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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 06:26:51
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More like Decentralized Theocratic Monarchy (or Regency depending on what period you are playing).
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 03:05:56
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Krash, I found this query for you floating in the ether, from scribe Khondar:-
quote:
GK,
What relationship, if any, do the Bladebright dwarves have with the Iron House dwarves?
Do you have any numbers for the current population of Clan Bladebright and/or it's current leader (as of 1368 - during the Doom of Daggerdale).
As always - any ideas that you could share would be greatly appreciated!
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 04:03:03
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Hey Krash,
I was just reflecting on some stuff you wrote back in 2004 re: the "first flavour" piece for the speculative 'one day' product Phalorm: The Realm of Three Crowns... specifically, King Ruardh Lightshiver of Phalorm.
Did either you or Eric elaborate on him any further? I'm currently writing some background material for an ancient ballad from the days of Phalorm, and Lightshiver came up as a potential character I would like to cast in the musical piece. So any further details would be greatly appreciated. If not, I'm more than content to make it up as a I go, but I just thought I'd shake your mental tree first, and see what falls out.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2012 : 06:40:33
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| Why does Impiltur - a nation over a thousand years old - still have a 'frontier'? Not being facetious or anything - I was just re-reading your Impiltur article and I'm sure you've put some thought into it yourself. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Dec 2012 07:17:17 |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2012 : 22:56:08
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This is something I've been looking into for awhile, and I've decided to join Candlekeep just to fully understand. I have looked through some threads.
This may be a stupid question, but: I've read a few different labels of the government of Impiltur, but what I'm curious of is the direction of accountability. What I mean is how is the government organized? Obviously we have our King (or Queen-Regent and Lords), but from there where does it go? I mean does it funnel down into duchies and baronies, or are the cities responsible for themselves unless a matter requires the King (or whomever)? |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2012 : 02:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why does Impiltur - a nation over a thousand years old - still have a 'frontier'? Not being facetious or anything - I was just re-reading your Impiltur article and I'm sure you've put some thought into it yourself.
Magic...seriously; magic causes weird things to happen in a geo-political sense. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2012 : 06:15:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Krash, I found this query for you floating in the ether, from scribe Khondar:-
quote:
GK,
What relationship, if any, do the Bladebright dwarves have with the Iron House dwarves?
Do you have any numbers for the current population of Clan Bladebright and/or it's current leader (as of 1368 - during the Doom of Daggerdale).
As always - any ideas that you could share would be greatly appreciated!
I've long pondered the relationship (if any) between the Bladebright dwarves and those of the Iron House of Tethyamar. I considered it quite odd that Ghellin, king-in-exile of Tethyamar, would leave the environs of the Desertsmouth Mtns/Daggerdale and move all the way to the Far Hills, while his Bladebright kin would stay in the region.
That's why I've always thought that the Bladebright dwarves actually came to the region after the fall of Tethyamar, perhaps taking control of some outlying hold of the Tethyamar dwarves. Ed would be the best person to ask this as for all its "detail" the history of the Dalelands is not particularly well fleshed out.
As for numbers and/or name of a leader I would only be giving you my guess and name if I answered. I have no lore to base any such postulations on. Come up with whatever suits your campaign and game. The chances of your stuff being contradicted in any material other than Ed's scroll here, is practically zero.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2012 : 06:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why does Impiltur - a nation over a thousand years old - still have a 'frontier'? Not being facetious or anything - I was just re-reading your Impiltur article and I'm sure you've put some thought into it yourself.
I can't recall if I said that Impiltur had a frontier or said that the Uplands and the Farwater have a "frontier-feel".
While that might be a study in semantics, the easy answer to your question is "geography". It's an answer that would be right up your alley.
As you know, the nation of Impiltur wraps itself, from Lyrabar and the environs of the Grey Forest eastward, and then up and around west, northwest to places like Tower Ithfell. The Earthspurs are a formidable barrier and basically make the Easting Coast the place where all the cities are.
In the absence of cities and/or large settlements, we are left with many scattered smaller settlements, thaedar, mining communities etc. The farther we get from Sarshel, the greater the isolation. That's why Impiltur has a frontier-feel to it. It's the fact that there are wide-open spaces with little in the way of big population centres.
