| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 21:34:57
|
| No, but I do appreciate that they take the time to try to find logic and lore where there wasn't any. If not for people like them, we wouldn't have much of the lore we already DO have. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
 |
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 22:42:02
|
-Just wait until next month when the next Cale novel is released. I sense a major knee-jerk reaction coming. 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 23:06:22
|
I better post something Kara-Turan today - this thread is turning into another one of those love/hate 4e threads.
My knees don't jerk anymnore, and it's not so much the arthritis as it is the fact that I just can't seem to care enough about that kind of stuff. A heavy sigh is about all I'm good for these days when new lore becomes available.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 11 Nov 2008 01:53:00 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2008 : 23:18:14
|
I'm inclined to agree with Markus. This discussion scroll is exclusively for talking about the Maps of Shou Lung. Let's leave the pro/anti- 4e banter for other more appropriate scrolls, eh?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 01:18:05
|
| Kara-Tur map much? =D |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 02:45:27
|
Lol
Now that the Returned Abeir Map is off to Alaundo, I'm back to this. I should be sending off newer versions of the Hordelands to him tonight as well (split into two parts, like the originals).
And yes, a finished Kara-Tur map is not far behind. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 13:50:38
|
-Well its about time dude. 
BRIMSTONE (Who could put some kinda annoying statement here but wont!)  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 20:26:19
|
I'm puttng some polish on the Hordelands still (really the Yehimal Mountains - GAWD, I HATE Mountains!), and as soon as I send those off later today I should have some new stuff to show you guys with Kara-Tur. 
Sorry for the delays - my mind is like a squirrel caught in someone's headlights - it wants to run in a thousand directions at once (and usually just darts around in place not accomplishing much). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Nov 2008 20:26:49 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 20:51:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There is a connection between the two that we worked out back in that Utter East thread, sage, and if I ever get around to actually putting all of that wonderful research together into a Netbook people will be able to finally enjoy it.
For those of you who didn't follow the thread - The Mar (of the Ue) first came to Faerūn across the Yehimals (via Langdarma), after the fall of the Kingdom of Tempat Larang. The people of Tempat Larang are themselves refugees from an earlier migration west after the collapse of the Mahanaga Empire (Mahasarpa WE).
All of these peoples are Indianesque, but the Mar are more of an Indo-Aryan culture. Thats mostly Homebrew, BTW, from various Netbook and research projects, many of which I had some very excellent help with. Its all based in canon lore, however, so it doesn't contradict anything.
Sounds really cool! Now put aside that silly 4e distraction and get back to work on the real Realms! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 20:55:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
No, but I do appreciate that they take the time to try to find logic and lore where there wasn't any. If not for people like them, we wouldn't have much of the lore we already DO have.
I agree... I just wish there wasn't so much being held back. Anyway, I'm done ranting at length about it. I'm waiting for answers (or confirmation of NDA) on a couple more little points, then I have a PDF of the known Cormyr noble lineage ready for delivery. I need to untangle (as best I can) some Silver strands at the top, and I couldn't put in Faerlthann's birth year (stupid genealogy program won't let me do negative years), but it's otherwise as complete as can be until more lore gets released... I think.
Edit: Back to your comment: Garen Thal has done a great job with his Monday Musings, in trying to make the 4E changes make sense within the world; insofar as that is possible, he's managed to accomplish it. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 13 Nov 2008 20:59:41 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 21:31:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Sounds really cool! Now put aside that silly 4e distraction and get back to work on the real Realms!
The 4e Reals are the Real Realms - pre-3e Realms are but a dream now... like a lost love forever withheld from our tender embrace.
Okay... enough of the BS.
BOTH Realms are real, and I intend to support both geographically - I can't help myself; I just gotta map stuff.
Now, that being said...
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Back to your comment: Garen Thal has done a great job with his Monday Musings, in trying to make the 4E changes make sense within the world; insofar as that is possible, he's managed to accomplish it.
I started to read the first one, but then I found I really wasn't all that interested in explaining away 4e lore - I much prefer to keep the two VERY seperated in my mind, like alternate prime worlds existing in seperate realities. Any connection between the two starts to make my eye twitch... 
