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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 04:48:54
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Let's face it: I love my settings in big, sprawling empires, not in the ruins of them. Which is why I'm glad Netheril is once again re-awakened.
But now abonding the Empire of Riedra, I have to ask: is there a full map of the Empire of Shou Lung? At all? Not partial maps or any of that I found on Google. Is there a clear map of it or will it forever be shrouded in mystery?
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 05:02:50
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quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Let's face it: I love my settings in big, sprawling empires, not in the ruins of them. Which is why I'm glad Netheril is once again re-awakened.
But now abonding the Empire of Riedra, I have to ask: is there a full map of the Empire of Shou Lung? At all? Not partial maps or any of that I found on Google. Is there a clear map of it or will it forever be shrouded in mystery?
the 2E boxed set of Kara-Tur |
Edited by - scererar on 17 Sep 2008 05:03:09 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 05:06:12
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I should have one up by the end of the week.
I've been working on it full-steam the last few days. T'u Lung will follow, then the island nations. The northern portion is done, I just need to finish up the coast. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 05:50:05
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| Well done, Markus. I am looking forward to theses maps. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 06:05:41
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| Really Mark? Provinces and all? |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 06:12:20
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There are also fantastic maps in the Forgotten Realms Atlas, one of my prize possessions. It even includes Koyru and Wu and the other Eastern Kingdoms on the map.
quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Really Mark? Provinces and all?
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 06:22:26
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The Kara-Tur Trail Map is big and packed with information, however you need the boxed set for the information on the tribal lands north of Shou Lung.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 13:58:42
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Hmmm...
I found a map on the web.
http://fantasymaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/more-miscellaneous-forgotten-realms/shoulung/
I honestly expected Shou Lung to be a bit...bigger. For the most "powerful nation in the world", it seems pathetically small to even Cormyr or Netheril.
Oh, and I tried to use that map, but it just directed me to a simple web page. No downloads, nothing.
And Mark, I will have your babies if you can get that map of Shou Lung/Kara-Tur in by the end of the week. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 14:26:10
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quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
I honestly expected Shou Lung to be a bit...bigger. For the most "powerful nation in the world", it seems pathetically small to even Cormyr or Netheril.
Well, size isn't everything. Think of England. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 15:50:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
I honestly expected Shou Lung to be a bit...bigger. For the most "powerful nation in the world", it seems pathetically small to even Cormyr or Netheril.
Well, size isn't everything. Think of England.
Bravo. That wins my 'Double-Entendre of the Day' Award.
Besides, that's only part of Shou Lung. It's a fairly large place, if I remember correctly from my days of blu-tacking all the 1"=90 mile maps together. |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 17:51:16
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| Well, my only hope is Mark then. Good luck Mark. |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 21:16:26
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Question for mark.
Will you be including provincial/regional borders in the Shou Lung map? I've seen your previous maps and you appear to stick to the tradition of not including national, nor provisional borders. Reason I'm so picky about provinces is I was hoping for Shou Lung to be ripped in a provisinal civil war. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2008 : 22:15:16
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Note: It WAS bigger originally, but when the 2e guys went to fit it to the maps of the Realms (via The Hordelands boxed set), it was TOO big, so there are notes within that box that tell you to reduce the size of the maps by a 1/3!
I'm not sure if that 'correction' was used on the Trail maps - it was made in reference to the maps that came with the Kara-Tur box. Funny how I just never bothered to check that...
Anyhow, certain regions, thanks to modules, have an over-abundance of lore and locales, while others are completely bare. The areas around Tabot are the most notable, because I had trouble fitting everything onto the world map (whilst the north is nearly completely devoid of settlements). My solution for this is a bit of a compromise - I 'exploded' certain terrain to fill in the empty areas. So while Kara-Tur will still look very much the same, the canon settlements will be slightly more spread-out. I can still say the maps are pretty-much canon because in certain areas I used the original K-T sizes (spreading things out more), and in others the reduced size (thanks to the Hordelands box). Ergo, the maps are a blend of 1e and 2e, much as my others are blends of 2e and 3e.
I kept the Islands pretty close to their original sizes, which makes them appear larger now in comparison to the mainland, but I found that neccessary to keep all the wonderful Japanese-style adventures intact (there were many more for the Japanese-based regions then the mainland/China-style ones). It really makes very little difference on a global scale, and gives Wa and Kozakura a little more 'oomph'.
