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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
538 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 01:51:05
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How do you RP the results of a succubus level drain?
Since a succubus turns victims into wights do they start looking wight like? More pale, gaunt and wrinkled with each level?
How does the receiver of the level drain react? Does he know after the first time what is happening to him? I assume he wouldn't if the secondary suggestion like effect were to work.
How have people run this in their campaigns, is there any presidence in the FR setting of the results of a succubus's victims? Novels or adventures?
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The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 05:27:04
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I myself can't remember (at the moment) novels or adventures covering this, but I expect that if you follow the model of, say, the original life-draining horror (that is, Stoker's version of Dracula), you can't go wrong. (I myself have done it this way in a Ravenloft adventure or two.)
The victim starts looking pale, poorly rested, weak. The condition gets worse and worse (particularly if the succubus is taking her time), with the victim just wasting away. They'll probably never know what's going on, because the succubus will surely have enveloped the draining in a hypnotic cloud of suggestion (again, see Dracula).
The succubus as a sex-fiend has another parallel as well (since victims will be particularly exhausted after a night of passion--and damn thirsty!)--but that depends how deeply you delve into that in your games.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4216 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 05:42:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I myself can't remember (at the moment) novels or adventures covering this, but I expect that if you follow the model of, say, the original life-draining horror (that is, Stoker's version of Dracula), you can't go wrong. (I myself have done it this way in a Ravenloft adventure or two.)
The victim starts looking pale, poorly rested, weak. The condition gets worse and worse (particularly if the succubus is taking her time), with the victim just wasting away. They'll probably never know what's going on, because the succubus will surely have enveloped the draining in a hypnotic cloud of suggestion (again, see Dracula).
The succubus as a sex-fiend has another parallel as well (since victims will be particularly exhausted after a night of passion--and damn thirsty!)--but that depends how deeply you delve into that in your games.
Cheers
Excellent! I think that is an excellent way. I had always looked at it more in a Tolkien sort of method...but that quickly gives away to others what is going on...I really like this idea and will use it myself. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Never forget to check what Paizo has to offer these days...
http://paizo.com/image/content/PathfinderChronicles/PZO1111-Cheliax.jpg
Nice piece of art. And what a way to go!
Hmm, I do remember a very old TV show called She-Wolf of London in which, as a succubus drained a man, he grew steadily older and more decrepit in appearance.
Now for some reason I have this nasty idea that, since most beings grow more experienced as they get older, what if the external effect of succubus lovin' was to make the victim look younger?
Untuil evenntually, of course, the poor foool vanishes into a lump of protoplasm. Or is that too squick-worthy? |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2008 : 19:15:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
Since a succubus turns victims into wights do they start looking wight like? More pale, gaunt and wrinkled with each level?
Succubi turn men into wights? Where was this said? Its news to me, I always thought that if a succubus drained you dry you were just dead.
Though didn't they say back in a 2nd Ed book that if a succubus drained all your levels you became a greater vampire? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 00:41:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Never forget to check what Paizo has to offer these days...
http://paizo.com/image/content/PathfinderChronicles/PZO1111-Cheliax.jpg
James Jaccobs hates that picture, because Erinyes don't level drain, and he hates anything that implies its hard to tell a succubus from an erinyes . . . he said if only the little energy marks around the mouth were gone, he'd love it . . .  |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
538 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 01:42:32
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Thanks Erik, it didn't occur to me to look at the original level drainer.
Ardashir the d20srd states:
quote:
Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.
The succubus's description says nothing about rising as a succubus so it defaults to a wight.
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The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 15 Oct 2008 01:43:35 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 03:04:29
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| I think it would be hilarious to see a dwarven battlerager die and rise as a succubus, but that's just me . . . |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 05:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Never forget to check what Paizo has to offer these days...
http://paizo.com/image/content/PathfinderChronicles/PZO1111-Cheliax.jpg
James Jaccobs hates that picture, because Erinyes don't level drain, and he hates anything that implies its hard to tell a succubus from an erinyes . . . he said if only the little energy marks around the mouth were gone, he'd love it . . .
Well, it could be a mutant succubus or perhaps an erinyes with a special power or spell that's delivered by touch (kiss preferred?) or any number of interpretations. Heck, could even be a fallen celestial (astral deva w/special template) just kissing the tied up guy and the artist high-lighting the kiss.
Anyway, if Mr. Jaccobs wants strict interpretation, there's this: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6222/pzo1111cheliaxrevisedrn6.jpg
I removed the lines, evened out the flesh tones on the guy, and darkened highlighted areas somewhat. I left the fiend's face fairly bright, shading in slightly around the mouth area so it wasn't so blatantly white... but is still bright in contrast to the guy to show there is still some power in her kiss --whether real or imagined is now up to the viewer to decide. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 05:51:24
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Oh! 