And that is in no way meant to be derogatory toward Garen Thal - I applaud his efforts - I just can't bring myself to care about them enough.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Nov 2008 21:32:59 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 23:48:28
|
| That's understandable, and I've done largely the same thing in terms of keeping the two separate; it helps that Abeir is virtually the only part of the 4E Realms that interests me apart from Cormyr and Netheril, and I got my 4E Cormyr fix while DDi was free... apart from Abeir, are you going to focus on "finishing" (in general terms, of course) the 3E world before you start on 4E Faerun? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 00:49:42
|
...
Well for me, they are technically connected. It's just, you don't have to set all campaigns in 1479 DR. A good chunk of people continue to use pre-Spellplague campaigns (including me, but I love 4E Realms), and there's no reason why you can't run 4E games in the Year of Wild Magic. Or, maybe you could just set 4E in 1479 DR WITHOUT the Spellplague happening.
But enough of that. Kara-Tur map...you has one?
---
You know, I have an ominous feeling something terrible happened to Shou Lung by 1479 DR...it seems kind of odd that
1) the Dragonwall is now gone: who knows what could be roaming on Ching Tung and Mai Yuan?
2)A disturbing about of refugees has fled into Faerun from Kara-Tur. A feudal Shou state has even formed: Nathalan.
...
I'm perfectly fine with the 4E Realms now, but Kara-Tur was an awesome continent for me, and if/when WotC release a supplement on Kara-Tur and almost all of Shou Lung is obliterated............. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 01:15:19
|
4e Homebrew:
As far as I'm concerned, Tan Chin has returned worse then ever and has now taken over both T'u Lung and Shou Lung, and is slowly trying to bring the rest of Kara-Tur into his clutches (Wa and Kozakura were both autonomous provinces, but Kozakura has since broken free - see the warlock Knights of Vassa thread over at WotC for more on that).
He's only recently been deterrred at both the Hordelands by a surprise alliance, and in the south by an unexpected threat that may even be worse then him!
None of that canon... for now... but I'm hoping to squeak some of that in through official sources.
Tan Chin as a monolithic Emperor Ming-style threat in the Eastern Lands just appeals on so many levels... and is the perfect place for your epic level 4e PCs to find a challenge later on. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Nov 2008 01:16:43 |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 17:51:01
|
Mark,
you said in the WotC page that you'd eventually be providing provincial maps of Wa and Kozakura. This true?
And, how's the Kara-Tur map? |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 18:03:18
|
Yup - I've decided to do something I haven't before, beause of size constraints - the two main Island Nations would be way too crowded if I were to try and fit everything on them from the smaller maps, so I am only going to have the major landmarks on the continental map and then do a more-detailed, higher-resolution one of just Koryo, Wa, and Kozakura (which I have started).
I did the Returned Abeir Map at a higher resolution as an experiment, and I like how it came out... A LOT... so I think I'll start making my smaller regional maps that way from now on.
BTW, I have a newer version of the Old Empires up on my site, if anyone's interested. As of right now, it's still a WIP for a few more days - I have someone else doing some research for me now. Once I know for sure it is finalized, I'll have Alaundo move it here in the library. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2008 20:33:48 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 20:01:46
|
Regarding the "placement of Returned Abeir" map... a couple of questions:
1. Does this mean that Returned Abeir is complete? I'm looking at inserting it somewhere in my Realms, not sure exactly where, but retconning it so it's always been there, but just recently discovered. I still can't swallow the whole Abeir-Toril-conjunction thing... but enough of that. The "swallow" metaphor happened as I accidentally swallowed a sore throat lozenge. 
2. Where did you get the geographical detail info for Katashaka? I've seen another WIP map of Toril by someone else somewhere on the Net that had Osse (the SE continent, correct?) fully detailed geographically with nothing named or settled, but I have no idea where the detail came from or whose map project it is, and now I can't find the original page online.
