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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2010 : 03:55:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The World Serpent fragmented into a pantheon at the height of the sarrukh civilization, first time when the nonsarrukh souls where sacrificed to it. I'm not sure what it is in 4e, a primordial, god, or spirit.
Is Ullr one of the Vanir?
There are two cold elven gods, Tarsellis Mend-something and Rellavar Danuvien, who is also called the Frost Sprite King. Interestingly one of Auril's new/ancient titles is the Frost Sprite Queen ...
Dang, the more you guys talk...the more you are hitting right on where I was going with things! Not exactly mind you; but Rellavar Danuvien being the Frost Sprite King and Auril formerly the Frost Sprite Queen was exactly one of the ways I thought about bringing Cernunnos in...as a tie in to Auril. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2010 : 04:53:05
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LOL - sorry again, DD.
Ullr is/was not one of the Vanir, which does make him an oddity for where I was going with that.
Hmmm... checking Wiki now, and apparently there is a theory that both Heimdal (Helm?) and Ullr were Vanir originally.
Also, the father of Frey and Freya, Njörðr, is a sea god... interesting... he and Odin both had a thing for a giantess named Skaði. Njörðr was definately a Vanir, and therefor a Fey deity, which Ulutiu most-likely was, so this is all making some sort of weird sense.
I was just reading about him, and apparently he got into a heated argument with Loki, that Tyr broke-up.
Wonder who our Loki could be? Bane is too serious, as were Myrkul and Baal. Loki is also too malicious to be one of FR's 'trickster gods'. I'm thinking Mask is out closest fit, but its far from perfect. He'd have to be ancient - Loki is the father of Fenris (Kezif) and the World serpent! He is also the father of Hel..... Jergal? It could just be that Loki was never interested in the Realms, or was removed from them early-on.
Interstingly, he is considered both a Jotun (Primordial) and an Aesir (god), so it is technically possible to be both (according to mythology, although not, perhaps, D&D canon). I had some theories in that vein in regards to Selune and Shar, and now I have a precedent that a Jotun/Primordial can become a god if accepted into the pantheon.
Maybe he wound up in Abeir.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Sep 2010 05:03:23 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 19:37:08
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Just finding the recent updates to this scroll now... Markustay, I have a theory for you... if we take into account the recent lore from Paul Kemp's novels (hidden spoiler follows):
Mask is the son of Shar (spoiler done), so Mask could very well be that old a deity, depending on who his other parent is (note that I didn't say "father", and there may not even be another parent; Mystryl is the child of Shar and Selune, after all). But what if Loki is the father of Mask, as well as Jergal, by the aforementioned mother? In my Realms, the Norse pantheon is alive and well in its entirety; I've discussed that at great length in other scrolls here. Even if your Realms doesn't have the Norse pantheon currently extant, the goddess in question isn't the type to let her mates live if she thinks killing them would be enjoyable, and that would easily account for Loki's absence.
Of course, Alystra might actually have a point... although it would probably take some twisting to make it work...
I'm with you on the Dead Three; Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul (all three of whom are back in my Realms, not just Bane) were ascended mortals who achieved divinity probably sometime between the raising of the Standing Stone and the fall of Myth Drannor. None of them are nearly old enough. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 19:46:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I have a rather pretty idea of why Malar is after Herne, and it does have to do with a fragmented god.
Cernunnos is described as a shapechanging hunter.
However, he is also God of many other things as well: Lord of the Horned Serpent (dragons anyone?). Since he is also the God of Hoards...
I'm leaning toward an idea that Cernunnos was once an Arch-Fey of incredible power who was later fragmented when he was torn between continuing to act as guardian over his humanoid followers and remaining part of the Fey Court. He may have even been punished for refusing Titania...or spurning her.
We know that Auril was previously an Arch-Fey...and I believe that Cernunnos may have been one of the first Fey worshiped by Humans that began a long line of "Celtic" gods. Now, I don't know if they came from him or came with him...but I know that out of all the Celtic gods I've found, Cernunnos is EXTREMELY Fey-like.
I've even thought about Cernunnos originating in Faerun, and then later fragmenting into numerous gods...maybe even "Dagda the Dozen King" and others. To me, perhaps the "Celtic Pantheon" as loose as it is, could have originated TO Earth instead of the reverse.
Lot of rambling there...but I think I got across what I was trying to say in general.
Specifically, I'm leaning heavily toward Malar being one of the more animalistic aspects of Cernunnos that is instinctively trying to regain some of his power.
I remember some mention of a story concerning The Three in which Malar even tried to take some of Jergal's power at one point when he was giving that power to The Three.
Anyone know that story or can relate it please?
Yes... apologies if this has already been answered, but this post grabbed my attention for other reasons I'll get to shortly. The story is "Knucklebones, Skull Bowling, and the Empty Throne"; see Sandro's post from 26 Sept 2009 in this link:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9249
Anyway, what grabbed my attention was, well, the whole post; I suspect I'll be using a lot (if not all) of this. In particular, the idea that the Celtic pantheon originated in the Realms and migrated to Earth. I've done something similar with the Norse pantheon, and now I'm certainly doing the same with the Celtic, now that I see your lines of thought here. Brilliant!
I had almost reached the point of "de-Celtifying" the Moonshaes altogether and letting the Northmen have it all... but this gives me all kinds of new ideas.... more gods in the Realms, not fewer! Mwahahahahaha!  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 12 Sep 2010 19:47:06 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 08:48:06
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It's really far from canon, but the way I play it is that Ragnarok already happened (related to the Dawn Cataclysm), and gods like Tyr, Balder (Lathander) would be a few survivors, similar happened in other pantheons, like Celtic Silvanus and Oghma. Similar to Alystra, Cyric is Loki in a way Midnight is Mystra, only there is an even greater conflict of personalities.
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Malar, the fey, and the elves
