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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 23:32:46
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Okay, now I know that Malar the Bloody Beast hates elves and fey, but has any reason ever been given for why?
Also, when they say 'hate' just how deep is that hatred? In the Champions of Ruin book they spoke of a mixed drow/wood and wild elf cult within Cormanthor that worshipped Malar and a tribe of weretigers in the woods. (Hmm, I'm wondering that one member of the Black Blood, Vakennis, is also involved with them.)
Also... does anyone else agree with me that if the Lunar Ravagers exist on Faerun (brutal, murderous hunter Fey from MMIV), they almost certainly worship Malar? Considering how they act, it's hard to see just who else they'd be venerating.
Thanks all.
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 01:29:44
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The only angle I can come up with is that, perhaps, elves were the first civilized force that entered into Malar's domains. Perhaps events from those times were particularly awful (elven high magic can get pretty awful) and Malar has never forgotten, nor forgiven, those actions.
Elves also tend to live closer to nature than the other civilized races, so the fact that their in his back yard and he can't barely manage to catch a few every now and again might be a driving force in his hatred.
Personally, I feel that Malar has been presented as more of a buffoon than he should have been. He seems more psychotic than predator and more horror than hunt. I've speculated on potential reasons for Malar actually being this way but I haven't thought about it enough to have anything really solid yet. |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 06:22:47
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Evil fey generally worship (or at least propitiate) Titania's vengeful sister, called The Queen of Air and Darkness.
As for Malar, he opposes both cultural sophistication and more peaceable wilderness powers such as Nobanion. Whether he already hated and hunted elves when Araushnee seduced him to her cause is uncertain, but he certainly would not like them any better after having been bested by the Seldarine when assisting in Araushnee's rebellion.
Corrupting elves to his own worship at the expense of the Seldarine is probably seen as a desireable revenge against this ancient insult. |
Edited by - Vangelor on 24 Sep 2008 06:25:27 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 14:58:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Vangelor
Corrupting elves to his own worship at the expense of the Seldarine is probably seen as a desireable revenge against this ancient insult.
And he does indeed have elven worshippers--there's one in Black Wolf. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 24 Sep 2008 14:58:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 15:18:37
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| Elves and fey are pretty much the diametrical opposites of Malar. He glories in the violence of nature, in bloodshed, gore, and pointless violence. Elves and fey live in harmony with nature, and glory in its beauty. So elves are totally opposite, and will in fact work against what Malar wants -- so his hateed of them is quite understandable. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 17:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Personally, I feel that Malar has been presented as more of a buffoon than he should have been. He seems more psychotic than predator and more horror than hunt. I've speculated on potential reasons for Malar actually being this way but I haven't thought about it enough to have anything really solid yet.
I agree; in the stories, Malar seems to have been presented as a stereotyped buffoonish hunter from a kid's cartoon rather than the terrible, blood-soaked force of nature that he is. Which really undercuts the menace he's supposed to present at times.
Hmm, while talking about Malar, what worshippers does he have aside from human and demihumans? Do chaotic evil humanoids and giants ever worship him (i.e., gnolls, bugbears, and ogres, for example)?
I remember that he has some orcish worshippers in the High Forest, but they seem kind of isolated. Gruumsh probably isn't any too happy with some punk local deity swiping some of his orcs... |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 18:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
[quote]Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I agree; in the stories, Malar seems to have been presented as a stereotyped buffoonish hunter from a kid's cartoon rather than the terrible, blood-soaked force of nature that he is. Which really undercuts the menace he's supposed to present at times.
-You haven't yet read Sentinelspire. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 00:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
[quote]Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I agree; in the stories, Malar seems to have been presented as a stereotyped buffoonish hunter from a kid's cartoon rather than the terrible, blood-soaked force of nature that he is. Which really undercuts the menace he's supposed to present at times.
-You haven't yet read Sentinelspire.
No, I haven't. I assume they do something special with the Bloodlord in it? |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 06:39:10
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Does anyone know when Malar killed Hern/Hurn/Herne?
I THINK it was during the Time of Troubles, from what I read in Faiths and Avatars...I'm just wanting to make sure. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 29 Aug 2010 06:45:58 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 09:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Does anyone know when Malar killed Hern/Hurn/Herne?
