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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 02:13:18
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It is supposed to be a Forgotten Realms -article, and yet according to this article, some of the Genasi worship Tharizdun who is definitely not part of the FR pantheon... *sigh*  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 03:19:07
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well, I guess that may or may not be the case anymore  I can see the 4E link to the elemental Chaos. regardless the article in part indicates
"Worse yet, a few misguided souls even seek out the Elder Elemental Eye, Tharizdun. These genasi are typically among the most evil and chaotic of their race, and some would argue insane, since they seek the means to free Tharizdun and unleash his destructive power upon the world. These misguided genasi think that Tharizdun placed them on the world, and that they were created when the Chained God strained against his restraints long enough to touch the world. They believe that the genasi race is a remnant of his awesome power, and that they were created at the moment he touched the world with the intent that they become his liberators"
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Edited by - scererar on 09 Sep 2008 03:25:55 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 05:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
"Worse yet, a few misguided souls even seek out the Elder Elemental Eye, Tharizdun.
Of all the ill-begotten lore to stay faithful to, I wouldn't have chosen that misidentification, which reduces two interesting but incompatible deities to one. Gary can no longer shrug at such botching of his work. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 08:17:47
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it's not bad
don't know why it has FR logo tough |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 09:43:21
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Quite a bit different from the 3e versions.
It is the first 4e excerpt which could have impressed me with its attention to detail ... if they hadnt added that junk about Tharizdun. I also think the pictures look too much like X-men-comic/computer game graphics (too unrealistic for my style (*1)) and the "human ancestry" cant really be seen anymore in them. But that is just my sense of style and others might prefer a different one.
(*1) Did any designer / artist ever consider the impracticality of having really burning hair (as shown in some of the pictures)? They would torch something every time they lie down to sleep or do they come with asbestos bedsheets? Flaming hair looks "cool", but is completely impractical but details like these always get overlooked. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
Edited by - Pandora on 09 Sep 2008 09:44:14 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 11:33:02
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Oh dear 
@Pandora. No, no. Flaming hair looks kewl! |
Edited by - arry on 09 Sep 2008 11:34:38 |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 11:54:12
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
Oh dear
@Pandora. No, no. Flaming hair looks kewl!
Right, sorry, my mistake.  |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
Edited by - Pandora on 09 Sep 2008 11:54:30 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 16:51:12
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Thanks for the link. By the way, this actually seems to be a core article (at first glance), not explicitly an FR article.
EDIT: OK, I see the FR logo. That said, the text on the download page says it's a setting-neutral article, and it reads that way too (it mentions Kord, who is a "core" deity, not an FR deity). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Sep 2008 17:16:04 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 20:09:46
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| And now, just like 4e tieflings, 4e genasi all share a monolithic group of traits and a monolithic physical appearance. What the heck... |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 21:25:00
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speaking of tieflings I read the new Kobold Quarterly today, it has an article on tieflings by Zeb Cook, might interest you ...
they had flaming hair before, maybe it's like the burning bush |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 22:02:08
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| Yes, I prefer my subraces aplenty that I have in 3.5. I also found it intriguing that they dived air genasi into two new types: stormsoul genasi and windsoul genasi. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 22:30:46
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Yes, I prefer my subraces aplenty that I have in 3.5. I also found it intriguing that they dived air genasi into two new types: stormsoul genasi and windsoul genasi.
Are the latter flatulent?  |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 04:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
And now, just like 4e tieflings, 4e genasi all share a monolithic group of traits and a monolithic physical appearance. What the heck...
Seconded. I always thought both groups were unique because their individuals were; no two air genasi would look alike, nor would two aasimar, and definitely not two tieflings.
And in 4th Edition, they're identical, independent, true-breeding races.  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 05:03:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
And now, just like 4e tieflings, 4e genasi all share a monolithic group of traits and a monolithic physical appearance. What the heck...
Seconded. I always thought both groups were unique because their individuals were; no two air genasi would look alike, nor would two aasimar, and definitely not two tieflings.
And in 4th Edition, they're identical, independent, true-breeding races.
they are identical in the aspect that they have 2 arms, 2 legs, and one head.
in part
"Genasi resemble humans in many ways, but they have strong elemental features tied to their manifestation. Every genasi has a series of elemental lines etched into the skin from birth, and these lines glow with a color associated with the element they manifest. These energy lines, called szuldar in primordial, are unique to each genasi."
Still, very different from their 3E version. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 08:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
And now, just like 4e tieflings, 4e genasi all share a monolithic group of traits and a monolithic physical appearance. What the heck...
Seconded. I always thought both groups were unique because their individuals were; no two air genasi would look alike, nor would two aasimar, and definitely not two tieflings.
And in 4th Edition, they're identical, independent, true-breeding races.
they are identical in the aspect that they have 2 arms, 2 legs, and one head.
They are identical in the "elemental lines" too and that makes them "look identical" in the same way our skin color makes us look as belonging to one race or the other. Before they became a race you could customize that look, now you have fixed characteristics in their appearance that have to be there.
That "monolithic appearance" is really making them look ugly and like comic creatures. Would an elemental creature need features like "stuff that looks like hair"? Not really, so the appearance doesnt really make sense. Nature doesnt have "excess", if a creature type does not need an appendage (like the tail which apes had but we dont have anymore) it looses it. So there has to be a reason why it is there, because the "elemental parent" certainly didnt have hair. You could argue that these genasi are simply "humans transformed into elements", but that is a bit too simple for me like simply painting the outer appearance differently and not coming up with something truly new. Transformation doesnt seem to fit with the "being born" process, which a true race needs. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 15:33:11
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They are, however, deemed 'kewl' which is the most important of all characteristics. 
