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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 20:16:44
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I'm not sure if it's the god, The individual, or the writers but when it comes to the realms not all clerics are created equal.
For instance the best priest Mithrall Hall had to offer couldnt return site to Bruenors eye and could barely keep him alive in a coma. But Eilistraee's faithful AO rest her soul resurrect her blade singers from the grave like the masked lady is greater instead of lesser even thou I don't understand why she wasn't changed to intermediate after she absorbed her brother but that's neither here nor there.
Then we have denirs chosen our friend MR. Bonaduce that can reverse a dragons age destroy balors on a whim and transfer injury's to him self but can resurrect a broken dwarf.
Last but not least in The Gossamer Plain a cleric of Ilmater regrows a woman's thumbs from scratch full feeling in all and she is ready to declare a thumb war in no time.
I guess what I'm asking is A. who sets the standard for the strength of Cleric spells?
B. Does the gods level matter?
C. Does Pantheon make a difference?
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 20:30:46
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Mainly what you're noticing is Bob Salvatore's rather eccentric approach to magic. Bless his cotton socks, but fidelity to Realmslore or game rules has never been his first concern.
A. Ed Greenwood, drawing on the work of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. The Realms draws its priestly magic very much from D&D. It adds complications, such as spells unique to specific priesthoods or religious books, and cultural factors such as those limiting reurrection, but the assumed efficacy of clerical Power is pretty much consistent between most sourcebook material, most fiction, and the D&D rules.
B. Maybe in some circumstances for demigods. The distinction between lesser, intermediate and greater powers is largely invisible to mortals and is far more a matter of sagely and theological quibbling than the practical effect of clerical prayers. (The Realms doesn't use the optional 2nd edition rule limiting lesser gods to granting 6th-level spells.)
C. In terms of overall power per given priest or spell level, not really. In other terms, yes. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 Sep 2008 20:32:00 |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2008 : 01:47:29
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Even more than wizards, priests in FR have a shoddy track record for consistent presentation, in part because they've been featured far less than arcane casters. This has been less of a problem in recent series--the Haunted Lands trilogy, for example, or the Erevis Cale books, or more obviously the Priests series, all feature more-or-less standard D&D clerics, but traditionally, clerics have been suspiciously absent or ineffectual. In part this is understandable because clerics are annoying from a narrative perspective--they can greatly reduce the impact of life-threatening injuries, diseases, poisons, etc., or death. Some authors seem willing to deal with their presence and the ramifications of their abilities--the Lady Penitent trilogy, despite its egregious faults ending-wise, faces this head-on--but many others, I think, would rather keep them on the sidelines.
Complicating the issue is the existence of a fair number of rule-breaking clerics, such as Cadderly or other Chosen, who may or may not stick to anything resembling rules or structure as players and DMs understand them. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2008 : 15:10:31
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| Thank you for your answers you both explained a lot. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 09:52:36
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As the other scribes have already said, don't trust an author to tell you a story based on the rules. Most stories are about unique individuals, although with novels set in such a setting as FR it would be nice if, from time to time, characters acted within the confines of FR logic.
A. who sets the standard for the strength of Cleric spells?
The cleric, him or herself. If their faith is strong and their experience extensive they should be able to do any number of things. Of course, their deity may withhold their power from their cleric, since clerics channel their deity's power. Similarly, the deity may let the cleric do some things that are normally beyond their ability, which I guess is what most authors allow.
B. Does the gods level matter?
All gods, regardless of strength, could, and probably do, have very high level clerics.
C. Does Pantheon make a difference?
No, it shouldn't. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Yuen
Acolyte
Austria
22 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 14:29:47
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Many authors tend to make cure/healing spells far less effective to raise the tension. I think it's a bit easier that way because you don't need to find a reason for the heroes NOT to hire an army of clerics to spam their heals like in an mmorpg.
As a king of a wealthy dwarven nation Bruenor could easily afford a "Heal" spell, but in Salvatore's realms such magic seems to extremely rare. That, or there just aren't many high level clerics around. But then again you don't see Drizzt casting Ranger spells either
Apart from that, even the weakest of all gods should be able to grant lvl 9 spells to a cleric of high enough level. |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 16:06:27
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| It was very interesting, realistic, and enjoyable reading the twilight giant series by troy denning. I say that as far as clerical magic goes because the princess is a priestess of a giant goddess. It was different from every other type of healing magic I had ever seen it was brutal and forceful and left you scared lol. It was the first time I had ever seen someone almost die from healing or a god leaving there calling card (so to speak) on a person afterwards. Also he explains that because the princess is a low level priestess she only has two healing spells a day. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 18:21:36
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| Not all clerics are of the same level. Not all clerics are of high enough level to cast resurrection or Heal. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 19:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Not all clerics are of the same level. Not all clerics are of high enough level to cast resurrection or Heal.
Right that I understand well enough it was just the R.A thing throwing me off. I had trouble believing I high priest of Moradin couldn't preform a healing spell as powerful as paladin of Eilistraee. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 22:24:48
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| Yeah again back to not using the rules as much though. It's hard to tell a story and feel something when someone dies when resurrection is easily available. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 22:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Not all clerics are of the same level. Not all clerics are of high enough level to cast resurrection or Heal.
Right that I understand well enough it was just the R.A thing throwing me off. I had trouble believing I high priest of Moradin couldn't preform a healing spell as powerful as paladin of Eilistraee.
You also have to take the Gods potrtfolio into account. A cleric of Talos should honestly suc k at healing while conversely a cleric Lathander or Eilistaee should do well at this and turning undead. I see dwarven gods as rather hard and rugged. They expect their peeps to tough it out. So instead of boosting their clerics healing they probably have more stuff geared towards making a Dwarf tougher or a better fighter..I would expect the same from Orcish Gods. |
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Clerical Question
