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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 04:17:20
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I would like a review of the differences between the previously free DDI material and the new pay material.
I would also like a review of the tools and to know whether they are worth the subscription.
I wish WoTC had offered a free trial of the tools, I don't know what the value of their free preview period was without the tools.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 13:20:34
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I signed up, but there doesn't seem to be any new tools up today that weren't up before. All the tools are labeled "Coming Soon".
They may still give people a free preview of the tools as they come on line, not sure. I kind of expected the floodgates of beautiful lore and tools to open once I went inside the DDI, but so far there is not much new yet. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 13:37:17
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| I think they should have waited to get the tools up and running before charging a dime. They've been under production for quite some time now. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 13:51:39
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| The current subscription package isn't for the tools; it's for the online publication content (Dragon, Dungeon, etc.) only. The tools will have a separate fee associated, and people will have the option of choosing just the material (at the current rates, I guess), just the tools (once enough of them are rolled out to justify charging for them), or both for subscription. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 14:27:09
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I'm hoping the DDi thing is what ends up tanking $e.
That could be my Christmas and birthday presents! |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 15:19:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The current subscription package isn't for the tools; it's for the online publication content (Dragon, Dungeon, etc.) only. The tools will have a separate fee associated, and people will have the option of choosing just the material (at the current rates, I guess), just the tools (once enough of them are rolled out to justify charging for them), or both for subscription.
I'm now wondering what the cost will be then. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 15:24:00
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So the $7.95 a month is for a two-magazine subscription and 3 tools that you can re-create in Excel?
Heck, Playboy's only $15.96 for the year.
Edit: Of course, if you want to pay for an entire year, it will only cost $59.40 ($4.95 a month) for the year. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 16 Oct 2008 15:31:55 |
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malchor7
Seeker
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 16:11:07
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It seems to me that if you bought it month-to-month for $7.95 each month, that would be $95.40, meaning you're paying for about the equivalent of three sourcebooks (~$30 each) a year.
If you buy a full year subscription all at once for $60, it's two sourcebooks a year.
I don't know about you, but I spent way more than that on sourcebooks back in the day.
I wonder if WotC would consider releasing their core rulebooks (4e PHB, DMG) online too? Perhaps to people who pay for the additional tools? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 17:00:44
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| I'm considering buying a subscription, but I haven't done so yet. Note that one reason I'm considering a purchase is because I like the core 4E material (and btw, all the articles in general have mostly been good). It is rather disheartening, though, that DDI is still on the incomplete side. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 17:19:15
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| BTW, you can still download the free issues for free HERE. I do not know if this is intention or oversight. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 17:46:13
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
BTW, you can still download the free issues for free HERE. I do not know if this is intention or oversight.
It's intentional. Anything from the free period (before October) is still free, as is the barbarian preview. Going forward, everything else will be viewable only if you a) have an active subscription and b) were subscribed at the time of its release. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 18:13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
BTW, you can still download the free issues for free HERE. I do not know if this is intention or oversight.
It's intentional. Anything from the free period (before October) is still free, as is the barbarian preview. Going forward, everything else will be viewable only if you a) have an active subscription and b) were subscribed at the time of its release.
Ack...so that means you can't decide to subscribe later and get access to stuff you missed  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 18:32:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
BTW, you can still download the free issues for free HERE. I do not know if this is intention or oversight.
It's intentional. Anything from the free period (before October) is still free, as is the barbarian preview. Going forward, everything else will be viewable only if you a) have an active subscription and b) were subscribed at the time of its release.
Ack...so that means you can't decide to subscribe later and get access to stuff you missed
As far as I understand things, no. The rationale (I guess) is that someone subscribing in, say, January, gets all the October, November and December stuff essentially for free, which both cheats early subscribers and takes cash out of WotC's pocket. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 19:32:53
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quote:
Originally posted by malchor7
I wonder if WotC would consider releasing their core rulebooks (4e PHB, DMG) online too? Perhaps to people who pay for the additional tools?
They have been selling the PDF versions through places such as DriveThru RPG.
