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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Nov 2008 : 14:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I've got one more Freesailor question. In Pirates of the Fallen Stars, it's mentioned that membership is 'by invitation only'. Whose invitation would that be?
Can any Freesailor captain invite another to join, so long as the invitee holds a letter of marque and reprisal from Cormyr, Sembia or Impiltur? Must a certain minimum number of members vouch for him, besides the sponsoring captain? Must the nominal head of the order give his consent?
Invitation must be made by the brotherhood proper--which formally means by the Crown of Cormyr, but more practically means any of the three sponsoring governments. Freesailors cannot invite others into their ranks.
quote:
In the FRCS, page 145, it states that a pirate captain named Samagaer Silverblade commanded over a hundred ships in 1368 DR. It also states that this Silverblade is the same man as Miklos Selkirk.
Admittedly, his lieutinents now control only about a half of the ships he had before the Sahuagin War, but that's still a lot of ships for one man. Especially since there are other powerful leaders than him, such as Azla, Vurgrom the Mighty, Teldar and Xenz.
Certain charismatic and wealthy pirate captains can (and do) gather enormous numbers of ships to them at a given time. Keep in mind, though, that Selkirk was connected with the ruling regime in Sembia (thus fearing little from the Freesails). Even when such navies gather, they swiftly fall apart, as greed, pride, lack of ports and other disagreements weaken their alliances. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2008 : 14:22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Do you have a list of published (and hence NDA-exempt) such names? Because I suspect that they *all* have names, from what I've learned about this magnificent document from a variety of sources (mostly, indirectly, Google), but I know what my reasonable expectations are, and I try (really hard, as difficult as it is some times) to be reasonable. 
Unfortunately, I don't. It would require a massive amount of reverse-engineering from the Lineage, my notes, and every source available to determine which royal consorts were already known.
Volo's Guide to Cormyr, the Cormyr Saga novels (Cormyr: A Novel, Beyond the High Road, and Death of the Dragon), and the 1st Edition FRCS Boxed Set all provide some information on royal spouses, as does the Lost Treasures of Volo series of articles from Dragon Magazine (issues 278 to 281, if I'm remembering correctly).
quote:
quote:
Yes, Vaerom is the third son.
Thanks. And his sons and other descendants are NDA, I assume?
You betcha.
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Can anything be said about the Obarskyrs of Impiltur other than Vaerom and his line (i.e., the "rest of the family": cousins of Ondeth, Villiam and Andar)?
Not really, I'm afraid, beyond that the family name means 'Of the Blood of Obara.'
quote:
Edit: One more question that just occurred to me, and the answer is probably the usual three letters, but I'll try anyway: I just noticed (or, rather, was just struck by the significance) that Kasplara, Jasl, and Arathra succeeded to the throne in reverse order of birth.  I'm assuming that the "why" of that is firmly NDA'd, but can you say whether or not any of these three and Barander are siblings, and if so, are there one set of siblings or two? I'm not asking whose offspring they are; I know the answer to that one to be "NDA". (I am paying attention to the answers I don't get. )
During the Thronestrife, monarchs were not selected based on order of birth but on their 'suitability' for the Dragon Throne (who was selecting, and why, well... you know).
quote:
Sorry... I know I said "one more" but... we know from the GHotR that Thargreve "the Greater" slew Gorauna... can you tell us the year of that event, or is it also protected by NDA? I suspect it happened around the time Barander abdicated, in fact just before; given what we know about Barander, he was only king by Gorauna's machinations, and didn't really want the throne, so when Thargreve killed his scheming grandmother (Barander's great-aunt), Barander was only too happy to surrender the crown. Or at least that's how I see it. If you can confirm this, great; if you can't comment, I understand; and if I'm altogether on the wrong track and you can tell me so, even better.
Can't answer this one in any way at all. Sorry. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 18:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Unfortunately, I don't. It would require a massive amount of reverse-engineering from the Lineage, my notes, and every source available to determine which royal consorts were already known.
Volo's Guide to Cormyr, the Cormyr Saga novels (Cormyr: A Novel, Beyond the High Road, and Death of the Dragon), and the 1st Edition FRCS Boxed Set all provide some information on royal spouses, as does the Lost Treasures of Volo series of articles from Dragon Magazine (issues 278 to 281, if I'm remembering correctly).
I understand the reverse engineering issues... maybe we can use that as justification for making the entire document public?  
