavalier's Code at least until 1357 DR and been listed as Neutral Good in all sources where his alignment is listed. He also seems incredibly loyal and trusting, not having developed any suspicions of Hamayarch Alamondh despite his closest adviser and real ruler of the city having been an evil mage in disguise, plotting against him, at least since 1359 DR and the people of the city having started gossiping about their distrust of the Hamayarch.
Though, you know, it would be a real boon to Impiltur's fortuntes in the 1370s if the Heltharns happened to count a royal matchmaking figure of advancing years to provide wise counsel to the young king and his unmarried relatives. Is there anyone of that nature in your Impiltur?
**Granted, G. Octavius Thurinus (Octavianus, later Augustus), was the most astute political operator of 1st century BCE Rome, certainly a place filled with scheming, manipulative politicians, before he was twenty. But you described Imbrar as a 'young Alexander', not a 'young Octavian', and it might be piling blessings upon genius to make King-to-be Imbrar II a combination of two of the most naturally gifted youths in history.
***And if Procampur were once more a part of Impiltur, the economic, military and political realities would exert a very strong pull toward making Tsurlagol and the rest of the Dragonshoulder again Impilturan, as they would hardly have the strength to resist, and would need an allegiance against various threats from the Earthfasts in any case. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
|
Edited by - Icelander on 23 Aug 2018 12:06:22 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2018 : 21:48:19
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Protectors of King-to-be Imbrar II
Related to our discussion, George, I came across something Eytan Bernstein wrote about Impiltur and the protection of its secret royal heir.
quote:
Originally written by Eytan Bernstein in Class Chronicles: Psionic Classes
Based in Impiltur, there is a unit of the Knights of Imphras II known as the Order of the Bladewright. These soulknives serve their country, dedicating themselves, body and mind, to the protection of the hidden Boy King, who is himself secretly a member of the Knights of Imphras II. Considering the frequent assassinations of kings in Impiltur's history, the crown is taking no chances with its heir, keeping him under constant protection despite his many protests.
Is this Order something that you would use in your Impiltur, George?
If you would, do you have thoughts on why these knights would call themselves 'The Order of the Bladewright'? Is there a Triad saint or Impilturan legend about a heroic blademaker?
I know that psionic soulknives can make semi-solid mind blades and that 'bladewright' might just refer to that ability, but the use of the singular in the name of the Order seems to suggest that they are referencing someone that Impilturan people would recognise, even if that allusion is made because of their own mind blade ability.
Also, if you were to use this Order of the Bladewright in your Impiltur, would you have any ideas for important members of the Order? |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 21 Aug 2018 23:59:42 |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 19:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.
Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?
PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.
-- George Krashos
Hello, i'm interesting too. Can you send me a copy ?
I send you a PM.
Thanks. |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 02:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Protectors of King-to-be Imbrar II
Related to our discussion, George, I came across something Eytan Bernstein wrote about Impiltur and the protection of its secret royal heir.
quote:
Originally written by Eytan Bernstein in Class Chronicles: Psionic Classes
Based in Impiltur, there is a unit of the Knights of Imphras II known as the Order of the Bladewright. These soulknives serve their country, dedicating themselves, body and mind, to the protection of the hidden Boy King, who is himself secretly a member of the Knights of Imphras II. Considering the frequent assassinations of kings in Impiltur's history, the crown is taking no chances with its heir, keeping him under constant protection despite his many protests.
Is this Order something that you would use in your Impiltur, George?
If you would, do you have thoughts on why these knights would call themselves 'The Order of the Bladewright'? Is there a Triad saint or Impilturan legend about a heroic blademaker?
I know that psionic soulknives can make semi-solid mind blades and that 'bladewright' might just refer to that ability, but the use of the singular in the name of the Order seems to suggest that they are referencing someone that Impilturan people would recognise, even if that allusion is made because of their own mind blade ability.
Also, if you were to use this Order of the Bladewright in your Impiltur, would you have any ideas for important members of the Order?
Oh I include everything, no matter how much I have to smash that square peg into the round hole.