Meaning, relevance and logic are now passe, kewlness is all! |
Edited by - arry on 10 Sep 2008 15:35:10 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 23:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Thanks for the link. By the way, this actually seems to be a core article (at first glance), not explicitly an FR article.
EDIT: OK, I see the FR logo. That said, the text on the download page says it's a setting-neutral article, and it reads that way too (it mentions Kord, who is a "core" deity, not an FR deity).
It appears that WoTC is catering to the core fans rather than FR fans, and in retrospect this puts the "need" to remove the "burden" of history and details from FR in a new light...  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 00:04:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
It appears that WoTC is catering to the core fans rather than FR fans, and in retrospect this puts the "need" to remove the "burden" of history and details from FR in a new light...
If it's any consolation, I assure you that Ecology of the Sharn will be simply brimming with esoteric Realmslore; which will hold little or no interest for core fans.  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 00:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
It appears that WoTC is catering to the core fans rather than FR fans, and in retrospect this puts the "need" to remove the "burden" of history and details from FR in a new light...
If it's any consolation, I assure you that Ecology of the Sharn will be simply brimming with esoteric Realmslore; which will hold little or no interest for core fans.
And I approve and can't wait to see what you come up with. :)
I just hope it stays as you wrote it and doesn't end up retouched so to speak by your editors. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 00:28:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
It appears that WoTC is catering to the core fans rather than FR fans, and in retrospect this puts the "need" to remove the "burden" of history and details from FR in a new light...
If it's any consolation, I assure you that Ecology of the Sharn will be simply brimming with esoteric Realmslore; which will hold little or no interest for core fans.
And I approve and can't wait to see what you come up with. :)
I just hope it stays as you wrote it and doesn't end up retouched so to speak by your editors.
I'm fairly convinced that Brian will be surprised to find out that in the published article, the Sharn are actually spawn of... yes, you guessed it... THARIZDUN!    |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 03:29:27
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quote:
now you have fixed characteristics in their appearance that have to be there.
Who says? last time I checked this was all make pretend ohh, and you forgot to include my cheesy face in the last "quote" you chose from my post. |
Edited by - scererar on 11 Sep 2008 03:31:21 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 03:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
It appears that WoTC is catering to the core fans rather than FR fans, and in retrospect this puts the "need" to remove the "burden" of history and details from FR in a new light...
If it's any consolation, I assure you that Ecology of the Sharn will be simply brimming with esoteric Realmslore; which will hold little or no interest for core fans.
Huzzah!!!!
Brian to the rescue again! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 21:14:12
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Hi fellow scribes,
re-reading this article in order to reference data for the 4E index project, I wondered about two things :
- I reread in this article that "a brave band of human warriors, their names and identities long lost in the annals of time, who traveled to the Elemental Chaos to steal the primordials’ power" and "Their names have become common names in genasi society".
Did their names "canonly" established or not ?
- In the knowledge of the genasi sidebar, deities as Pelor, Moradin, Kord and Melora are quoted. I've no problems with the first three ones but who is Melora in the Realms ?
Thanks a lot |
"Today is a good day to smile",
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I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 21:23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
- In the knowledge of the genasi sidebar, deities as Pelor, Moradin, Kord and Melora are quoted. I've no problems with the first three ones but who is Melora in the Realms ?
Thanks a lot
Not sure who Melora is.... He/she sounds like a deity created for 4e.... the name doesn't sounds familiar in any of the old material. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 22:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not sure who Melora is.... He/she sounds like a deity created for 4e.... the name doesn't sounds familiar in any of the old material.
Hi Kuje, nice to read you again. It's a long time !
There is no mention of Melora in the 4E sourcebooks. That's why I'm surprised to read about him/her in this 4E article.
Hmm.. odd. Are you sure that it's a FR article then? Maybe he/she's a deity from the core material? I dunno....
Edit: Yea, guess it is a FR article. So, I have no clue. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 25 May 2009 22:57:22 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 01:47:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Hi fellow scribes,
re-reading this article in order to reference data for the 4E index project, I wondered about two things :
- I reread in this article that "a brave band of human warriors, their names and identities long lost in the annals of time, who traveled to the Elemental Chaos to steal the primordials’ power" and "Their names have become common names in genasi society".
Did their names "canonly" established or not ?
- In the knowledge of the genasi sidebar, deities as Pelor, Moradin, Kord and Melora are quoted. I've no problems with the first three ones but who is Melora in the Realms ?
Thanks a lot
Melora is a goddess of the wilds and oceans. She's referenced in the 4e PHB and DMG.
I think she's a new 4e deity, as I've not seen her mentioned in any of the previous deity-related D&D material. And given that Kord, Pelor, and Moradin are also mentioned alongside with Melora in that sidebar, I'd say the information there, relates to the core D&D pantheon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 26 May 2009 01:49:23 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 16:36:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
EDIT : I've another question.
The English language uses the she-gender to speak about a genasi ?
Even if a genasi is a male ?
There are very few things in English, other than creatures, that are assumed to have a gender. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is ships, which are usually female.
I'm not sure what the exact verbiage is that's throwing you... But WotC, in an attempt to appear gender-neutral, occasionally chooses to describe a female critter rather than a male critter. While I applaud the idea of avoiding the male-centric viewpoint, the way they do it seems clumsy, to me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Topic |
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ecology of the Genasi
, I did not understand that :