It was also somewhat neccessary as one looked at the smaller islands - most especially the Island-nations of Bawa and Bertan, which were incredibly tiny to begin with. In fact, I 'exploded' Bawa to be even larger then its original 1e counterpart, just so it would be noticable on the world map!
And yes - all the provinces are marked (although I have left off the borders for now). I'll try to have a WIP up shortly. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Sep 2008 05:27:18 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 01:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Hmmm...
I found a map on the web.
http://fantasymaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/more-miscellaneous-forgotten-realms/shoulung/
The map you found is from the Forgotten Realms Atlas, which was published before Maztica or Zakhara became known entities in the Realms. A pity about that, because I much prefer the 1E/2E geography, for scale as much as anything. Still, the 3E maps are a vast improvement over the 4E map, particularly when handled by cartographers like Markustay and Patrakis (both of whose projects are awesome and greatly appreciated; can't wait to see Anchorome and Katashaka). I have a copy of the Atlas, but it's in storage in another town. I hate moving.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 02:04:22
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| Hmmm. Well regardless, the map at least provided some provinces, but I still need a whole map of the Shou Lung Empire. And judging from Markus's past work, I bet he is gonna blow me away. Plus, me and a majority of my group are really into Asian culture, so... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 05:50:02
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WIP is up of just the Shou Lung region.
Some of the terrain still needs to be completed, and it's missing quite a few settlements yet, and almost all of the roads and interesting locales are missing.
But at least now you guys can see I've been working on it (and I even have the tip of one of the Japan-Wannabes showing).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Sep 2008 06:42:10 |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 06:13:02
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EPIC thus far.
So I assume the real map will include all of Shou Lung? Absolutely love it though...when it's done, PRINT TIME!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 06:49:35
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Thats pretty much all of it - Wai is part of T'u Lung.
Did you mean all of kara-Tur? There is a bit more to the south-west not shown, but I had that on an earlier WIP of Tabot. I also have more done to the north, but that isn't part of Shou Lung either.
Anyhow, when it is complete, I will break it into two pieces, to show the Ama Basin to the North as well. T'u Lung will get a seperate Map, as will the two island Kingdoms & Koryo(together), and finally a 5th one depicting southern K-T (allthough I think I may have to break that into two going right and left, rather then one above the other).
I try to keep all of the maps to a size that is ledgible if printed out on a single standard sheet of 8½ x 11 paper. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Sep 2008 06:50:14 |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 12:59:26
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Hmmm. Such a small empire for the most "powerful nation in the world"...I can change all that in the campaign though 
Well, keep up the good work man, you're doing far better than what I can do |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 16:06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Hmmm. Such a small empire for the most "powerful nation in the world"...
Ah, but the age of the great empires is over. With the exception of the loose Zakharan confederation, it's still the largest kingdom on the main supercontinent. It's rather well populated as well.
The glory days where Shou Lung stretched all the way to Semphar and shared a border with Mulhorand are behind them, and these days the Shou are more concerned with internal affairs and intrigue, but they still rule a land that makes Faerunian giants like Mulhorand, Tethyr or Thay seem small by comparison. The Forgotten Realms just don't have a universal power, and even the strongest empires have had rivals and limits.
Of course, your campaign milage may vary. And empire building is a fun enterprise for PCs. In my current game, the PCs are Mulhorandi, and have been involved in all sorts of adventures, from intrigue at the court of Murghom to venturing into Veldorn. The activist Mulhorand of 3e provides tons of opportunities for adventure in the south beyond grave robbing and fighting the Cult of Set. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 17:18:00
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It is STILL bigger then all of Zakhara, and is way larger then the next known largest canon empire was, Imaskar.
Compare
Purple = Shou Lung at it's current reduced size
Red = The area of Imaskar at its height
Green = the area of the Shoon Imperium at it's height
Orange = the area of the Nethereas Empire at its height
Blue = The Empire of Cormyr, circa 1479 DR
I didn't bother coloring Zakhara, since it's size is pretty evident. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:05:16
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Forget it... 
Somehow, even though I as EXTREMELY careful, I managed to save that colorized file (which was shrunk way-down) as the world map.
My last save was months ago.