I THINK it was during the Time of Troubles, from what I read in Faiths and Avatars...I'm just wanting to make sure.
According to the Evermeet novel it happened just before Araushnee met with Malar, pre-30 000 DR. Maybe that's just a myth representing the fragmentation of the Cult of the Beast (from Dragon 54), because we know that Herne is still worshipped in the High Forest, and there's Herne's Wood in the Utter East. |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 11:48:03
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| Malar is fine but... I hate when the characters are put there, strongest as a god, just to be beaten by the good guy without reason. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 16:25:40
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Malar long had an association with Talos, and it turns out that Talos was revealed to be the human aspect of Gruumsh. I have long speculated that during the War of Light and Darkness, Shar brought fiends and other dark gods to Realmspace to fight in her war against Selūne and Chauntea. Gruumsh/Talos was one of these gods enlisted by Shar to fight on her side.
Now Malar is one of the Gods of Fury; he has always been associated with Talos. Malar is a nature god, in fact an embodiment of the savage side of nature, hunting, stalking, bloodlust and marauding. After careful consideration, I conclude that Malar had his origin during the War of Light and Darkness as the result of Talos forcing himself upon Chauntea in a savage assault. Malar is thus the son of Chauntea and Talos. And as Talos is Gruumsh, Malar is therefore Gruumsh's son.
This would help to explain Malar's hatred of elves and his alliance with the Anti-Seldarine. Malar is simply carrying on his father's vendetta against the scions of Corellon. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 20:00:16
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That is a good view on Malar; but not my own personal take on his origins.
To me, Malar would have been unleashed long ago on the world by Silvanus as punishment and an equalizing force against the rising tide of civilization wrought by the Elves.
That is just my thought, and I've yet to find anything to support that opinion. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 22:20:24
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Herne seems to me a very 'Elfy' god, and I would hazard to guess that he was part of some pre-Elven Fey pantheon.
Now, if you add-in Gray's take, or at least some portion of it, we wind up with an 'Orcish' power representing the feral side of the Hunt, and a Fey (Elven) power representing the civilized side of hunting - the dichotomy of two sides of the same coin - one Seelie (Seldarine), and one Unseelie (Anti-Seldarine).
If both powers were part of some earlier, more primal power that was shattered for whatever reason, it covers any gaffs in that both are two different versions of the same thing anyway.
Also, the Herne in the Evermeet novel was not killed on Toril, so it may have not even been the same Herne as the Torillian power. Malar may be 'hunting' all the 'lost bits' of himself when he was fragmented, all over the multiverse (which seems to be exactly what he was doing when Araushnee came upon him).
Just thought of something funny - given all the new lore we have, that entire scene could have taken place on Abeir. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Aug 2010 22:22:28 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 02:43:35
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| One word: Cernunnos. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 12:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
... because we know that Herne is still worshipped in the High Forest, and there's Herne's Wood in the Utter East.
By all I understand of gods killing and absorbing other deities, according to 2e sources, Malar could be venerated under the name/alias Herne, even if he is not the ORIGINAL Herne. That means that even if the humanoids from the High Forest say they are worshipping Herne, they are - willingly or not - directing their devotion to Malar. After all, now the ancient deity IS part of the Beast Lord, even if it was somehow corrupted. Of course, maybe this line of thinking is not valid anymore. 
And I'm not sure, but I really think the battle between Herne and Malar happens in Toril. I think it is confirmed a little later, in the same Evermeet novel. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 30 Aug 2010 12:30:38 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:39:06
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| You are correct. Malar did indeed take Herne's name as an alias and is still worshipped under that name by the orcs of the High Forest. See Faiths & Pantheons in Malar's entry under "Aliases." |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:42:32
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| Correction, I meant to say Faiths & Avatars, although the info about Herne can also be found in the main text of his entry in Faiths & Pantheons as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2010 : 20:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
And I'm not sure, but I really think the battle between Herne and Malar happens in Toril. I think it is confirmed a little later, in the same Evermeet novel.
Nope, I investigated and proved this point on the WotC boards some time ago.
In that scene, Araushnee comes upon Malar killing Herne and is impressed by his ferocity and enlisted his aid. She is present on the world the battle takes place on, and is STILL Araushnee at that time.