I have the lineage fragment from the OGB (my hard copy is on a bookshelf a couple of hundred miles away right now; it makes me sad), and I have read the Cormyr Saga; it may be time for a re-read. Hopefully my brother-in-law upstairs has the relevant Dragon issues; mine are on another bookshelf in the same remote location as my OGB.
[Edit: I found issues 279 to 281; not bad, but 278 is one of only two issues prior to 300 that he's missing. Grrr!] 
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
And his sons and other descendants are NDA, I assume?
You betcha.
No surprise there... I just hope these Cormyte NDAs come full circle within my lifetime. (Rumor has it that Ed is trying to get some of the older "vaporware" NDA's vacated; can you confirm or deny these rumors?)
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Not really, I'm afraid, beyond that the family name means 'Of the Blood of Obara.'
Okay... is that silence due to NDA, a simple lack of developed lore, or both? I suspect door #1 or door #3... if lack of lore is a factor, I'm more than happy to contribute; I have ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
During the Thronestrife, monarchs were not selected based on order of birth but on their 'suitability' for the Dragon Throne (who was selecting, and why, well... you know).
Yes, true enough... although the 'why' is still somewhat mysterious... but until we have a novel or other lore detailing the Thronestrife, I suspect it won't do us any good to ask about it, will it?
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Can't answer this one in any way at all. Sorry.
I suspected as much... given that the event is mentioned in passing in the Cormyr succession in the GHotR and not specifically referred to or dated.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 12 Nov 2008 18:50:21 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 18:45:56
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| Anything that would, should or could appear in the Lineage is NDA right now, I'm afraid. That includes the details of Thargreve and Gorauna, the goings-on of the Thronestrife, spousal names and lifespans, and anything else you might consider appropriate extensions of that lore. I have no knowledge of any discussions Ed's having with WotC, so I can't comment (and probably would just ignore the question if I did know). |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 18:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[Edit: I found issues 279 to 281; not bad, but 278 is one of only two issues prior to 300 that he's missing. Grrr!]
The only place I know of to get hold of Dragon #278 at this point is as a PDF purchase from Paizo's web store. For hard copies, your best bet is to cross fingers and check ebay. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 22:47:56
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Re: Thronestrife: That's more or less exactly what I suspected, so thank you at least for confirming said suspicions. Anything I've heard regarding the release of the Lineage is more or less third-hand, apart from a brief and vague but tantalizing second-hand comment courtesy of THO (which may or may not have come from Ed initially) in Ed's scroll.
As far as the missing Dragon issue is concerned, I'll do without until I can get my stuff moved; I have an extensive hardcopy collection, sitting on shelves out of town, complete from #52 to #359 (and final); I've been half-heartedly trying to locate #51 just to complete my collection from Volume VI, Number 1 up. Until then, I'm just trying to locate the Infernal Coagulation Machine so I can accelerate lore accessibility.
Edit: Another question occurred to me in the wee hours of this Pacific evening... how much lineage information exists for the Bleth and Cormaeril houses, and is it all still NDA with both houses being exiled? Thanks for whatever you can tell me, even if it is just three letters.
Second edit: I was poking around online this morning, and I found a second set of dates for King Rhiiman of Cormyr:
106 Year of the Adamantine Spiral
Rhiiman "The Glorious" (? to 131), King of Cormyr.
The dates in the GHotR are significantly earlier than this; born 35, reigned 66 to 79. Are the first set of dates from any source you are familiar with? I've found it in a couple of different online sources, but I can't check my 1E/2E sources to locate the original reference. Thanks! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 13 Nov 2008 17:46:46 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 18:06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Another question occurred to me in the wee hours of this Pacific evening... how much lineage information exists for the Bleth and Cormaeril houses, and is it all still NDA with both houses being exiled? Thanks for whatever you can tell me, even if it is just three letters.
There is significantly less information codified in a "here, make this public" format. The Bleth and Cormaeril houses are, of course, touched on in the Lineage, but nothing even approaching that sort of coverage exists for either family.
Ed, of course, has notes and thoughts and scraps of paper on the matter, but nothing that's been gathered together, torn apart for inconsistency, and forged into something good and whole.
quote:
I was poking around online this morning, and I found a second set of dates for King Rhiiman of Cormyr:
106 Year of the Adamantine Spiral
Rhiiman "The Glorious" (? to 131), King of Cormyr.