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
As far as I understand things, no. The rationale (I guess) is that someone subscribing in, say, January, gets all the October, November and December stuff essentially for free, which both cheats early subscribers and takes cash out of WotC's pocket.
Being a web developer and a web purchaser, I'd just like to point out how silly that is. So, if someone is introduced to the game next year and really loves it and subscribes to DDI, they won't be able to see the older stuff they've missed?
I realize that magazines work that way, but that's because they are printed media and there is no logistic behind sending a new subscriber all the issues they've missed. Electronic downloads are very different since there is no logistic involved besides 'flipping a switch'. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 19:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
As far as I understand things, no. The rationale (I guess) is that someone subscribing in, say, January, gets all the October, November and December stuff essentially for free, which both cheats early subscribers and takes cash out of WotC's pocket.
Being a web developer and a web purchaser, I'd just like to point out how silly that is. So, if someone is introduced to the game next year and really loves it and subscribes to DDI, they won't be able to see the older stuff they've missed?
I realize that magazines work that way, but that's because they are printed media and there is no logistic behind sending a new subscriber all the issues they've missed. Electronic downloads are very different since there is no logistic involved besides 'flipping a switch'.
I didn't offer any opinion on the matter; it's just how I've understood WotC's comments on their boards, the site, and at GenCon. They said (again, at GenCon) that they'll probably offer pay-per-download sort of program for the digital Dragon and Dungeon back issues for new subscribers, but haven't worked out the pricing just yet.
What they don't want people getting for free in one shot what they're trying to get them to pay for all along. If, for example, I decide I'm going to "hold out" for a year, I could conceivably wait until next October, pay $7.95, and download every available item before the month is out. Compare that to the $59.40 they're hoping to get, and they're out $51.45. It gets worse the farther down the road it goes, and WotC has too much invested (in terms of money, manpower, and Hasbro expectations) for DDI to have those kinds of dreadful margins of error. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 20:06:13
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Oh, I understand their reasoning behind it. It's the fact that most internet-savvy people won't buy into it, IMHO.
In regards to the pay-per-download, they'll also have to be able to give people free access for a certain amount of time (like Battlecorps.com) or given them a set number of downloads (like DriveThruRPG.com). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 21:51:21
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Since I'm playing in one of my friend's 4E campaign now, I actually am pretty interested in keeping access to the Compendium, so I signed up, since you can actually view the latest material in the compendium once they get it updated. Essentially you can preview a lot of the new material (non fluff) in that manner, much like you could with the SRD of old, except that its an ongoing thing.
Of course, I have to admit that the Candlekeep-scribe penned FR articles have me curious as well, so that another reason to check it out.
On the other hand, I did still only sign up for the month to month. If I stay with it for the long run, it may be more expensive, but if I'm severely disappointed in the short term, I'm out a lot less.
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 22:41:28
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Well thanks everyone, I had no idea DDI was such a paper thin product.
I can't believe they are charging without including working tools.
I definitely will not subscribe until I get a better sense of what the value will be.
If more than two sourcebooks of quality realms material ends up coming out of it, maybe I will give it a second look sometime in the future.
Though if rumors are true that you had to be subscribed at the time of release to view them... I just don't know. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 00:42:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
BTW, you can still download the free issues for free HERE. I do not know if this is intention or oversight.
It's intentional. Anything from the free period (before October) is still free, as is the barbarian preview. Going forward, everything else will be viewable only if you a) have an active subscription and b) were subscribed at the time of its release.
Thanks to both of you for the information--I was wondering about that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 02:14:34
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| not yet, but I will be signing up. I am only really interested in the 2 magazines though. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 07:27:54
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Since I stopped reading the articles a few months back when they were free, I really doubt I'm going to bother with this.
I like to hold things in my hand (NO wisecracks!), and the whole 'digital RPG experience' just doesn't grab me.
I do most of my reading in the toilet, and unles I get a laptop, the DDi isn't viable to me.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Oct 2008 05:51:58 |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 07:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Since I stopped reading the articles a few months back when they were free, I realy doubt I'm going to bother with this.
^this.