MUCH later her attention - as LOLTH - is drawn to Toril for the first time, when she takes note of that evil Dark-Elven (Ilythiir) Wizard (I forget his name and am not near sources), IIRC. It is specifically stated later in that novel when she first takes note of Toril and its inhabitants.
I doubt Lolth would 'forget' she had already been there, and had first encountered Malar there - that makes little sense to me.
And this thread and train of thought has got me re-thinking some things I had been considering about the Giants and Fey. {we need a head-scratching smiley!} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2010 : 09:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
By all I understand of gods killing and absorbing other deities, according to 2e sources, Malar could be venerated under the name/alias Herne, even if he is not the ORIGINAL Herne. That means that even if the humanoids from the High Forest say they are worshipping Herne, they are - willingly or not - directing their devotion to Malar. After all, now the ancient deity IS part of the Beast Lord, even if it was somehow corrupted. Of course, maybe this line of thinking is not valid anymore.
That's true. I think it's not the same case as e.g. Leira and Cyric, the mystery is why would Malar pretend to be Herne, where is the moral issue for orcs? Otherwise 30 000 years is a very, very long time to remember Herne. Maybe these orcs are immortal, like it appears that some of Tolkien's orcs are. Now you've given me an idea to use jhaguts from the Malazan world  .
It seems to me that the murder of Herne happened in the Beastlands, Araushnee was the Spider Lord at the time. The Beast would be one of Ed's ''Watcher gods'' ... |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2010 : 12:24:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
... the mystery is why would Malar pretend to be Herne, where is the moral issue for orcs? Otherwise 30 000 years is a very, very long time to remember Herne.
I dunno, maybe it is easier to Malar to keep the orcs that weren't present at the site of the battle thinking they are worshipping Herne than introducing himself, maybe confusing them. Or simply, he doesn't care. Since their devotion is strengthening him, why bother saying to the orcs "Hey, your Herne was defeated, from now on call me Malar"? And then, how the name persisted? The orcs kept teaching their descendnts THIS name. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 01:02:16
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| Well, game products trump novels for me...and in Faiths and Avatars it clearly states that Malar slew Herne c. 1358 DR |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 02:16:39
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Thus proving my point that the Herne slain in the Evermeet novel was NOT the Realms Herne.
Just a thought: What if there was a first battle between the two, probably in the Beastlands? Some sort of primal conflict between 'civilized' hunting and pure, feral bloodlust. Herne realizes he is about to lose, and 'detaches' his Avatars (granting them autonomy), thus fragmenting his power so Malar can't get to most of it. Malar is enraged, and spends the next few thousand years tracking-down and absorbing all the 'hernes' that he feels are rightfully his.
During the course of 'The Hunt', several of the (DvR1)Avatar's gain followers and momentum of their own, thus increasing their Divine rank and acquiring their own avatars, which only adds to Malars fury, frustration... and I suppose, fun. He has found the ultimate 'query' - one that can multiply and keep popping up forever.
Like I said, just a thought; just another of those 'Since the Dawn of Time' conflicts. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Sep 2010 02:21:53 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 17:19:49
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That would be a sound plan. The other possibility is that he's Earth's Herne who interloped multiple times. Or like you said elsewhere he's universal Herne, who transcends crystal spheres, that is a much better theory.
What if Herne rises and dies each time there is a Wild Hunt, it lasts until he meets a worthy, more primal opponent, then the hunter becomes the prey |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 18:00:48
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That sounds much more in keeping with the original concept of the 'Wild Huntsmen'. This was touched upon briefly in Mists of Avalon, wherein there was a contest comprising of a ritual hunt, where the 'new king' (chieftan/pack leader/ect) would seek out and destroy the earthly manifestation of the Huntsmen (who appeared as a massive stag during the hunt). Each time the ritual was performed, a new 'huntsmen' took form.
I just thought of a decent lore-patch tied to this. Awhile back Lord Karsus and I were mulling over the aberrant appearance of the Black Archer in a VERY early realms story (during the Dragon-rule era). We solved the anachronistic conundrum in the Elven netbook by saying there was an original fey power with this title, who was killed, and later when Shevarash ascended he took the title of 'The Black Archer' for himself. We had thought this original archer was probably one of the Yuir Totems, who we now know were archfey.
