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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:22:20
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Or any others, really (sorry if this thread is a bad fit, but I relaly don't know who else to ask right now):
If I get a PDF from an online source, and take it to a print shop like Staples to have it printed out (I prefer a 'real' copy to hold in my hands), do I need permission from the copyright holder?
I thought that permission to run off a copy for your own use went along with the purchase itself.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:27:47
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I *believe* that you cannot print the digital version, even from a legitimately purchased one.
I'm very rusty on my digital law, however. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I *believe* that you cannot print the digital version, even from a legitimately purchased one.
I'm very rusty on my digital law, however.
Okay, but I could swear I've heard people here on the site saying they'd done just that, and apparently without any problem.
Then again, maybe it was just the Staples I went to. When I asked if you could print a PDF there, I was asked, "What's a PDF?" |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:38:14
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| To play it safe, least around here, because I've tried that at Stables and Office Max, you should contact the PDF copy writer and ask them. Most would usually give permission but better to cover your.... especially since Bush, today, signed the new copy right law. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 22:03:09
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| Personal use only, and I'd say no more than one copy at a time. Running off a couple extra copies for your own personal use by handing them out to players at game-time (even if collected again when the game is over) is likely stretching the personal use only stipulation. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 23:29:05
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Staples won't do it, as it is illegal, or at least opens them up to liability in a copyright violation lawsuit. Just telling them that you're using it for personal use will not help. Virtually all copy companies have a policy that if it's got the little '©' on it, they won't copy it. They have to be careful, because the publishing industry watches them like hawks.
Of course, some Staples employees are very bottom of the barrel, so your mileage may vary. If they're not familiar with their own policies, you can get away with whatever you like. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 23:32:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
To play it safe, least around here, because I've tried that at Stables and Office Max, you should contact the PDF copy writer and ask them. Most would usually give permission but better to cover your.... especially since Bush, today, signed the new copy right law.
Doesn't that law make photocopiers illegal in their entirety?  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 00:05:42
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That's kind of funny since I've had all of my PDFs of Pathfinder Society Adventures run off at Staples 
I've been told that as long as the PDF has a watermark indicating the person having it printed out as the owner, its fine with them to print it out, but I've also heard a few people have their PDFs turned away because the employee in question didn't know what the policy was.
From what I've heard from some people on Paizo's boards that work at Fed Ex/Kinko's, if its watermarked, and if the people selling or distributing the PDF have the right to do so, they can print it out, as long as they have no reason to assume that you will be doing anything other than using it for personal use.
The "people distributing have the rights to do so" thing comes from a few months back when the people at the Dragonlance Nexus put out their Adlatum sourcebook, which apparently can't be copied because the Nexus, even though they are giving it out for free, doesn't have the rights to grant permission to print Dragonlance material. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 02:06:57
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Not sure Jakk but all I know is that it'll make a new Copy Right Czar to go after pirates, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
To play it safe, least around here, because I've tried that at Stables and Office Max, you should contact the PDF copy writer and ask them. Most would usually give permission but better to cover your.... especially since Bush, today, signed the new copy right law.
Doesn't that law make photocopiers illegal in their entirety?
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 02:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Doesn't that law make photocopiers illegal in their entirety?
It's not like they didn't try.
Still, Basic Books v. Kinko's made the copy places skittish. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 02:16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Staples won't do it, as it is illegal, or at least opens them up to liability in a copyright violation lawsuit. Just telling them that you're using it for personal use will not help. Virtually all copy companies have a policy that if it's got the little '©' on it, they won't copy it. They have to be careful, because the publishing industry watches them like hawks.
-I've never had this happen to me once. Mind you, all I've ever done was have copies of character sheets made, but never once were any questions asked. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 04:26:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
To play it safe, least around here, because I've tried that at Stables and Office Max, you should contact the PDF copy writer and ask them. Most would usually give permission but better to cover your.... especially since Bush, today, signed the new copy right law.
Doesn't that law make photocopiers illegal in their entirety?
Not at all... just like VCRs and tape recorders were never illegal. These things have legitimate uses and making them illegal to protect copyrighted (and/or trademarked) material would be hurting more people than it helps. So, when legality comes into question, its not the device but the use of it that makes the difference.
You can own a photocopier (or tape recorder, VCR, DVDr, etc). You cannot use that device to illegally reproduce copyrighted material. If you do so, you put yourself at risk of liability should the incident ever go to court. This is why companies like Staples or Kinkos have policies in place against making copies of just any old thing... because they become implicated in the crime by aiding the criminal. And even if you assure them that your copy is for personal use only, they have no way of knowing what you will do with it once you leave their store... for all they know, you went to every similar store in the surrounding area getting one copy made "for personal use only" and have a dozen or more copies already. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 05:17:39
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| I've never had a problem as long as it's watermarked... |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 15:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Staples won't do it, as it is illegal, or at least opens them up to liability in a copyright violation lawsuit. Just telling them that you're using it for personal use will not help. Virtually all copy companies have a policy that if it's got the little '©' on it, they won't copy it. They have to be careful, because the publishing industry watches them like hawks.
-I've never had this happen to me once. Mind you, all I've ever done was have copies of character sheets made, but never once were any questions asked.
As I said, your mileage may vary base on the incompetance of the copy staff at your local Staples. And the self-serve machines are like the Wild West. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 23:07:52
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
That's kind of funny since I've had all of my PDFs of Pathfinder Society Adventures run off at Staples
I've been told that as long as the PDF has a watermark indicating the person having it printed out as the owner, its fine with them to print it out, but I've also heard a few people have their PDFs turned away because the employee in question didn't know what the policy was.
From what I've heard from some people on Paizo's boards that work at Fed Ex/Kinko's, if its watermarked, and if the people selling or distributing the PDF have the right to do so, they can print it out, as long as they have no reason to assume that you will be doing anything other than using it for personal use.
Thanks, maybe the next time I want something from a PDF run off I'll try Kinko's or FedEx first. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 21:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
To play it safe, least around here, because I've tried that at Stables and Office Max, you should contact the PDF copy writer and ask them. Most would usually give permission but better to cover your.... especially since Bush, today, signed the new copy right law.
Doesn't that law make photocopiers illegal in their entirety?
Not at all... just like VCRs and tape recorders were never illegal. These things have legitimate uses and making them illegal to protect copyrighted (and/or trademarked) material would be hurting more people than it helps. So, when legality comes into question, its not the device but the use of it that makes the difference.<chop>
 I know that; I was being sarcastic, which is just about the only genuine emotion I have any more. [/sarcasm] 
I'm very happy that I have a laser all-in-one at home so I can create and print my own PDFs... I just wish I could afford to buy toner for it. But that's secondary; I like having my legitimately-purchased rulebooks (esp. those for 3E) in PDF form because Wizards decided that advertising was more important than subject indexing for most of them. In fact, I think that the FRCS is the only 3E FR book that has an index; but I could be wrong.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2008 : 20:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[quote]I'm very happy that I have a laser all-in-one at home so I can create and print my own PDFs... I just wish I could afford to buy toner for it. But that's secondary
Join the club  that's why I print my RPG PDF's at school. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 21:24:41
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| This is one sticky subject. ::cringes:: |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Question about Realms PDFs