Edit: Found it! http://fantasymaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/map_planet_toril_2007.jpg |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Nov 2008 20:21:30 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 20:16:38
|
| -The Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas, as well as the 'Scholar's View of Abeir-Toril' on page 231 of the FRCG both provide basic 'shapes' of the terra incognita across the planet. From other clues, information can be extrapolated (Osse being an Australian Aborigine analogue of sorts, resulting in the continent having a climate and flora/fauna similar to Australia, for example). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 17 Nov 2008 20:17:48 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 20:23:16
|
I've seen the continental outlines, just nothing canonical beyond that; I was wondering if there were canonical sources for things like lakes, rivers, forests, and mountains. Anyway, check out the link; it's interesting, if not as well done as Mark's maps.
Edit: My primary reason for posting the link is so that Mark can see what others have done with Osse; as I've said, I have no idea if there is canon geography for those continents apart from the continental outlines, or if all of that is "so saith Ed" (close enough to canon for me) or completely undetailed at the moment.
Second Edit: Re: Dagnirion: As I understand it, Ed wasn't a big fan of the "just like Earth, only different" development of Mulhorand, Unther, and (especially) Maztica; in that respect, with those three areas getting obliterated, 4E has probably revitalized Ed's interest in contributing to the Realms, despite the loss of many of our favourite NPCs. That being said, I'm still doing away with Maztica, Mulhorand, and Unther in my own way, and keeping the NPCs and geography more or less intact... although I like the erasure of Anauroch; we have enough big deserts to the east and south of Faerun.
Given all of that, I suspect that Osse, Katashaka, and Anchorome will be developed quite differently from suspected plans, if they are developed at all by Wizbro. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Nov 2008 20:33:28 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 20:40:48
|
| Hrm... looking at that uncredited map again (the one I linked to above), I really like the geography of Osse as detailed therein. How about working with that, Mark? The next problem, I guess, is contacting the unknown author of that map. Although I completely understand if you want to wait for verified canon geography... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 20:49:31
|
Any geography I add to Anchorome from This guys site and Map, and any detail I add to Katashaka will be from my own adaption of the Nyambe Map, which you can view HERE. You'll note that I wrote my CK article with that setting in mind, and placed portals to explain how certain races were able to influence the continent during different points of it's development - that way everything in the very excellent Nyambe product can be used as-is for Katashaka. What little you see there is an extremely rough version - I was just pasting terrain all over to get a basic idea of how the geography was going to fall out.
Anchorome: I believe in always supporting what other scribes have done first, and I prefer my maps to compliment older versions - even homebrew.
And now I have a version of Osse to work with - thank you Jakk.
As for that large island I named Numibia - I originally wanted to set the Jakandor mini-setting there, but it is too close to Katashaka to mesh well with the lore from those products. Ergo, I now use Jakandor in place of the large island at the far-western end of the Zakharan chain. As for whats on Numibia - whatever a DM needs to be there.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Regarding the "placement of Returned Abeir" map... a couple of questions:
1. Does this mean that Returned Abeir is complete? I'm looking at inserting it somewhere in my Realms, not sure exactly where, but retconning it so it's always been there, but just recently discovered. <snip>
I agree with you - I like RA, but I don't like how they presented it (I would actually prefer it where BRJ placed it on his map - up in Anchorome).
I was going to put little bits of Lopango and Anchorome at the edges of that map, but then I realized a lot of people will be using Returned Abeir as a stand-alone setting, so I didn't want to force people to use my own placement (based on canon). I figure alot of people are going to do what you are doing with it, Jakk, and I'm glad I decided not to place any other landmasses on it now.
And yes, the map is completely finished for about a week now - Alaundo needs to create a new '4e map area' for this one, so we are just waiting on that. I don't want to paste any more 'sneak-peaks' of it on my DevinatART site because I want CK to have the exclusive on this (thus PROVING we are NOT an anti-4e site!!!)
Edit: Hmmmm... I just had a thought - I think when I do Anchorome I'm going to produce one blank (terrain only) and one with locales - I think the continent of Sarlona (Eberron) would make an interesting version of our Anchorome.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2008 21:04:04 |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 21:01:25
|
-That is outstanding Markus!
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2008 : 03:47:39
|
New continents? Osse? Katashaka? WAT?
Someone drag me from the Underdark. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2008 : 06:05:18
|
Not so new - Check It.