This could have been Cernunnos, who could have possibly been known as 'Herne' amongst the humans and Orcs of Faerun. This manifestation of the Huntsmen could have been killed either early in the Crown Wars, or just before them (when the dragons ruled over some Elves).
Hmmmmm... The Battle of God's Theater....
What if Cernunnos (in Elven form) were leading the troops of one of the factions against the other Elves (since the Black Archer is all about vengeance against betrayer-Elves), and Malar caught wind of it, and asked his old buddy Gruumsh to send a Horde at the elves, thus isolating Cernunnos from the army and enabling Malar to kill him undisturbed?
That scenario would sure as heck fit the name of that particular ill-fated engagement, and the time frame is perfect.
And as always, eventually 'The Huntsmen' arises anew in the form of yet another Herne - I get the feeling there may have been one between the death of the 1st black Archer and Shevarash, but who knows.
This would mean Malar is gunning for Shevarash - how are their relations? I have no books with me where I am.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 19:51:03
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I remember the thread about the lost Yuir deities, always thought Yuir and Talfir are somehow related cause of the stone circles. Never been a fan of Shevarash, if this was true he'd be more tolerable. He's not in good relations with Malar cause Malar is with Lolth.
Forgot about Mists of Avalon, ever read Mythago Wood by Holdstock, it has Herne. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2010 : 23:13:11
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Well, since the Yuir Totems have canonically (I think) become Achfey, and it makes some sense that the celtic pantheon is at least in-apart derived from Fey powers, and many of us have figured the Talfir for a neo-Celtic culture from the Realms (and therefor use Realms-versions of those gods), it would make perfect sense if the Yuir torems were the 'fey powers' mentioned at the beginning of the GHotR and were also the gods of early humans in the Realms, most notably the Talfir.
The humans at that time were barely neolithic, and would have to have adopted more advanced religious views and customs from the only other source available - those first Sylvan Elves. Before that they most likely revered totemic & ancestor spirits (a small piece of which survives today in the Uthgardt and some far north-eastern cultures, like the Issa-Cortae and Wu-Haltai).
The dwarves of the east (who appear more like tall Gnomes) also have a very primitive shamanistic culture as well. My thinking on this s that this group fell on some pretty hard times - my current thinking is that this was the remainder of the group that found the Black Diamond, and were thus 'cursed'. This is why they did not turn to the Fey Gods that so many other early groups did, but shunned them (or rather, were shunned by them). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Sep 2010 23:14:43 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2010 : 01:45:27
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I have a rather pretty idea of why Malar is after Herne, and it does have to do with a fragmented god.
Cernunnos is described as a shapechanging hunter.
However, he is also God of many other things as well: Lord of the Horned Serpent (dragons anyone?). Since he is also the God of Hoards...
I'm leaning toward an idea that Cernunnos was once an Arch-Fey of incredible power who was later fragmented when he was torn between continuing to act as guardian over his humanoid followers and remaining part of the Fey Court. He may have even been punished for refusing Titania...or spurning her.
We know that Auril was previously an Arch-Fey...and I believe that Cernunnos may have been one of the first Fey worshiped by Humans that began a long line of "Celtic" gods. Now, I don't know if they came from him or came with him...but I know that out of all the Celtic gods I've found, Cernunnos is EXTREMELY Fey-like.
I've even thought about Cernunnos originating in Faerun, and then later fragmenting into numerous gods...maybe even "Dagda the Dozen King" and others. To me, perhaps the "Celtic Pantheon" as loose as it is, could have originated TO Earth instead of the reverse.
Lot of rambling there...but I think I got across what I was trying to say in general.
Specifically, I'm leaning heavily toward Malar being one of the more animalistic aspects of Cernunnos that is instinctively trying to regain some of his power.
I remember some mention of a story concerning The Three in which Malar even tried to take some of Jergal's power at one point when he was giving that power to The Three.
Anyone know that story or can relate it please? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2010 : 11:46:17
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Sylvan elves migrated to Yuir later, must be some other group of fey, like the maraloi, or leshay?