I really haven't seen enough articles of interest so far that would justify me having paid for it. What I'm really waiting for is a timeline of the intervening years between 3E and 4E. THAT I might pay for. |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 17:48:02
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Î didn't subscribe either and probably will not. Even though i've been a subscriber to dungeon since issue 8 and dragon since issue 47.
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2008 : 05:58:41
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Me too - except for a couple of times when I went 'off the D&D wagon' for a year or so, I have 'em all.
Something about that 'new book' smell that just doesn't translate well on a screen...
However, if I had seen some stuff that I was interested in in the DDi, I would have changed my mind. Now, if they come out with the kind of content I am looking for, I won't even know it. With a mag, I can pick it up in the store and page through it, and see if it will be of interest to me to buy it. I can't do that with this new system, so even if they come out with my 'dream article' (whatever that might be), I won't be given the chance to sample and buy it.
I don't like to pay for things 'blind', and I really haven't seen anything worth paying for as of yet.
This is a HUGE problem as I see it - they haven't really impressed us, and now they want our money so they can start producing better stuff? Add to that that they are only now asking us what we'd like to see, and all I have to say is "Too little, too late".
It doesn't matter how great it eventually becomes - you only get one chance to mak a first impression. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Oct 2008 06:00:13 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 01:36:08
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| I just noticed, while peering through the Compendium, while the latest issue of Dragon has content in it, I can't find any references to the Epic Destinies from Epic Faerun from last month's online Dragon. I was scanning through them because Epic Destinies seem to be kind of a sparse area in 4E right now. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6653 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 10:52:01
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I thought I would subscribe to 'give it a go' but haven't. This likely means that I won't in the short term. If I hear on the internet about all the great FR content I'm missing out on, I might change my mind. But I guess I'll have to wait for that great FR content. I did with Dragon magazine when Paizo steered the ship.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 19:40:41
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Ahem.
Thats a paper mag, and this thread is about a digital one. WotC has already informed us that "paper BAD, Computer GOOD", so now that they have told us what we should like, we should conform to their 'suggestions'.
In fact, I agree with them 100% - "Computer am GOOD", hence my re-starting my WoW account.
After all, why bother to do anything half-way?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Oct 2008 19:41:20 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 22:11:36
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Bullocks!
Elaine is going to write in the Journal section of each Adventure Path starting in February, so subscribe I say, subscribe!!!
(and if you don't want to, well, you can buy these as PDFs too... so there, you got your digital fix right there Markustay!  ) |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 06:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Ahem.
Thats a paper mag, and this thread is about a digital one. WotC has already informed us that "paper BAD, Computer GOOD", so now that they have told us what we should like, we should conform to their 'suggestions'.
In fact, I agree with them 100% - "Computer am GOOD", hence my re-starting my WoW account.
After all, why bother to do anything half-way?
I agree entirely... so I hope your revived interest in WoW isn't going to take too much time away from your mapping.  In fact, it's because of my agreement with that tried and true saying that I have never bothered with any MMORPG, and why, if I can't find a buyer for my 4e core books, I will be donating them to my niece's preschool; the level of the writing is age-appropriate, even if nothing else about them is. J/k. The books I'll be selling or giving away (if necessary) to someone interested (if possible).
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Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 07:12:03 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 08:15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
I'm hoping the DDi thing is what ends up tanking $e.
That could be my Christmas and birthday presents!
Mine too... and it's sad that I feel that way, but it's the truth. 
I don't really have anything else to add to that. The Realms need to be reset to 1372 or 1373 DR, if not earlier, and Wizbro need to put a cork in their Awesome Realms Shattering Events, because we expect something cataclysmic on a more or less annual (Dalereckoning, not RT) basis now. I'm not blaming anybody for that; it's just that big events sell novels, as has been pointed out elsewhere. If saving the Realms as a gaming setting means a complete causal segregation of the fiction from the gaming products, I'm okay with that. The fiction should not drive the timeline of the gaming products anyway.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 20 Oct 2008 08:19:23 |
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Topic |
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Who got a DDI subscrription?