In a similar vein, the Heartlands remains "frontier" country notwithstanding that it has been settled for over a thousand years. Open, unclaimed space tends to attract that moniker.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 15 Dec 2012 06:41:25 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2012 : 14:38:27
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Yes, but the Western Heartlands are hotly contested by many groups, unlike Impiltur which is pretty-much left alone since the Hobgoblins were defeated.
I've been working on a new Impiltur map (as part of my new Eastern Heartlands map) and I'm embarrassed to say I put very little thought into the region with the first map I made of Impiltur. Now that I'm revisiting the area I have some nifty ideas, which I may want to run by you at some point. Basically I'm thinking after the first Impiltur (dynasty) fell, the country fell into disarray, and without much of a standing army (at least not in the northern parts), the 'high country' was left to fend for itself, which means that many outlying settlements would have been abandoned due to various threats (orcs, bandits, etc). The cities would have seen a sudden surge in population, while most of the smaller settlements would have become 'ghost towns'. Very few of those original settlements would have remained - thus, upper Impiltur would have gone back to being mostly a frontier, which then could have only been reclaimed within the past century or so. That means the Impilturan countryside should be littered with ruins (which just so happens to be what D&D is all about).
As for 'the wall' - I have some notions about what I'd like to do there, including a minor 'correction' (an actual change made with an in-game explanation). I've even sketched out the area to get a better idea of whats going on there - where can I find the most comprehensive lore about Impiltur (before your article)?
EDIT: Is Ilmwatch a large city or small city?
EDIT2: Is Tsurlagol a city or a town? The 3e map shows it as a port city, but I think that is incorrect. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Dec 2012 16:58:06 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2012 : 23:08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain
This is something I've been looking into for awhile, and I've decided to join Candlekeep just to fully understand. I have looked through some threads.
This may be a stupid question, but: I've read a few different labels of the government of Impiltur, but what I'm curious of is the direction of accountability. What I mean is how is the government organized? Obviously we have our King (or Queen-Regent and Lords), but from there where does it go? I mean does it funnel down into duchies and baronies, or are the cities responsible for themselves unless a matter requires the King (or whomever)?
The ostensible authority of the Crown is currently vested in the Lords of Imphras II, but in practical terms they cannot deal with every item of legal and administrative business that crops up on a daily basis throughout the kingdom. Given this, it is the local Royal Heralds who handle all administrative and civil business, while the Royal Constables deal with all criminal and "security" issues. Heralds and Constables are found in all of the major cities and are appointed by the Crown.
In more remote areas such as the Uplands, Royal Constables are found in the big fortress towns of Ithfell and Mal, but the Heralds have no permanent presence, using instead a system of roving Heralds who do a circuit of outlying areas along with at least six Royal Constables who have no permanent place of governance, but are used to trouble-shoot as required.
There are no "duchies" or "baronies" as administrative or legal entities in the realm although there are indeed ducal and baronial holdings. The nobility of Impiltur wield no direct power, but their influence is enormous, and many senior nobles act as quasi-advisors to resident Constables and Heralds on an ad-hoc basis. There have been occasions, due to death, illness or simple geography, where nobles have been given temporary standing to govern and make decisions, but these situations are rare and have never turned into a lasting or long-term arrangement. There are members of the nobility who have been or are Royal Constables and Royal Heralds, but their loyalty is to the Crown first and their families second - those who get those priorities wrong seldom last long in the position.
Both the Heralds and the Royal Constables located throughout Impiltur have a large staff of bureaucrats who do the heavy lifting regarding the day to day operations of the realm. Such support however becomes thin on the ground the further away you are from Lyrabar. The Royal Coinmaster (head tax collector) in Lyrabar for example, has some 50 staff reporting to him. The Royal Coinmaster at Tower Ithfell has a (harried) staff of about 4 individuals. Good help is hard to find.
It should be made clear that the Royal Heralds of Impiltur are connected with the High Heralds of Faerun, but unlike in Cormyr wield direct power. In Cormyr they function more as aides and advisers to local rulers. In Impiltur they have Crown authority vested in them directly, but it should be noted that Royal Constables outrank the Royal Heralds and can reverse their decisions and/or overrule them. In practice though, such decisions are deferred to the Lords.