In the time of King Amarkos I of the Durlarven Dynasty (a confident and headstrong type, who would often take leave of his palace and guards and roam the countryside mixing with his subjects) the king was passing through the village of Narlburg, north of Lyrabar, when bandits decided to waylay the villagers and rob them of their scant coin. Amarkos took them on by himself but was sorely pressed, despite his magical protections, when the local smith, the burly Dorbol Laffos, snatched up a near-finished blade he had been toiling on for the village elder and came to his aid. Defeating the bandits, the grateful king made Dorbol a knight of the realm, and after consulting with the Royal Herald, his heraldic symbol was confirmed a silver sword standing upright above a black forge on an azure field and his "house" was dubbed House Bladewright. Dorbol's noble status ceased with his passing but the story of his defence of the king was made into a song by the local minstrel Tormolar "the Golden-Voiced" Essul - "The Ballad of the Bladewright" - and so his memory lived on in Impilturian folklore.
As noted, the Knights of Imphras II are the quasi-royal bodyguard of Imbrar II. Within their number are a dozen or so paladins who due to bloodlines stretching back to distant Jhaamdath, have nurtured a talent for the Invisible Art (the term "psionics" is not used in the Realms) and become multi-classed Mystics (see 5E Unearthed Arcana). These paladins call themselves the Order of the Bladewright due to their ability to manifest weapons using the Invisible Art (in game terms they have taken the Order of the Soul Knife option) and the fact that they are tasked with guarding the young king in situations where weapons cannot be carried (occasional diplomatic visits, religious events, etc.) - harking back to the tale of Dorbol and his defence of his king. That moniker is an informal one, used among themselves, but the leaders of the Knights are aware of it and have no issue with its use among the rank and file. If enough individuals can be found who have these particular talents, the Order of the Bladewright might one day become a full-fledged sub-order of the Knights of Imphras II.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 02:45:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Connections between the Heltharn dynasty of Impiltur and the Bloodfeathers of Damara
<SNIP>
Spot on.
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
King-to-be Imbrar II and Dynastic Marriages
<BIG SNIP>
You're correct in surmising that Imbrar is not both Alexander and Octavian. He's intelligent but lacking in wisdom due to his tender years, and his emotional maturity while solid for his age isn't advanced. He dreams of a "greater Impiltur" having grown up on tales of brave kings conquering foreign lands and noting that at various times in its history Impiltur has annexed the city-states to the west, much of the Great Dale and even parts of Thesk. Truth be told, Imbrar is a bit if a glory-seeker and he is looking to make his own mark in the world, outside the stilted environment created by the Council and Queen-Regent.
For that reason, I don't think he'd be keen on a dynastic, loveless marriage - but if Rendeth has a hot daughter, anything could happen. The issue is, the rule of Procampur is likely to be through a male line as well, and marrying off a daughter to the king of Impiltur is unlikely to lead to a conclusion that they should become a part of that realm if she is Rendeth's only offspring. They'll find someone else "of the Royal Blood" to succeed and it is very likely that such a situation would play right into the hands of the Hamayarch.
I see Impiltur's attentions turning to Procampur after a few years of Imbrar being on the throne. Those attentions are very likely to turn ugly if Procampur doesn't recognise the "greater good" of joining Impiltur.
As for a royal matchmaker, the closest version of that is Aunt Eldreene, the wife of the much-loved and dearly missed Kyrlraun of the Council of Lords. Only 58 as at 1372 DR, she is kind, observant and still vital member of the Heltharn extended family, known to be the person to go to for a cup of redleaf tea when anyone had a "problem". She is full of wisdom, good advice and is a vault. She also looks out for the many, scattered young Heltharns (lots of great-nephews and nieces and "removed" cousins) and has been known to broker marriages between the Heltharns and the various noble families of the realm as well as her greatest coup, "setting up" Lords Imbraun and Sambrar (now tragically dead) with the sisters Ardythe and Ardawn Rowanmantle of Cormyr on a state visit way back in the 1330s DR.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 02:47:22 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 07:22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.
Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?
PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.
-- George Krashos
Hello, i'm interesting too. Can you send me a copy ?
I send you a PM.
Thanks.
Hi Asharak
I sent you a copy on 21/8. Please check and let me know if you received it.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 07:22:55 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 08:41:56
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Procampur
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
You're correct in surmising that Imbrar is not both Alexander and Octavian. He's intelligent but lacking in wisdom due to his tender years, and his emotional maturity while solid for his age isn't advanced. He dreams of a "greater Impiltur" having grown up on tales of brave kings conquering foreign lands and noting that at various times in its history Impiltur has annexed the city-states to the west, much of the Great Dale and even parts of Thesk. Truth be told, Imbrar is a bit if a glory-seeker and he is looking to make his own mark in the world, outside the stilted environment created by the Council and Queen-Regent.