I quit. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:12:14
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| My condolences to you. It always sucks to lose that amount of work through a wrong file save. Been there, done that. Maybe in a few months or a few years you will feel the need to start over again. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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Edited by - Hawkins on 18 Sep 2008 19:12:56 |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:36:45
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...WAT
...That sucks. Like, epicly sucks. We were soooo relying on you Mark. Don't give up! Can't you do something? Anything?!!??!!?!/ T.T
...BTW, is all the area in grey Shou Lung or just Kara-Tur? |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:38:03
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Sorry for double post...
nvm, saw color key. Wow, Shou Lung IS big.
But come on man, don't give up. I was relying on ya. ;[ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:50:16
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Okay, nearly all of this week's work was on the WIP I posted yesterday. By pasting it into my last saved World_WIP File from a couple months back, I have almost all the changes I made to Kara-Tur (and the ones in the Hordelands, THANK GOD, I made a lot of modifications since my last map of that region, and my old save was done RIGHT AFTER I finished that). I still lost everything I did this morning (a Bunch of stuff in the lower jungles) and a whatever I had completed in T'u Lung (which wasn't much).
Most of what I have worked on since that last back-up was in the Shining South & Chultan Penninsula, and I have smaller versions of each area completed and saved on my DeviantART Site. At some point I'll remove all the extranneous stuff (like the scales and Compass Roses) and paste them back in as well. What I did lose was whatever I worked on since about the middle of August, up until last weekened (before I went back to Kara-Tur). That inludes parts of the North (Heartlands), and a good chunk of the Moonsea/Bloodstone areas.
Ah well... Losing three weeks of work is still better then four months, and I didn't really get a huge amount done in any of those regions anyway (else, I would have posted completed maps of them).
So, I will continue forward. I lost all my layers in the Shou region by using yesterday's WIP, but in a way, its a good thing (unless I need to make a change). I'm creating a new back-up starting with zero layers, so the map will be easier to work with again (which is why I started making back-ups - the file sizes were becoming unweildy without me merging all the layers).
Going back to Shou now.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Sep 2008 23:10:43 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 19:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
...BTW, is all the area in grey Shou Lung or just Kara-Tur?
Actually, I thought it was Purple. 
Thats JUST Shou-Lung. I good chunk of Real Estate below that is T'u Lung, which USED TO be part of Shou Lung, making it even vaster in the past. Also, the Forgotten Kingdom of Guge was at some point part of Shou-Lung, during the days of Anok-Imaskar and the early period of Shou History, so it also extended further west. There is an entire other area in the SW (the Larang Valleys) that was also part of the empire around the same time period as Guge. That would mean that at one point Shou Lung constituted MOST of Kara-Tur, unlike now, where it makes up about half.
The lower Jungle regions (Malatra) have there own weird little Kingdoms, and I plan to work some of the Mahasarpa Web Enhancement into the region between there and the Larang Valleys (as ancient History, and another 'lost' empire).
I also plan to add in what little geography we have from the oft-forgotten 6th official FR setting - The Living Jungle (Malatra Region). Someone sent me a copy of the LJ Player's Guide yeasterday, that had a map and illustrations, which is way better then the stripped-down one I found for myself some time ago on the web.
I always appreciate any little bits people send me, or locales from novels I haven't read, or whatever corections people note, because it feels more like a community project that way. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Sep 2008 20:15:25 |
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UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2008 : 20:34:52
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| THANK THE GODS! =D |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 00:00:00
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| I think Mark must have the biggest Macintosh in all the world. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 00:43:01
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Nope - I run a Windows IBM Compatible, self-built (and it takes me about 6-7 minutes to fire-up the world map, on a super-fast machine).
What I do have is a 250GB HardDrive that is about 95% full.
I remember when I bought my fist 'big' drive - it was 2GB, and my wife's aunt asked me why I thought I'd ever need so much space.
Now I need a second 250GB unit.
Then again, its almost time for a new machine; this one's nearly three years old. I just hate transferring everything over, though. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 01:02:40
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| Not that I'm an Scott Card fan by any stretch of the imagination, but there is a pretty good line in his Lost Boys, set in the early eighties and featuring a programmer as its protagonist, where one character is making fun of the Commodore 64, asking how anyone could possibly fill up that much memory with meaningful code. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Map of Shou Lung?