Here are the individuals who govern in the name of the Crown in Impiltur (c. 1370 DR):
Lyrabar
Royal Constable: Brembar Wintersun
Royal Herald: Korthaun Morthil
Hlammach
Royal Constable: Tiringar Felnim
Royal Herald: Imdras Fairfollow
Dilpur
Royal Constable: Iolarth Greenbrook
Royal Herald: Kellana Dintersan
Sarshel
Royal Constable: Nelra "the Fair" Silverstar
Royal Herald: Faergaun Drell
Ilmwatch
Royal Constable: Imindarth Murn
Royal Herald: Nordell Longstride, "Old Gruff"
Tower Mal
Royal Constable: Laerthal "Swiftdoom" Starsunder
Tower Ithfell
Royal Constable: Cordebrar Antarn
Of the 'roving' Royal Constables, the most noteworthy are Wyaun "the Grim" Peldar (a man-mountain of stern countenance, biting wit and deadly with an axe), Taranthar Hawkblade and Elnarra Zelnass (a homely, pot-bellied red-head with iron self-control, inscrutable mien and ever-ready throwing daggers).
Some notable travelling Royal Heralds are Embrathaun Deephorn (a short, energetic, 'down to business'-type), Milbraun Evenstarth, Heleggar Forgecrown (of noble stock, sarcastic, and a very accurate 'reader' of people), Theldrar "Runedagger" Scorchspear and Belthrar Swiftarrow.
Hope this has been helpful.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 21 Dec 2012 23:29:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2012 : 23:28:14
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Since I see you are answering questions: Whats the deal with 'New Sarshel'? 
And does it have less calories? 
EDIT: Map's coming out damn pretty, if I do say so myself.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Dec 2012 23:29:39 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2012 : 01:52:45
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Tower Mal
Royal Constable: Laerthal "Swiftdoom" Starsunder
Tower Ithfell
Royal Constable: Cordebrar Antarn
I'm assuming there's another reason -- aside from the obvious one -- for why the Towers don't count Royal Heralds among those who govern in the name of the Crown? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2013 : 02:45:56
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| You mentioned that this bit of lore didn't make a ripple, but I couldn't go shouting on here that it is now in my Swords of the Moonsea game on someone's hip! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36882 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2013 : 05:10:33
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And I don't even know how I missed it... given the little musical tidbit Krash included [and that will soon be entered into my copious notebooks on the subject of musical Realmslore references].  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 07:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The ostensible authority of the Crown is currently vested in the Lords of Imphras II, but in practical terms they cannot deal with every item of legal and administrative business that crops up on a daily basis throughout the kingdom. Given this, it is the local Royal Heralds who handle all administrative and civil business, while the Royal Constables deal with all criminal and "security" issues. Heralds and Constables are found in all of the major cities and are appointed by the Crown.
In more remote areas such as the Uplands, Royal Constables are found in the big fortress towns of Ithfell and Mal, but the Heralds have no permanent presence, using instead a system of roving Heralds who do a circuit of outlying areas along with at least six Royal Constables who have no permanent place of governance, but are used to trouble-shoot as required.
There are no "duchies" or "baronies" as administrative or legal entities in the realm although there are indeed ducal and baronial holdings. The nobility of Impiltur wield no direct power, but their influence is enormous, and many senior nobles act as quasi-advisors to resident Constables and Heralds on an ad-hoc basis. There have been occasions, due to death, illness or simple geography, where nobles have been given temporary standing to govern and make decisions, but these situations are rare and have never turned into a lasting or long-term arrangement. There are members of the nobility who have been or are Royal Constables and Royal Heralds, but their loyalty is to the Crown first and their families second - those who get those priorities wrong seldom last long in the position.
Both the Heralds and the Royal Constables located throughout Impiltur have a large staff of bureaucrats who do the heavy lifting regarding the day to day operations of the realm. Such support however becomes thin on the ground the further away you are from Lyrabar. The Royal Coinmaster (head tax collector) in Lyrabar for example, has some 50 staff reporting to him. The Royal Coinmaster at Tower Ithfell has a (harried) staff of about 4 individuals. Good help is hard to find.
It should be made clear that the Royal Heralds of Impiltur are connected with the High Heralds of Faerun, but unlike in Cormyr wield direct power. In Cormyr they function more as aides and advisers to local rulers. In Impiltur they have Crown authority vested in them directly, but it should be noted that Royal Constables outrank the Royal Heralds and can reverse their decisions and/or overrule them. In practice though, such decisions are deferred to the Lords.