What if Auril's defense against the madness of the Black Diamond was to become cold and emotionless. Cernunnos (or whatever the name) found a different way, framentation (inspired by the World Serpent?), as if cutting of a diseased limb. The diseased part became Malar. He probably had the murder portfolio then. Probably a gift from Dark God (Moander the Darkbringer). Moander wanted to bring the power of the Creator Races to an end (check Netheril under Moander's Footstep). Moander got the portfolio from Panzuriel, and that maybe involved the corruption of Umberlee (check Spellbound where it says that the half-elves of Yuir believe that a great sea god keeps watch over a terrible sea-giant). Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul are called Dark Gods, just like Moander once was, before Jergal took that from him. That's why Malar wanted his ancient portfolios. Was Kezef really created by Jergal, he could be a fragmented part of the Hunt.
We know what happened to Titania and Auril during the fall of Ladinion, were other fey gods mentioned at all (beside possibly Cegilune)?
Emmantiensien surely was there cause he's the most ancient, note that his roots are curled around a magic crystal. Maybe Relkath, Rillifane, Silvanus etc. are fragments as well. Interestingly it was Silvanus who ended the evil gem's hold over Auril.
Grey mentioned Arawn in the Talfir thread, he is also known as the Wild Hunter. Arawn had the portfolios Jergal took. Was Malar once Arawn? Arawn of Annwn where coincidentally or not Yggdrasil has its roots (Emmantiensien?). And there is Dendar/Nidhogg/Jormungandr gnawing, I wonder who spawned the linnorms. It would fit cause Moander allied with dragons against the Creator Races ...
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Edited by - Quale on 03 Sep 2010 11:47:52 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2010 : 05:33:51
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Interesting discussion - I have to think on it some more. What if Cernunnos was somehow the World Serpent's polar opposite?
Still not near my sources, dammit - do we have a time frame for when the WS fragmented? If the World serpent was a primordial, and the archfey sided with the gods (some of them, anyway), the fragmentation may have occurred as a byproduct of Ao's separating the worlds.
If it happened sometime later, and we attached the World Serpent to the Draconic pantheon (an aspect of Io?), then we may be able to attach Cernunnos to the Norse/Giantish pantheon(s) - he could have also been known as Ullr (As a 'bow god' he seems a good fit for the Balck Archer of the Elves). Uller (as Ollerus) took over for Odin during the time period he was missing, so he was somewhat important to the Norse, perhaps even a 'High (Over) God'.
So, if all of these pantheons are inter-related, with lots of cross-overs, then Annam (as 'The All-Father) may have been Odin, who disappeared for a time (during his dalliance with Othea?). Ergo, the Giants were aware of - and may have venerated some of - the Norse pantheon under other names - giving us a VERY 'iffy' connection of Cernunnos to the Giants (through His Ullr manifestation).
So the fragmentation of the two deities - Herne/Cernunnos and Io/World Serpent may have come-about during the Thousand Year War. In fact, it may have been the destruction/fragmentation of the Hunter-God Ullr that required Odin/Annam to return to Asgard and set the Realms aside. Take note that Annam was allowed back to Faerun once his last son was born.
Ullr is also know as the 'Snow God', which could possibly give him interesting connections to Auril or Ulitiu (one of which is definitely an archfey, and the other a high possibility of the same). Wasn't there the name of an Elven Snow God listed for the Realms in a Dragon magazine article? Something to do with Auril, in fact? Sounds like an 'in' to me.
I'm really NOT leaning toward the second theory, but without having any dates in front of me I'm just trying different ways to make things fit. I think the fragmentation occurring during the world-split sounds most appropriate; deities that had questionable allegiances or split worshiper-bases may have opted for this rather then being forced to choose one world or the other. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Sep 2010 05:39:51 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2010 : 15:46:41
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The World Serpent fragmented into a pantheon at the height of the sarrukh civilization, first time when the nonsarrukh souls where sacrificed to it. I'm not sure what it is in 4e, a primordial, god, or spirit.
Is Ullr one of the Vanir?
There are two cold elven gods, Tarsellis Mend-something and Rellavar Danuvien, who is also called the Frost Sprite King. Interestingly one of Auril's new/ancient titles is the Frost Sprite Queen ...
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Malar, the fey, and the elves