The dates in the GHotR are significantly earlier than this; born 35, reigned 66 to 79. Are the first set of dates from any source you are familiar with? I've found it in a couple of different online sources, but I can't check my 1E/2E sources to locate the original reference.
I couldn't really say where that date came from, but it's most likely fan conjecture based on what meager information was then available, including the listing of monarchs at Realmspeak and a few tossed away comments. I don't really know of anywhere that that date was actually established in official lore. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 19:01:16
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Thanks Garen! That's more or less what I suspected regarding the alternate dates for Rhiiman. I have compiled the parts of the Lineage that are public knowledge into a genealogy document which is about to be converted to PDF in its current state (as incomplete as it is) pending one or two little bits that you may or may not be able to assist with.
Duke Bhereu married Maethe Blacksilver, and according to the snippet in the OGB, there were no offspring. Can you confirm that much? Also, his brother Thomdor apparently never married. I'm suspecting that you can't say anything different there, but both brothers have been dead longer than Azoun IV so I thought I'd ask anyway.
Last question: Is the identity of Amble's father, the elder brother of Palaghard I, revealed anywhere outside of NDA territory? Given that we know the story of Amble and the Crystal Grot, and the Cormyr succession clearly indicates Palaghard as the second son, I'm hoping that this bit of information is something that can be revealed. If not, I understand; it's my patience that needs work as much as these assorted projects of varying degrees of reality and completion.
Thanks again! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 13 Nov 2008 19:05:06 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 19:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Duke Bhereu married Maethe Blacksilver, and according to the snippet in the OGB, there were no offspring. Can you confirm that much? Also, his brother Thomdor apparently never married. I'm suspecting that you can't say anything different there, but both brothers have been dead longer than Azoun IV so I thought I'd ask anyway.
Correct. No legitimate offspring from either Thomdor or Bhereu.
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Is the identity of Amble's father, the elder brother of Palaghard I, revealed anywhere outside of NDA territory?
Nope.
quote:
Given that we know the story of Amble and the Crystal Grot, and the Cormyr succession clearly indicates Palaghard as the second son, I'm hoping that this bit of information is something that can be revealed. If not, I understand; it's my patience that needs work as much as these assorted projects of varying degrees of reality and completion.
Afraid it's one of those "covered in the Lineage" things. That's a tale specifically crafted for revelation within the context of the entire royal dynasty, and one I'd love to share (since I wrote it), but it'll have to wait. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 01:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Is the identity of Amble's father, the elder brother of Palaghard I, revealed anywhere outside of NDA territory?
Nope.
quote:
Given that we know the story of Amble and the Crystal Grot, and the Cormyr succession clearly indicates Palaghard as the second son, I'm hoping that this bit of information is something that can be revealed. If not, I understand; it's my patience that needs work as much as these assorted projects of varying degrees of reality and completion.
Afraid it's one of those "covered in the Lineage" things. That's a tale specifically crafted for revelation within the context of the entire royal dynasty, and one I'd love to share (since I wrote it), but it'll have to wait.
Hopefully it won't have to wait for too much longer... but I guess you couldn't tell me either way, so I won't even ask.
Edit: See? I'm learning! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 14 Nov 2008 01:26:35 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:09:52
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Another lineage question... this one about the Wyvernspurs. I have a JPEG (whose origin was a link from this site, which I now cannot locate) of the complete (up to Dimswart's granddaughter) Wyvernspur lineage, which I have integrated into my mapping of the royal lineage through the marriage of Azoun II and Linnese, daughter of Lord Gerrin Wyvernspur.
My questions to you are threefold:
First, are the various Winters in the lineage (Amalee, Shara, Lamala) related to Lord Tessaril Winter of Eveningstar?
Second, if so, how does Tessaril fit in? Is she Lamala's niece, or a more distant relation?
Third, should I be asking Kate Novak and/or Jeff Grubb these questions, or are they covered by NDA altogether? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 14 Nov 2008 19:11:32 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:37:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Another lineage question... this one about the Wyvernspurs. I have a JPEG (whose origin was a link from this site, which I now cannot locate) of the complete (up to Dimswart's granddaughter) Wyvernspur lineage, which I have integrated into my mapping of the royal lineage through the marriage of Azoun II and Linnese, daughter of Lord Gerrin Wyvernspur.
My questions to you are threefold:
First, are the various Winters in the lineage (Amalee, Shara, Lamala) related to Lord Tessaril Winter of Eveningstar?