Here are the individuals who govern in the name of the Crown in Impiltur (c. 1370 DR):
Lyrabar
Royal Constable: Brembar Wintersun
Royal Herald: Korthaun Morthil
Hlammach
Royal Constable: Tiringar Felnim
Royal Herald: Imdras Fairfollow
Dilpur
Royal Constable: Iolarth Greenbrook
Royal Herald: Kellana Dintersan
Sarshel
Royal Constable: Nelra "the Fair" Silverstar
Royal Herald: Faergaun Drell
Ilmwatch
Royal Constable: Imindarth Murn
Royal Herald: Nordell Longstride, "Old Gruff"
Tower Mal
Royal Constable: Laerthal "Swiftdoom" Starsunder
Tower Ithfell
Royal Constable: Cordebrar Antarn
Of the 'roving' Royal Constables, the most noteworthy are Wyaun "the Grim" Peldar (a man-mountain of stern countenance, biting wit and deadly with an axe), Taranthar Hawkblade and Elnarra Zelnass (a homely, pot-bellied red-head with iron self-control, inscrutable mien and ever-ready throwing daggers).
Some notable travelling Royal Heralds are Embrathaun Deephorn (a short, energetic, 'down to business'-type), Milbraun Evenstarth, Heleggar Forgecrown (of noble stock, sarcastic, and a very accurate 'reader' of people), Theldrar "Runedagger" Scorchspear and Belthrar Swiftarrow.
Hope this has been helpful.
-- George Krashos
I guess I'm still confused about the whole barony and duke thing. I get that they have no direct administrative power, but then what do the holdings represent, and where (and what then)are they?
I'm also curious what roles these holdings play besides having influence on the council and the Queen-Regent? I guess I just don't understand the point of them existing if they have no real power. Are the barons and dukes similar to the U.K.'s royalty,
who seem to be more celebrity than rulers?
I appreciate the incredible answer given. I really didn't expect it. Obviously what you've given me thus far is incredibly helpful, I just want a deeper understanding. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2013 : 07:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Here are the individuals who govern in the name of the Crown in Impiltur (c. 1370 DR):
Wow. That was a hugely awesome post. Thanks for sharing this information, George.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2013 : 01:57:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain
I guess I'm still confused about the whole barony and duke thing. I get that they have no direct administrative power, but then what do the holdings represent, and where (and what then)are they?
I'm also curious what roles these holdings play besides having influence on the council and the Queen-Regent? I guess I just don't understand the point of them existing if they have no real power. Are the barons and dukes similar to the U.K.'s royalty,
who seem to be more celebrity than rulers?
I appreciate the incredible answer given. I really didn't expect it. Obviously what you've given me thus far is incredibly helpful, I just want a deeper understanding.
The ducal and baronial holdings are simply the property and lands owned by the various noble families of the Realms. As with most things, the more land and property that you own, the more money you have. The more money you have, the greater your influence. The nobles of Impiltur have no power other than more ready access to the Queen-Regent and the Lords of Imphras II. They have a few perks as a result of their position in the social strata (they can have an armed retinue etc.) but wield no direct authority in the realm. They are just like real world nobility in that respect.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 05:25:11
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Let me begin by saying that I hope that you are well, George, and not overly busy. I’d like to take a moment to provide some information, as it will helps set up my question a bit.
“In the Year of the Deep Moon (1294 DR), the adventurer-prince Thaum plotted to advance his claim on Impiltur's crown. He secretly plotted to have King Lasilmbrar,
Queen Thelmara, and Crown Prince Imphras III assassinated. Although Prince Rilimbrar was also a target, he was the only one to escape his cousin's trap.
Rilimbrar's survival foiled Thaum's plot to place his father, Prince Kuskur, on the throne, but it did have the effect of elevating Rilinibrar to the title
of king and Kuskur to the title of crown prince (at least temporarily). As unaware of his son's involvement as everyone else was, Crown Prince Kuskur agreed
to return to Impiltur and serve as regent until Prince Rilimbrar came of age. Since Rilimbrar was likely to have sons of his own, there was little chance
that Thaum would ever inherit the crown.
With his father away and his doddering maternal grandfather on the throne of Telflamm, it was a simple matter for Prince Thaum to empty much of Telflamm's
treasury to hire an army of mercenaries. With his army and his only child, Imphras, in tow, Thaum sailed across the Easting Reach and sacked the city of
Sarshel with complete surprise. Thaum and his mercenaries then marched on the Tower of Filur and seized the throne of Impiltur. Regent Kuskur and King
Rilimbrar fled into hasty exile, but without access to Impiltur's treasury, they were unable to muster much of a fighting force to reclaim the throne.