For that reason, I don't think he'd be keen on a dynastic, loveless marriage - but if Rendeth has a hot daughter, anything could happen. The issue is, the rule of Procampur is likely to be through a male line as well, and marrying off a daughter to the king of Impiltur is unlikely to lead to a conclusion that they should become a part of that realm if she is Rendeth's only offspring. They'll find someone else "of the Royal Blood" to succeed and it is very likely that such a situation would play right into the hands of the Hamayarch.
I see Impiltur's attentions turning to Procampur after a few years of Imbrar being on the throne. Those attentions are very likely to turn ugly if Procampur doesn't recognise the "greater good" of joining Impiltur.
I suppose that King-to-be Imbrar II imagines that if he and Rendeth of the Royal Blood were linked through a marriage pact, Procampur and Impiltur would be riding to war together.
Summers in the Earthfast and Grey Forest, to finally eradicate the threat to travelers north to the Vast, and, equally important, to those who travel from the Vast between the rivers to Impiltur (and Procampur). Lighting raids with their navies working in tandem where they take, sink or burn all pirate ships around each island of the Unfallen Stars, working north to south.
And that's just the first few years, which are unambiguously strategic goals for Procampur as well. When it comes time for the Great Dale and Thesk, King-to-be Imbrar II no doubt imagines that his father-in-law/brother-in-law (depending on the breaks) will be such a firm friend to him and their armies so used to working together, that it will prove easy to get the support of Procampur's* forces for future campaigns.
*With sixteen famously fast and nimble warships, noted for their quality and that of their crews, and around 4000 professional warriors on land, Procampur's forces are adding at least a solid 20% to the Impilturan army on land and between 33% to 60% at sea, depending on what metric we use.
Genealogy and Marriages
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
As for a royal matchmaker, the closest version of that is Aunt Eldreene, the wife of the much-loved and dearly missed Kyrlraun of the Council of Lords. Only 58 as at 1372 DR, she is kind, observant and still vital member of the Heltharn extended family, known to be the person to go to for a cup of redleaf tea when anyone had a "problem". She is full of wisdom, good advice and is a vault. She also looks out for the many, scattered young Heltharns (lots of great-nephews and nieces and "removed" cousins) and has been known to broker marriages between the Heltharns and the various noble families of the realm as well as her greatest coup, "setting up" Lords Imbraun and Sambrar (now tragically dead) with the sisters Ardythe and Ardawn Rowanmantle of Cormyr on a state visit way back in the 1330s DR.
-- George Krashos
My sincere thanks.
Love Eldreeen and love a connection with, as you say, the much lamented Kyrlraun, whom I'd imagined as more-or-less ruling Impiltur for Queen-Regent Sharshal, until an author killed him off-screen.
And I'm tickled pink that Lords Haelimbrar and Engarth, some of my favourite living lords, are Cormyrean on their mothers side. The PCs, though they are Ravennar nobility and/or merchant lords now, are descended from clansmen in the Thunder Peaks whose self-image is complicated, but, as they serve in large numbers in the Purple Dragons, most outsiders considered merely Cormyrean.
It's interesting to me that Lord Haelimbrar is regarded as the 'hardened veteran' among the Lords of Imphras II, but his young nephew, Engarth, is actually a much better warrior (BAB +14 vs. BAB +18; they have the same classes, but Lord Engarth is simply 4 levels higher) and, at least by game rules, probably a better battlemaster. Even Lord Helimbraun is higher level than Haelimbrar, although they have the same Basic Attack Bonus (BAB +14).
Assuming that King-to-be Imbrar II has spotted that Lord Haelimbrar is much less experienced and effective than some other Lords, expected to see a seismic shift in the authority over the Warswords. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 23 Aug 2018 08:44:48 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 09:19:06
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The Rowanmantle sisters were married to Lords Imbraun and Sambrar, sons of Lasheela and Delmatha of the Dowager Aunts. Ardythe is Haelimbrar's sister-in-law so he has no Cormyrean blood. The younger Lords Engarth and Helimbraun are the ones with ties to Cormyr. Then again, all of Sambral's kids and grandkids have Cormyrean blood as her husband was a Huntsilver.
Which leads me to a snafu of mine in terms of the Impiltur succession, which I have to fix! This happens a lot as it is such a convoluted family.