Just an update - when K-T was first introduced it was actually WAY bigger then what we have now, and in an effort to try ad fit K-T together with Faerūn, the Hordelands boxed set said to reduce the size of the scales from the original maps to 2/3 (so if 1 inch = 90 miles, it now equalled 60 miles, etc).
I took that into account when I started doing the maps, and although I just let kara-Tur fall-out whatever size was appropriate to line-up with the world map (because it was so huge it could afford to 'lose a few pounds'), I 'stretched' certain terrain so other things fit better - like the island kingdoms. I though I did a pretty decent job, and they looked about right for their original 1e sizes.
One problem - the maps were once again greatly reduced between 2e and 3e, and K-T was never taken into account, so when I slapped a scale on my re-sized versions they were still only about ½ their original sizes! 
What that does is not only make some of the lore laughable (how the heck does Kozakura field an army of 800,000?!), but it also screws up anyone trying to use the older modules to run an adventure now (the maps are wack).
My solution - the Island grew... AGAIN. I had to stop at about 70% of the original sizes, otherwise they would have looked ridiculous along side the mainland. As it is I had to do a LOT of fudging today to get everything halfway decent. I'm not thrilled that Wa's many weird Islands wound up in one of Shou's bays, and I'm not happy with the new 'truncated' version of Koryo, but it all works and thats the best I could manage and still try to keep everythin usable from the old material. The only thing I moved in a major way was the Island of the Gargantuas - since I couldn't increase the size of the little Islands as well as the main ones, I left them my original (3e) size. Now, I've already stated that I moved them MUCH closer to Shou-Lung, which makes no-sense for such an island , plus the Gargantuas now only had an island a few miles long to live on.
Think about that...
So I increased the size of that island to match the main ones and moved it out of the chain and further north and west (far enough away from other things to make sense). Hopefully I will have a new WIP of all that up by tomorrow. This is going to set me back a wee bit time-wise, but I think the end result will be worth it, and not only are those islands large enough to have a slew of adventures on now, but their closer proximity to Kara-Tur makes things a lot more intersting (and easier to get to, which is always a plus for DMs - the original K-T was so massive it would take a party weeks just to travel from one place to another).
It also means the province of Wak'an makes a little more sense - it's name means 'the province that views Wa'. It's still over a hundred miles away, but I'd like to know how they were viewing it back in 1e when those island were over a thousand miles away! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 18 Nov 2008 19:38:51 |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2008 : 18:10:22
|
They should totally re-name Wa to "Jaipan".
Mark...do you know what Riedra is? If so, name all the provinces (DON'T USE GOOGLE! >.<) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2008 : 19:43:02
|
Couldn't name the provinces off-hand, but I am pretty familiar with the Eberron material.
Thats why I thought about putting Sarlona where Anchorome is, and Xendrik where Katashaka is, as an 'alternate version' for some people (like myself, because I like both those continents). That doesn't mean I won't still do a 'normal' version - I just like to play around with stuff sometimes to see what it would look like.
I saw a world somewhere with EVERY D&D world grafted onto it, but I can't find it anymore. The thing was HUGE, and very, VERY cool. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 18 Nov 2008 19:43:43 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2008 : 19:47:22
|
| -Expect to see Tabot version 1.2 sometime this week, MT. I'm knocking out a bunch of Elven settlements, but once I tire of those- which will presumably be sometime later this week- I'm going to go back to world building in my own setting, and revising the Tabot article to further reflect some of the discussion we've had, as well as other revisions I want to make. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2008 : 03:59:52
|
Very Cool.
I need to start writing out a bunch of articles myself - I've just about done as much research as possible so its about time.
I'm thinking a Religous overview first... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2008 : 05:04:03
|
Meh. Tried to read the PDF of Eastern Realms again. SO CONFUSING! Only the Shou Lung part makes a fraction of a sense. Like you said earlier Markus, it's so unorganized, it has a bunch of different names that I've never even seen before...
I'll probably get mauled here or receive sly anti-4e remarks when I say this, but I HOPE WotC releases 4e of Kara-Tur. I'm almost sure it will be a lot more organized than the one I have now. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Map of Shou Lung?