Second, if so, how does Tessaril fit in? Is she Lamala's niece, or a more distant relation?
Third, should I be asking Kate Novak and/or Jeff Grubb these questions, or are they covered by NDA altogether?
The JPEG in question (available hereis something I concocted, updated from the one in The Wyvern's Spur to account for a dating error and to add some information.
As for your questions I believe I addressed them over on the first page of the thread: they Wyvernspurs are entirely the Grubb-Novaks' to deal with. |
Edited by - Garen Thal on 14 Nov 2008 19:58:19 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 23:25:00
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 Thanks Garen. I'm trying to find projects that don't inspire so many NDA-prone questions; it's healthier for me that way. I'd rather not blow a gasket before the Cormyr lineage actually does see the light of day, whenever that may be.
Edit: Of course, in my search for questions you are allowed to answer, I seem to be prone to repeating myself, now that I've reread the first page... my apologies. Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Later Edit: Changed wording of first edit. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Nov 2008 07:40:34 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2008 : 04:50:18
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| Wow... I disappear for two weeks and this scroll goes dead. Maybe I've asked all the questions about Cormyr that Candlekeep wants answers to, which means we need to wait for some NDAs to be fulfilled or expire. I'm suspecting that this is NDA territory too, but... what can you tell me about Vangerdahast and Jorunhast post-Spellplague? Last I heard, both were still around... and if this is NDA'd for the benefit of novel writers, that's good. If the novel(s) has (have) already been written and published, that's even better. I'm still getting around to catching up on my pre-Spellplague novels. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 27 Nov 2008 04:51:20 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2008 : 04:54:13
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Yes, it appears that people only want to ask Brian about things "Cormyr" and myself about things "Impiltur". I'm pretty sure both of us could field questions on a range of topics ... why not test our expertise?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2008 : 05:52:39
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| What's the extent of the Lliiran faith in Cormyr? Any large and notable temples/priests/famous Lliiran bards? |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 06:21:43
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I've found a non-Cormyr question for you, Brian; following George's suggestion, I thought I'd ask you and give Ed one less question to deal with... yeah, I know it's a drop in the bucket... anyway:
132 (The Year of Thirteen Prides Lost)
(It seemed appropriate to place the following event in this year, and it fits with the timeline we have for Azuth's ascension) The following is a paraphrase of the published description of the event from Faiths and Pantheons:
quote:
The Shadevari return to Toril (or perhaps never left) in search of a recently-spawned realm of Shadows. As the Shadevari enter this mysterious realm, located in an unknown part of Toril, they are imprisoned within it by the new wizard-deity Azuth, who encases the realm in the Key of Shadows (created by Gond) and hurls the Key of Shadows into the cosmos.
Speculation, by myself and others, is that the Key of Shadows becomes the Plane of Shadow... but if this were the case, then the Plane of Shadow would not have existed for the Netherese city of Thultanthar to flee to during the Fall of Netheril in the Year of Sundered Webs (-339 DR). My guess would be that the Key of Shadows was drawn into the Plane of Shadows by the mutually-attractive nature of shadowstuff. Still, it would be nice as an origin story, but it would require Azuth to have been a god at least 500 years before canon lore says he ascended.
Can you tell us anything more about the Key of Shadows and the Shadevari, or would doing so eNDAnger you and those to whom you speak? (Not that I'm saying that WotC is anything like a Ministry of Truth... I now understand the role of NDAs in enabling the designers... but that doesn't mean I'm happy about them.
Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these shadowy issues. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Dec 2008 06:22:29 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 21:44:56
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Brian,
I posted these questions to Ed before I realized that as the resident "Sage on all Matters Cormyrean" you might know the answers or offer some advice on some (if not all) of them.
So here it is, re-posted:
I have been running a Pathfinder Beta playtest campaign, which is set in Thunderstone, in Cormyr. I have written a lot of material for it, but since a lot of the events in the campaign have taken place outside the town, the players have not interacted a lot with NPCs outside their "inner" circle (i.e. families and shopkeepers and prominent allies, such as tutors). I'm still fleshing out details, and filling in stuff as the campaign progresses and the PCs are drawn deeper into local intrigue, and here are some questions for you:
1) Which noble families have holdings in or around Thunderstone?
2) Are there any "extinct" local noble families, who might have dabbled into necromancy and/or demon worship, and were either exiled or executed or imprisoned?