I note that for some unknown reason, the editors at Dragon changed Engarth in my Dragon #346 Impiltur article. He was originally named Selbraun in my submission and a paladin of Lathander (due to Richard Lee Byers reference in The Rage to a member of the Council wearing the symbol of Lathander (p.228) - because I'm the square peg guy: no offence to Rich but they should all have been paladins of the Triad). They changed his name and made him a paladin of Torm and statted him up as more powerful than I had him. Still don't know why to this day. So Engarth is my ugly step-child, and I'm not responsible! They also garbled up my reference to the Dowager Aunts being descended from the sixth son Fylraun, but in hindsight I note that I've got it wrong because Champions of Valor says they are descended from the 4th and 6th sons. As I recall that was actually one of the things Eric Boyd came up with back in the day.
So now more fixes! Lasheela and Delmatha will now be the two "Dowager Aunts" descended from Fylraun and Sambral will be one of Soarimbrar the Elder's older sisters. I had a childless one in there, so it's an easy fix. That also makes the succession change if Imbrar dies childless (which he does ... *cough* Spellplague *cough*). The successor is now actually Engarth which fits in nicely as I had plans for his uncle Haelimbrar following the Spellplague.
Thanks for all these questions and comments Icelander. You and Lucas Kaine have over the years helped me out immensely by asking stuff that made me look and re-look at Impiltur.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 09:42:59 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 09:22:56
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Order of the Bladewright
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh I include everything, no matter how much I have to smash that square peg into the round hole.
In the time of King Amarkos I of the Durlarven Dynasty (a confident and headstrong type, who would often take leave of his palace and guards and roam the countryside mixing with his subjects) the king was passing through the village of Narlburg, north of Lyrabar, when bandits decided to waylay the villagers and rob them of their scant coin. Amarkos took them on by himself but was sorely pressed, despite his magical protections, when the local smith, the burly Dorbol Laffos, snatched up a near-finished blade he had been toiling on for the village elder and came to his aid. Defeating the bandits, the grateful king made Dorbol a knight of the realm, and after consulting with the Royal Herald, his heraldic symbol was confirmed a silver sword standing upright above a black forge on an azure field and his "house" was dubbed House Bladewright. Dorbol's noble status ceased with his passing but the story of his defence of the king was made into a song by the local minstrel Tormolar "the Golden-Voiced" Essul - "The Ballad of the Bladewright" - and so his memory lived on in Impilturian folklore.
As noted, the Knights of Imphras II are the quasi-royal bodyguard of Imbrar II. Within their number are a dozen or so paladins who due to bloodlines stretching back to distant Jhaamdath, have nurtured a talent for the Invisible Art (the term "psionics" is not used in the Realms) and become multi-classed Mystics (see 5E Unearthed Arcana). These paladins call themselves the Order of the Bladewright due to their ability to manifest weapons using the Invisible Art (in game terms they have taken the Order of the Soul Knife option) and the fact that they are tasked with guarding the young king in situations where weapons cannot be carried (occasional diplomatic visits, religious events, etc.) - harking back to the tale of Dorbol and his defence of his king. That moniker is an informal one, used among themselves, but the leaders of the Knights are aware of it and have no issue with its use among the rank and file. If enough individuals can be found who have these particular talents, the Order of the Bladewright might one day become a full-fledged sub-order of the Knights of Imphras II.
-- George Krashos
Cool.
If I mean to feature these, from a practical point of view, bodyguards with invisible weapons they can draw at any time work best if they have cover identities that would make threats overlook them entirely.
Page boys, grooms, barber, minstrel, fellow squires, etc. Basically, if there are twelve of these fellows, there ought to be at least one person who handles their hair, dress and make-up, so they can reliably pass as younger than they are and thus seem plausible as part of the same entourage as Imbrar, without appearing threatening or as bodyguards.
Granted, some of the twelve will be older, too old for various Hollywood trickery to make them seem 13-17, and I'd cover one of these as the barber, one as a personal trainer and diet instructor and maybe one as the blacksmith (bladewright) in Count Ulimbrar's retinue.
