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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 13:37:53
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Now after some time debating weather or not it is ever likly to take out the high powered NPC of fearūn I was wondering if anyone could shed som light on the wards, spells and special powers of Larloch, Manshoon, Zsazz Tam, The Chosen Etc. A lot of people have been stating that due to their long lives they have created spells and contingency effects that makes them virtually impossible to kill, which I find most possible, but having researched what I could about them Im ashamed to say, that I have found nothing. Is it just up to the DM to create these powerful spells and effects or have these already been difined? I mean what have the High Telamond done to ensure that he will not fall to an upstart mage... like myself?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3245 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 13:54:08
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| I can't remember the exact quote (Sage?) from Ed, but I believe it comes down to, like Dragons (used to be, at least) in Shadowrun, the high powered NPCs of the Realms are supposed to do whatever the DM feels they can do and the PCs can't hurt them unless he wants them to. Yes, they have stats, but when playing them, they should have whatever spells/abilities ready to counter whatever the PCs can throw at them. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 15:48:50
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As far as I know, there is no official source that details each and every ability of the NPCs you listed. As a DM with an eye for the rules, I've spent many a commute to work thinking about what such and such NPC would be (be able to) do to prepare him-, her-, or itself. One can come up with some pretty wild combinations.
The first thing right off the bat would be this: even what little is written would be worthless to you, as a player. I've had the occasional player argue that, in game, such-and-such NPC has a trick up their sleeve that the books did not mention, or even expressly rule that the NPC does not have. My usual response is along the lines of "well, you should not trust everything you read. You're not in FR, you're in FR, version Thauramarth, where many, many things can happen." I have never really been in favor of the idea that NPCs should only have access to the same abilities as the PCs. I try to stick to the rules, though, and if I make up new powers that a PC could have access to, a PC could get them, if the right conditions were met.
If I were your DM, I'd make your character go through the motions of the research of the NPC's defenses. Let's pick Szass Tam as an example. As a mage, you could use magic to try and find out as much as possible about the old boy. You could use spies. As a DM, I'd then make a judgement about how your character (or his spies) has gone about the snooping and spying, taking into account the NPC's ability. In the case of Szass, I would say that it would be very, very hard to find something out about him by using standard magic. He would probably have magic to protect him from scrying and divination. What's more, he may have magic that could alert him to attempts to scry him and, depending on your character's own defenses, he may even gain information on you. Of course, depending on your character's abilities, you may be able to block such scrying attempts yourself. Even that may be an indication to old Szass, as he would probably have an idea about the power level of someone who is able to block his counterscrying measures, and, based on that, he may be able to narrow down the list of potential scryers to a limited number. In the other threads, you mentioned that your character was a 22nd-level wizard, I believe. Szass Tam would probably have his agents network keep tabs on any noteworthy individuals, and could instruct them to try and find out what such-and-such (insert list of NPCs who are currently on his shortlist of suspects) are up to. This may allow him to identify your character (or at least reduce the short list even more).
Of course, Old Szass may be even more devious and feed you false information, and false replies to the questions you're asking... On that note, I have had NPCs use a variety of the "canary trap" when they were unable to identify snoopers directly, i.e., plant some clues leading to false information ("Szass is vulnerable to holy water drawn from the fony of the abandoned shrineof Myrkul in the eastern slums of Surthay"), and then see who shows up to follow up on the false information. And react accordingly.
Designing an NPC's defenses and plans, especially high-level, vastly intelligent ones may lead a DM into some difficulty, i.e., how do you play a supra-genius when (like me) you're all but supra-genius? On that point, I tend to follow an advice whose origin I have forgotten (I believe it was listed in a Ravenloft supplement, or a Ravenloft article in Dragon Mag sometime during the nineties). Opponents of a certain intelligence and/or experience could change actions, or could substitute a spell or an action the DM has prepared for another that is better suited to fight the PCs, the rationale being that the opponent had prepared that power all the while, because his or her superior intelligence had allowed him or her to predict some of the PCs' actions. Within the scope of that NPC's powers and normal behavior (no evil mage suddenly being able to wield a holy sword to fight a couple of devils that the PCs had dumped on him, for instance).
The possibilities are endless, basically, especially for wizards, but even high-level non-spellcasters could be hard to destroy (a high-level fighter opponent in one of my campaigns always made sure that a wizard loyal to him had recent tissue available to grow a clone as soon as he was dead).
I love debating possible tactics and contingency plans of various NPCs, but I think that there's precious little that you can learn on these boards and in gaming supplements, stories, and novels, that would benefit your character in your DM's actual game, because regardless of what is written, if your DM comes up with alternatives, then you're out of luck.
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 06:15:36
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As far as the actual 3E/3.5 rules are concerned, these characters are difficult to slay in-game for many of the same reasons other BBEG spellcasters, liches, etc are sometimes difficult to overcome...
Szass Tam and Larloch are difficult to kill because they are Liches and thus you need to destroy their phylactery in order to keep them from being magically restored to unlife 1d10 day later. Magically locating an object that you have never seen nor touched before is difficult/impossible enough on its own, and is made more difficult by the fact that powerful wizards could hide such an item anywhere and protect it from divination effects through the use of sequester spells. In addition, Larloch uses a contingency spell to teleport himself to chambers that rapidly heal undead creatures if he ever loses more than half his hitpoints. Meanwhile Szass Tam always carries a ring of three wishes and a staff of power, which enables him to either escape or reverse the course of a battle gone awry with an uttering, or simply destroy his adversaries with a last restort retributive strike knowing full well that he will survive the blast so long as his phylactery is not discovered.
Manshoon is difficult to slay permanently because of his use of stasis clone spells, and because one of his clones is a vampire whose undead vulnerabilities are offset by magic items and spells.
Elminster, Storm Silverhand, the Simbul and other Chosen of Mystra are difficult to slay because of their use of multiple-trigger contingency spells like Elminster's evasion, their access to wish spells or items that duplicate such magic, the intervention of their numerous allies (including each other, Harper agents, apprentices, Mystra etc), and all the other resources that centuries old divine-touched archmages can call upon. In addition, their ability scores, varied multiclassing, powers granted by their Chosen template, and other special abilities listed in their statistics give them an array of defensive qualities that make them far more difficult to slay than the average epic archmage. Elminster for example has 369 hitpoints, AC 31, +29/+25/+29 saving throws, evasion, initiative +10, immunity to numerous conditions and spells...and that is before he even casts any spells to augment or ward himself. Elminster can absorb about as much physical punishment as a typical 30th level NPC Barbarian (see ELH appendix), while still possessing the full retinue of powers of a 29th level wizard. Most 35th NPC level wizards cannot claim the same survivability factor.
Telamont Tanthul is difficult to kill by an "upstart mage" by virtue of the fact that he almost never leaves his floating city, the defenses of which are quite formidable. In addition he has 35 class levels, a fairly powerful template, and is the principle authority figure in a Netherese enclave, and thus has access to a vast repository of magic items and spells. |
Edited by - The Simbul on 08 Sep 2008 06:17:10 |
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Personal spells of high powered NPC of the Realms