Now it just looks kinky!  |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 06:43:06
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Yeah... I like it, too.  |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 20:48:33
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Erinyes don't level drain, and he hates anything that implies its hard to tell a succubus from an erinyes . . .
Well . . . [putting on the scholar hat]
Technically, the erinyes are a set of vengeance goddesses that punish kinslayers and defilers, hounding them to the ends of the classical world.
(You might have heard of them--they're also called the Furies.  )
But ahem--D&D.
James makes a most excellent point about internal/game consistency. Well said, James!
IMO, that's a succubus who actually likes "clothes" (using the term loosely). I'm sure they'll be falling by the wayside shortly. 
Cheers
P.S. Back on the subject of "succubi" vs. "erinyes," it seems to me that while the creatures are two different things in the MM, yes, their developmental *purpose* in the game was the same--that is, to give both "sides" of the Blood War their own sexy female playmate--I mean soldier. Since "succubus" is closer to the concept of the two creatures, it makes sense that "succubus" is the name that stuck into 4e, rather than "erinyes."
Maybe we'll see an "erinyes" appear in a future MM as a vengeance goddess?
Who knows! |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 15 Oct 2008 20:49:18 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 21:00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
P.S. Back on the subject of "succubi" vs. "erinyes," it seems to me that while the creatures are two different things in the MM, yes, their developmental *purpose* in the game was the same--that is, to give both "sides" of the Blood War their own sexy female playmate--I mean soldier. Since "succubus" is closer to the concept of the two creatures, it makes sense that "succubus" is the name that stuck into 4e, rather than "erinyes."
I actually think the reason why "succubus" was the name that stuck is because it was more recognizable and widely used, and probably easier for more people to pronounce. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 21:52:58
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| Suck you bus. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Kamuraki
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 00:05:51
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| Succubus. How every man hopes to die. ;) |
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 17:13:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Erinyes don't level drain, and he hates anything that implies its hard to tell a succubus from an erinyes . . .
Well . . . [putting on the scholar hat]
Technically, the erinyes are a set of vengeance goddesses that punish kinslayers and defilers, hounding them to the ends of the classical world.
(You might have heard of them--they're also called the Furies. )
But ahem--D&D.
I liked the explanation given for erinyes in the second Fiendish Codex, of them being warrior angels who fell along with the original Baatezu lords (and thus being of a different order of being than the other devils). Though that still doesn't explain why they go from special forces for the Blood Wars to "Psst, hey sailor, c'mere" Pleasure Devils focused on seduction.
Unless that's some sort of backhanded punishment from the archdevils: get 'promoted' from a warrior to a tramp. Really, the Hells seem to be full of 'promotions' that put you in a WORSE position than you were before...
quote:
IMO, that's a succubus who actually likes "clothes" (using the term loosely). I'm sure they'll be falling by the wayside shortly.
Cheers
Kinda OT but I always figured that fiends who stayed in the mortal world for too long would start picking up quirks from associating with humans and other mortals. Sometimes going as far as to start changing in alignment. Hey, IRL agents in deep cover for years have sometimes changed their loyalties, occasionally without even realizing it... so why not the fiends? |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 07:16:41
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| For visualizing I would compare this to the X-Men movies and to how "Rogue" affects other people with her power of draining. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 17:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki
Succubus. How every man hopes to die. ;)
This brings up a good question -- what do succubi get out of soul-draining? Brief pleasure? A satisfying meal? Or does a man who gets drained wind up their own personal property in the Abyss?
Lost souls seem to be the entire basis of the economy -- heck, the ecology -- of the Lower Planes, after all. |
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Yuen
Acolyte
Austria
22 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2008 : 07:00:52
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I don't think lower plains denizen require any sort of food. They'll probably only eat adventurers because they like to. If you dig through some real world mythology you'll probably find out that succuby rely on some sort of life force. But this is the realms and devils are made of pure evil stuff, don't need to sleep/feed/breath and cannot die of old age.
As you said the whole ecology of hell is based on souls. The blood war requires a constant supply of souls, and be it only to convert them to lower demons to send to the front lines. Now I can see 2 ways to get those souls: To turn people of any alignment chaotic evil (so they'll end up in the abyss after death), or sell their soul to a demon lord. I guess the sole purpose of a succubus' existance is to turn good men evil via promises of endless sexual pleasures in return for evil acts or their soul. They're like genetically enhanced supersoldiers, but designed for the bedroom.
As an adventurer you'll probably end up fighting every succubus you'll encounter, but as written above they're not made for combat. I guess the life force sucking is a remnant of real world mythology and just a side effect from the kiss to weaken them and make them even more susceptible to the "suggestions" that comes with the kiss as well. Or it might be a quick way to finish off Joe the Commoner with his 1 HD after doing the job of getting his soul. |
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Succubus Level Drain