Basically, anything that a knight can do, these can do... similarly. They're better employed providing security where a knight can't or where their mind blade would add a nasty surprise for a potential assassin. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 10:51:21
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The Rowanmantle sisters were married to Lords Imbraun and Sambrar, sons of Lasheela and Delmatha of the Dowager Aunts. Ardythe is Haelimbrar's sister-in-law so he has no Cormyrean blood. The younger Lords Engarth and Helimbraun are the ones with ties to Cormyr. Then again, all of Sambral's kids and grandkids have Cormyrean blood as her husband was a Huntsilver.
Which leads me to a snafu of mine in terms of the Impiltur succession, which I have to fix! This happens a lot as it is such a convoluted family.
I note that for some unknown reason, the editors at Dragon changed Engarth in my Dragon #346 Impiltur article. He was originally named Selbraun in my submission and a paladin of Lathander (due to Richard Lee Byers reference in The Rage to a member of the Council wearing the symbol of Lathander (p.228) - because I'm the square peg guy: no offence to Rich but they should all have been paladins of the Triad). They changed his name and made him a paladin of Torm and statted him up as more powerful than I had him. Still don't know why to this day. So Engarth is my ugly step-child, and I'm not responsible! They also garbled up my reference to the Dowager Aunts being descended from the sixth son Fylraun, but in hindsight I note that I've got it wrong because Champions of Valor says they are descended from the 4th and 6th sons. As I recall that was actually one of the things Eric Boyd came up with back in the day.
So now more fixes! Lasheela and Delmatha will now be the two "Dowager Aunts" descended from Fylraun and Sambral will be one of Soarimbrar the Elder's older sisters. I had a childless one in there, so it's an easy fix. That also makes the succession a bit neater as it keeps the heir if Imbrar dies childless (which he does ... *cough* Spellplague *cough*) in the line of Velimbrar, son of Imphras II.
Thanks for all these questions and comments Icelander. You and Lucas Kaine have over the years helped me out immensely by asking stuff that made me look and re-look at Impiltur.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 11:01:11
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Rowanmantle sisters were married to Lords Imbraun and Sambrar, sons of Lasheela and Delmatha of the Dowager Aunts. Ardythe is Haelimbrar's sister-in-law so he has no Cormyrean blood. The younger Lords Engarth and Helimbraun are the ones with ties to Cormyr. Then again, all of Sambral's kids and grandkids have Cormyrean blood as her husband was a Huntsilver.
Yeah, I meant to say that the puritanical Lord Helimbraun, the Master of Peccadillos and Enenemy of Other People's Fun, was one of my favourites, because he's an interesting source of conflict that can't just be killed.
Lord Engarth, then, is another favourite, because, well, he's clearly the Parmenion to the Young Alexander, i.e. one of the best generals in the world who will be loyal enough to cover the early blunders that his naive liege stumbles into. That is, of course, if he doesn't become his Hephaestion, as he's only twenty years older than the Boy King and likely to be one of the few other men in the world who knows how it is to grow up as a perfect warrior, with an instinctive talent for fighting and warfare, not to mention learning everything so quickly that they outstrip instructors by the score.
Lord Engarth already seems to be the finest knight in Impiltur, better at most everything than veterans almost two decades older than him, and, juding by the rate at which King-to-be Imbrar II has been improving in his early years, the only one who might one day surpass him is the Boy King.
And Lord Elgarth is his heir? That has potential intense friendship, intense rivalry or both. There is, at any rate, the potential for adventure, excitement and high melodrama. Which is all I have to ask, really.
Haelimbrar got into my post by mistake, as I have not yet found a firm hook for him. He's rugged, tenacious veteran knight, it is true, but while such are important to contrast the high-flyers, they are not usually thrilling. Int 10, Wis 14 are hardly all that impressive intellectual abilities and it's likely that in every command he has held, there have been men of sharper intellects and stronger will.*
*Before I saw these stats, I'd have made him a man of extremely impressive willpower, determination and the willingness to make hard choices. Now he's about average in that department, as paladins go, as becoming a paladin and continuing to live by their code for decades simply isn't for people without impressive dedication and willpower.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Which leads me to a snafu of mine in terms of the Impiltur succession, which I have to fix! This happens a lot as it is such a convoluted family.