Instead, Kuskur turned to Queen Ilione of Aglarond and requested her aid. Ilione sent her mysterious apprentice, known only as the Simbul, to dispatch
Thaum with magic, a mission she accomplished in short order.
With Thaum dead, his army of mercenaries melted away. Efforts by Thaum's son Imphras (later Imphras IV) to hold the throne himself came to naught, and King
Rilimbrar was restored to the throne in the Year of the Black Hound (1296 DR). Crown Prince Kuskur never returned to Impiltur, choosing instead to live
out his remaining few years in self-imposed exile in Velprintalar. His grandson Imphras was placed under house arrest in the royal tower at Filur, remaining
there even after he became Crown Prince Imphras IV.”
My question is it possible that Prince Kuskur remarried while in exile? My reason for asking, is that I’m setting up a 4e campaign involving several members with possible ties to thrown, and while I’ve a few ideas on possible lines of succession, you seem to be the best authority on the subject and thought I’d ask. I appreciate any info you can provide, respectfully, sightless.
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We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 17:36:41
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| There are quite a few missing names in the history section that you quoted. I just finished putting together a family tree of the Heltharn dynasty last night and have a few blank entries. Mostly daughters of "him" and "her". This is a very good question for posterity's sake. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2013 : 02:25:52
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I'm alway from home at the moment so don't have access to my notes. No Kuskur didn't remarry while in exile in Aglarond. He was very old and had no interest in fathering any further children that might bring yet more dishonour on him. Your reference to "thrown" appears to be a typo and should read Thaum. Thaum had a son - Imphras IV - and three confirmed bastards: a daughter fathered in Telflamm who was aged about eleven in 1294 DR and two sons born in 1295 and 1296 DR respectively in Impiltur. One of those boys, Harthaur, wasn't seen after the return of Rilimbrar and is thought to have been kept captive by one of a handful of noble families who were suspected of having a foot in both camps during the time of the Traitor Prince. The other, a strapping lad named Melegaun was taken by the mercenary "lord" Varandil to the lands of the Vast and the Moonsea and became a sellsword himself. He died in 1325 DR in a skirmish with the authorities of Melvaunt but is known to have fathered at least two children. They were low born and the Impilturian Crown has no knowledge of their or their offspring's whereabouts in the present day.
Hope this is helpful.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 25 Apr 2013 02:44:57 |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2013 : 04:22:16
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This is something I've been looking into for a bit of time, but I couldn't find a straight answer on the topic. I understand that typically with undead who return to animation after the base creature dies (e.g. wight, mohrg), memory is lost, and any memories remaining are very foggy and incomplete. This seems to be the general rule with these sorts of undead, but then you have liches and vampires who retain their memories.
So my question is, would the Death Knight Imphras II recall his imperial past, or would he basically just be an unholy, seasoned bastion of martial, confused fury, able to train troops but not really know why or how he came to his abilities?
Now that I'm thinking about it, how do you think the Lords of Imphras II would react to the knowledge of his continued existence? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2013 : 08:15:48
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For what it's worth, I've always considered Death Knights to be a rather special type of undead - each fairly unique in that their creation circumstances could and did vary significantly, thereby giving DMs wiggle room to do just about whatever they wanted with them.
In my Impiltur, the death knight Imbrar has only fleeting and vague recollections of his former self. His general disposition could best be described as melancholy - for it was dark despair and shame that drove his transformation (his last act as a living king was to flee the fight and leave his most trusted retainers and guards to fight on in a forlorn stand to buy him time to escape with devastating results) and he only ever regains some of his firebrand original personality when engaging in battle or planning for war.
Soneillon is careful to ensure that he does not dwell on his past life or gain an inkling as to what he was. She in fact has told him that he is a great king who was betrayed and had his throne usurped and that one day, he will lead forth armies to regain the kingdom that was taken away from him.
As to what the Lords of Imphras II would do if they obtained definitive proof that the "dread lord in the mountains" (as the death knight Imbrar is talked about in rumour and conjecture by the denizens of surrounding lands) was their lost king, they would likely consider it their holy obligation to end his undead torment and bring him the sweet release of real death. How they would in fact go about that however, is a much harder thing to work out.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2013 : 13:11:59
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That was precisely what I was looking for and more, in less than four hours I might add. I truly appreciate it, good sir.