3) Which sort of presence do the Heralds and Harper and Zhentarim agents have in Thunderstone -- i.e. do stay just "stay put" and observe, or have an active presence in the area?
4) Are there any notable castles or keeps in or near Thunderstone?
5) Which religions have shrines (or even temples) in or around Thunderstone? I've already included shrines to Tymora, Tempus, Chauntea, Silvanus (outside the town) and Torm -- some of these due to PC backgrounds -- but I'd like to hear from you if I have forgotten an "obvious" deity from that list.
6) Which demihuman races have any "presence" in Thunderstone? Is it alright to assume that whole families of gnomes, halflings and dwarves live and work there? Any lost (i.e. forgotten) dwarven or gnome clan holds/strongholds nearby?
7) Can you give any details about the Realm of Wailing Fog?
8) Does Stag's Skull Bridge have any sort of barracks/buildings for the Dragons stationed there, or do they just march to guard the bridge in shifts? Does it have any other buildings, or perhaps even fortifications (such as a barbican)? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2008 : 14:25:10
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Sorry for the very long wait for my replies, but the holidays are a busy time around here. Living in New York, any time between Thanksgiving and New Years is eaten up between working, writing, and commuting to and from work (which takes twice as long).
Getting back to work now. Once these projects are out the door (Jan 15 or so), expect a more regular response time. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2008 : 14:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Wow... I disappear for two weeks and this scroll goes dead. Maybe I've asked all the questions about Cormyr that Candlekeep wants answers to, which means we need to wait for some NDAs to be fulfilled or expire. I'm suspecting that this is NDA territory too, but... what can you tell me about Vangerdahast and Jorunhast post-Spellplague? Last I heard, both were still around... and if this is NDA'd for the benefit of novel writers, that's good. If the novel(s) has (have) already been written and published, that's even better. I'm still getting around to catching up on my pre-Spellplague novels.
Vangerdahast and Jorunhast are Royal Magicians, and are thus covered by my generic "Sorry, going to have to wait for the Lineage" response.
So, Sorry... &c |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2008 : 14:29:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
What's the extent of the Lliiran faith in Cormyr? Any large and notable temples/priests/famous Lliiran bards?
Lliirans are a traveling lot within Cormyr, and show up at all manner of happy occasions. They are well-received by Cormyreans, and can often be seen traveling in Triplets (one of Lliira, one of Sharess, one of Sune) in Suzail trying to cheer folks up. Such Triplets are often all beautiful women of different looks (and, sometimes, species), akin to flower children or other wandering folk.
I'll try and have some temples and priests for you after the New Year, and will leave myself a note so I don't forget. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2008 : 14:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I've found a non-Cormyr question for you, Brian; following George's suggestion, I thought I'd ask you and give Ed one less question to deal with... yeah, I know it's a drop in the bucket... anyway:
132 (The Year of Thirteen Prides Lost)
(It seemed appropriate to place the following event in this year, and it fits with the timeline we have for Azuth's ascension) The following is a paraphrase of the published description of the event from Faiths and Pantheons:
quote:
The Shadevari return to Toril (or perhaps never left) in search of a recently-spawned realm of Shadows. As the Shadevari enter this mysterious realm, located in an unknown part of Toril, they are imprisoned within it by the new wizard-deity Azuth, who encases the realm in the Key of Shadows (created by Gond) and hurls the Key of Shadows into the cosmos.
Speculation, by myself and others, is that the Key of Shadows becomes the Plane of Shadow... but if this were the case, then the Plane of Shadow would not have existed for the Netherese city of Thultanthar to flee to during the Fall of Netheril in the Year of Sundered Webs (-339 DR). My guess would be that the Key of Shadows was drawn into the Plane of Shadows by the mutually-attractive nature of shadowstuff. Still, it would be nice as an origin story, but it would require Azuth to have been a god at least 500 years before canon lore says he ascended.
Can you tell us anything more about the Key of Shadows and the Shadevari, or would doing so eNDAnger you and those to whom you speak? (Not that I'm saying that WotC is anything like a Ministry of Truth... I now understand the role of NDAs in enabling the designers... but that doesn't mean I'm happy about them.
Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these shadowy issues.
I'm going to answer this one a little more generally than you'll probably like, Jakk, but that's for necessity's sake.
Issues regarding Shadow (and the Demiplane of Shadow, Plane of Shadow, Shadowfell, and so forth) should be seen as more nebulous than you're approaching the issue. Shadow is the wispy, ephemeral not-stuff of the cosmos, moldable and shapable and, at its essence, capable of redefinition.