I note that for some unknown reason, the editors at Dragon changed Engarth in my Dragon #346 Impiltur article. He was originally named Selbraun in my submission and a paladin of Lathander (due to Richard Lee Byers reference in The Rage to a member of the Council wearing the symbol of Lathander (p.228) - because I'm the square peg guy: no offence to Rich but they should all have been paladins of the Triad). They changed his name and made him a paladin of Torm and statted him up as more powerful than I had him. Still don't know why to this day. So Engarth is my ugly step-child, and I'm not responsible! They also garbled up my reference to the Dowager Aunts being descended from the sixth son Fylraun, but in hindsight I note that I've got it wrong because Champions of Valor says they are descended from the 4th and 6th sons. As I recall that was actually one of the things Eric Boyd came up with back in the day.
Is there any obstacle to having Lord Engarth (or another Lord) wear a piece of jewelry with the symbol of Lathander as a token of his lady-love?
It's not like knights of the Triad are not permitted love or that they cannot love people devoted to another faith, especially one of hope, renewal and the dawn, devoted to chasing away the evil of night like the mist of a morning.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
So now more fixes! Lasheela and Delmatha will now be the two "Dowager Aunts" descended from Fylraun and Sambral will be one of Soarimbrar the Elder's older sisters. I had a childless one in there, so it's an easy fix. That also makes the succession a bit neater as it keeps the heir if Imbrar dies childless (which he does ... *cough* Spellplague *cough*) in the line of Velimbrar, son of Imphras II.
Quick date check:
Soarimbrar "the Elder" was born in 1243 DR, married late in life in 1285 DR to Ilsyndra Vilindeth (d.1328 DR) and he died in 1294 DR.
Sambral, the eldest of the three 'Dowager Aunts', has henceforth been regarded as having been born in 1285 DR, albeit that was when she had different parents. Post-fix, was she somewhat of a surprise to a mistress Soarimbrar "the Elder" and the reason for his hasty late-life marriage?
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Thanks for all these questions and comments Icelander. You and Lucas Kaine have over the years helped me out immensely by asking stuff that made me look and re-look at Impiltur.
-- George Krashos
No, thank you.
This lore is making my campaign immeasurably richer. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 23 Aug 2018 11:03:25 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 11:12:06
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I posted before I got my family tree out and had a good look. It doesn't work if Sambral is one of Soarimbrar's older sisters, so she is in fact his niece, the second child of his older sister Jhesyl (b. 1241). She got married late in life too (1281 DR). So looking at the line of Velimbrar, that makes Sambral and Verimlaun first cousins, Kyrlraun and Ilmara second cousins and current lords Delimbrar and Idriane third cousins with Imbrar II.
Of course that makes the Sambral I married into the Bloodfeathers line in Damara too close in age with this Sambral so the Sambral that was the sister of Rilimbar is now an Ilmara.
Clear as mud? Thought so.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 11:21:20 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 11:48:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I posted before I got my family tree out and had a good look. It doesn't work if Sambral is one of Soarimbrar's older sisters, so she is in fact his niece, the second child of his older sister Jhesyl (b. 1241). She got married late in life too (1281 DR). So looking at the line of Velimbrar, that makes Sambral and Verimlaun first cousins, Kyrlraun and Ilmara second cousins and current lords Delimbrar and Idriane third cousins with Imbrar II.
Of course that makes the Sambral I married into the Bloodfeathers line in Damara too close in age with this Sambral so the Sambral that was the sister of Rilimbar is now an Ilmara.
Clear as mud? Thought so.
-- George Krashos
Eh...
Ambiguous wording.
The 1281 DR reference date, is that the birth of Sambral, as opposed to the date of her marriage? Because then this works, with only slight changes. It also works if it refers to the year of Jhesyl's marriage and then Sambral could retain her original birth year.
But if Sambral is meant to be married in 1281 (four years before her previous incarnation was born), it would be pretty odd for her to have her three children some two to three decades after marriage, at age 65-75 or so.
Also, it would be a mitzvah to correct older lore in older posts to account for this change, so that scribes don't get confused. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 23 Aug 2018 11:50:08 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2018 : 11:54:43
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Hehe, sorry for the confusion. Jhesyl was married in 1281 DR, Sambral was married in 1308 DR.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2018 : 19:38:07
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hi Asharak
I sent you a copy on 21/8. Please check and let me know if you received it.
-- George Krashos
I send you an e-mail. |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2018 : 23:07:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hi Asharak
I sent you a copy on 21/8. Please check and let me know if you received it.
-- George Krashos
I send you an e-mail.
I've re-sent it and not received a bounce back so if you haven't received it, the problem might b at your end re file size. It's a 5mb e-mail.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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