I was toying with the idea of Death Knight Imbrar having the majority of his memories, but his exalted and august senses of right and wrong (as well as his overall intentions) have been perverted into the hatred of life that is present in so many undead.
I toyed with the ideas of him wanting to reclaim his throne, trying to exert his claims to it, and all the problems which would be born from those. I thought about perhaps having some of the Lords side with him, which could incite some nasty reactions, among which could be a civil war.
I'm not terribly crazy about those ideas per se, but I'm still toying with them. What do you think? Also, I always thought an evil deity or powerful demon had to basically endorse a "candidate" in order for a Death Knight to be created. If this is the case, who was the patron for Imbrar?
Thank you again for your input, George. It's amazing to have this level of support from a developer such as yourself. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 04:36:31
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Due to a few reasons that I don't need to go into, I thought it necessary in my Impiltur article to subtly infer that Soneillon had slowly, slowly come to exert influence among the power players of the Realms, including the Queen-Regent and some of the Lords. As such, it would be entirely reasonable to think that if Imbrar the death knight came back, and his true nature unrevealed, that more than a few individuals would rally to him as "rightful king" - this is especially so given the low profile of the current king Imbrar II.
You're free to make death knight Imbrar as aware or not aware of his identity as you like. Whatever best suits tre campaign you are trying to create.
As for Imbrar's patron, this was Soneillon but also indirectly Eltab. Those two have some linkages that haven't yet been fully revealed.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 04:57:16
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| George, am slowly working on a scroll that will include all your posts on Impiltur. It probably wont be finished until November, because there's a lot of stuff here you've contributed to on the subject, and I unfortunately have other ongoing projects. Just thought I'd let you know. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 08:26:03
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Your input is greatly appreciated and helpful, as always.
In Champions of Ruin, it is written: "to Soneillon's delight, the fallen king of Impiltur then arose as a death knight and servant to her will," which would lead me to believe that event was unintentional. Perhaps I don't know enough about death knights. That same portion of writing also says he's under her control however, so does this mean she provided whatever dark energies necessary (along with Eltab, as previously stated by you)? I suppose the specifics of his re-conception aren't super important for me right now, but it is still nice to have a more complete understanding.
What's this about a linkage which hasn't been fully revealed yet? I don't necessarily need to know, but is this something we'd find out in the future?
Anyways, thank you very much. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 11:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
George, am slowly working on a scroll that will include all your posts on Impiltur. It probably wont be finished until November, because there's a lot of stuff here you've contributed to on the subject, and I unfortunately have other ongoing projects. Just thought I'd let you know.
 I think Sage has been working on one for about 3 years now. We'll be playing 6E by the time we get to see it!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 11:37:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain
Your input is greatly appreciated and helpful, as always.
In Champions of Ruin, it is written: "to Soneillon's delight, the fallen king of Impiltur then arose as a death knight and servant to her will," which would lead me to believe that event was unintentional. Perhaps I don't know enough about death knights. That same portion of writing also says he's under her control however, so does this mean she provided whatever dark energies necessary (along with Eltab, as previously stated by you)? I suppose the specifics of his re-conception aren't super important for me right now, but it is still nice to have a more complete understanding.
What's this about a linkage which hasn't been fully revealed yet? I don't necessarily need to know, but is this something we'd find out in the future?
Anyways, thank you very much.
I always understood that with paladins, if they fell from grace at the moment of death then they could rise as death knights. This is likely how things panned out for Imbar.
The energy did indeed come from Soneillon, but also - through a dark ritual powered by a Narfelli artifact known as the talon of Gurlas in her keeping - through Eltab, her master. That linkage allows Soneillon to communicate with Eltab despite her inability to enter the lands of Impiltur proper and his inability to leave the confines of his demesne in the Citadel of Conjurers. She can also channel some of his demonic power through that artifact, using his powers at the cost of her own vitality (although she can sacrifice others instead to pay the cost of doing so - human sacrifices work fine but the unleashed powers cost a lot of human lives. The artifact in question is actually geared to sacrificing and using the demonic essence of lesser demons such as manes to power spell-like natural abilities such that the available uses of a particular power are not diminished for the bearer (i.e. an ability to use power word: stun 1/day could be used over and over again if you had sufficient sacrifices on hand and the space and time to utilise the talon).
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2013 : 15:00:39
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| No fair, now you gotta tell us who Gurlas was. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Questions for George Krashos