As I see things, the Key of Shadows that Gond forges is not the (Demi)Plane of Shadows. As the nature of that plane is ever-changing, it is not inconceivable that the key was drawn there, added to the plane and altered it somewhat, but they did not begin as one in the same. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 19:15:13
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| I like that triplet concept, it's cute. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 21:21:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I like that triplet concept, it's cute.
Oh, they're positively adorable, even if the Lliiran of the three is often caught trying to temper (read: censor) the efforts of her "sisters."
Now, when Triplets of Shar, Loviatar and Beshaba go walking, it's a far less amusing sight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 02:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I like that triplet concept, it's cute.
Oh, they're positively adorable, even if the Lliiran of the three is often caught trying to temper (read: censor) the efforts of her "sisters."
Now, when Triplets of Shar, Loviatar and Beshaba go walking, it's a far less amusing sight.
In fact, it's probably downright scary! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 14:14:56
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| Happy New Year, Brian! And let me tell you that I'm eagerly waiting for your module, 'Descent Into Midnight' -- I hope you'll get to write more for Paizo in the future! |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 16:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I like that triplet concept, it's cute.
Oh, they're positively adorable, even if the Lliiran of the three is often caught trying to temper (read: censor) the efforts of her "sisters."
Now, when Triplets of Shar, Loviatar and Beshaba go walking, it's a far less amusing sight.
In fact, it's probably downright scary!
Scary, alluring, or downright intoxicating. All depends on your pain tolerance, I suppose... |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 16:21:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Happy New Year, Brian! And let me tell you that I'm eagerly waiting for your module, 'Descent Into Midnight' -- I hope you'll get to write more for Paizo in the future!
Thank you, Asgetrion, and a happy New Year to you (and all denizens of the 'Keep) as well.
While the Realms are and always will be my first love, and I would gladly move all Seven Heavens and the Elemental Plane of Earth to write in FR for the rest of my days, Golarion is a deep, compelling world that I'm enjoying the chance to explore, and the folks at Paizo are a great group to work with.
So, expect me to write more of something in the future. For which company, well, that's up to them, isn't it? ;) |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2009 : 05:16:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
I'm going to answer this one a little more generally than you'll probably like, Jakk, but that's for necessity's sake.
Issues regarding Shadow (and the Demiplane of Shadow, Plane of Shadow, Shadowfell, and so forth) should be seen as more nebulous than you're approaching the issue. Shadow is the wispy, ephemeral not-stuff of the cosmos, moldable and shapable and, at its essence, capable of redefinition.
As I see things, the Key of Shadows that Gond forges is not the (Demi)Plane of Shadows. As the nature of that plane is ever-changing, it is not inconceivable that the key was drawn there, added to the plane and altered it somewhat, but they did not begin as one in the same.
Thanks for that clarification, Garen... that actually makes more sense, seeing as we have that timeline snafu otherwise (Thultanthar retreating into the Plane of Shadows before the Year of Sundered Webs, and Azuth ascending to divinity approximately five centuries later, by my calculations, and imprisoning the Shadevari after that). I'd love to know more about the Shadevari, and those suspiciously-similar-in-number pyramids under Ascore, but I know the latter are firmly entrenched in NDA-land (as I heard from Ed quite recently, anyway, right where they've been for 20 years since the original Savage Frontier supplement was published) and I suspect the same about the former.  I'd think that a 20-year automatic expiry on all NDA's isn't too much to ask for... heck, even ten years seems more than reasonable to me... but methinks I doth protest too much again...
A belated Happy New Year to you and other contributors to your scroll! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 09:11:44
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Brian: good job on the last instalment of Second Darkness!!! the comments about it look fantastic. It appears that you flew into Paizo and literally saved the day!!! 
It annoys me to no end that I cannot read it: I bought it, of course, with my ongoing subscription to Pathfinder Adventure Paths, but I just turned over future DMing duties to one of my players, and loaned him all SD instalments (I had been trying to DM my group through Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave, but the weekly exercise became so tedious that I was, over time, hit with a bad case of DM burnout... and have therefore declared that this Realms campaign was at an end; any takers for my now useless Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroc hardcovers? actually, any takers for most of my 3.0/3.5 Realms stuff? any offer will be entertained, and I own most books...)
Sorry Brian... |
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Questions for Brian Cortijo
