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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
 Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:00:02
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Lady Penitent trilogy, in which the drow pantheon gets whittled down to just Lolth.
Except for Ghaunadaur who then in 4e suddenly transforms miraculously into a higher god  and is not worshipped by drow anymore... 
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Don't forget that he's also '... a stronger and more ancient power than Lolth suspected.' IOW, Cthulhu-esque. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:48:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Lady Penitent trilogy, in which the drow pantheon gets whittled down to just Lolth.
Except for Ghaunadaur who then in 4e suddenly transforms miraculously into a higher god and is not worshipped by drow anymore...
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Don't forget that he's also '... a stronger and more ancient power than Lolth suspected.' IOW, Cthulhu-esque.
Actually, he's had the Cthulhu-esque elements all along. Page 18 of Demihuman Deities:
quote:
Ghaunadaur (GONE-ah-door) is a fell deity that has plagued the darkest reaches of the Realms since the dawn of time. That Which Lurks appears as an amorphous, dark purple blob with many tentacles. It is venerated by the largest slimes, oozes, slugs, and other crawling things -- some of which are said to possess intelligence, albeit alien.
And a lot of his write-up in that book echoes -- and in some cases repeats -- what Ed wrote about him in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark (the only true book of that title!).
It's just that absent the 3E "aberrations" and the Far Realm, there was nothing else overly Cthulhu-esque (save for the illithids) in the game to make one think of that comparison. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 00:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, he's had the Cthulhu-esque elements all along. Page 18 of Demihuman Deities:
quote:
Ghaunadaur (GONE-ah-door) is a fell deity that has plagued the darkest reaches of the Realms since the dawn of time. That Which Lurks appears as an amorphous, dark purple blob with many tentacles. It is venerated by the largest slimes, oozes, slugs, and other crawling things -- some of which are said to possess intelligence, albeit alien.
And a lot of his write-up in that book echoes -- and in some cases repeats -- what Ed wrote about him in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark (the only true book of that title!).
It's just that absent the 3E "aberrations" and the Far Realm, there was nothing else overly Cthulhu-esque (save for the illithids) in the game to make one think of that comparison.
Don't forget Ghaunadaur's "Elder Elemental God" Cthulhu-traits either.
Some examples...
From Demihuman Deities:- "Although Ghaunadaur is a distinct entity unrelated to the tanar'ri lord Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, or the otherwise unnamed Elder Elemental God neither of the latter two powers is active in the Realms, and Ghaunadaur has assumed both of their aspects within the crystal sphere of Realmspace."
Read the claim about the Elder Elemental God in light of the fact that much of Ghaunadaur's writeup is taken directly from descriptions of the EEG, which is itself distinct from Juiblex.
Juiblex is a Demon Lord in the D&D core rules. In the Realms, he had some worshipers in 2e's Thay IIRC. When Demihuman Deities, and the other god books, were being worked on there was some desire to tidy up some of the gods, thus Juiblex became an aspect of Ghaunadaur in the Realms. Similar things happened to the 2e god of liches in Monster Mythology becoming an aspect of Velsharoon and Sseth garnering many different aspects.
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zealot
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 17:00:16
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| Thanks all, now it is really just a trilogy and not one of those "ha ha ha you bought the first book, now buy the other 12" novel sets right? |
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 17:21:17
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| I haven't read it, but I've heard quite a bit about it, and it's one of two series I'm completely avoiding. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 17:58:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zealot
Thanks all, now it is really just a trilogy and not one of those "ha ha ha you bought the first book, now buy the other 12" novel sets right?
Three books: Sacrifice of the Widow, Storm of the Dead, Ascendancy of the Last
I've been told that despite the name, there's not really much of Halisstra Melarn in these books. This would be a plus for me if I read them; I didn't like the way that character turned out in the later books of the WotSQ series (one of the many reasons I didn't like that series: an interesting character in one book is an annoying/unlikable character in the next).
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 06:29:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, so about the Hidden City of Hope... 
Are you teasing me my dear sage? I started reading black staff again. The only things I care about 4e novel wise are the twins, The hidden city of hope and the new brown skinned elves. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2009 : 04:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, so about the Hidden City of Hope...
Are you teasing me my dear sage? I started reading black staff again. The only things I care about 4e novel wise are the twins, The hidden city of hope and the new brown skinned elves.
I am still in the middle of Blackstaff and haven't gotten to that part yet, but are those the converted ex-drow from the end of Lady Penitent series?
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2009 : 19:22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
I am still in the middle of Blackstaff and haven't gotten to that part yet, but are those the converted ex-drow from the end of Lady Penitent series?
They couldn't be, because the events in Blackstaff predate those in the LP series. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 00:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, so about the Hidden City of Hope...
Are you teasing me my dear sage? I started reading black staff again. The only things I care about 4e novel wise are the twins, The hidden city of hope and the new brown skinned elves.
I am still in the middle of Blackstaff and haven't gotten to that part yet, but are those the converted ex-drow from the end of Lady Penitent series?
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No. These elves predate the Descent of the Drow. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 02:22:22
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Yuppers... they were Miyeritar Dark Elves, not Ilythiir Dark Elves.
Although the vingette in GHotR makes it seem that all other Faerūnian Dark Elves were originally of the Ilythiir clan, which fragmented into several lesser clans over time.
I suppose that was added to end the arguments about whether the Illythiir were justified in seeking revenge for the Dark Disaster.
As far as I remember, no Dark Elves 'came back' when Rhymanthiin was created (which was a huge let-down for me). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2009 15:09:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 03:24:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As far as I remember, no Dark Elves 'came back' when Rhymanthiin was created (which was a huge let-down for me).
I'm not recalling it, either -- but their reasoning was sound. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 15:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As far as I remember, no Dark Elves 'came back' when Rhymanthiin was created (which was a huge let-down for me).
Not at the time of the ritual, no. But since then many "redeemed" dark elves have settled in Rhymanthiin. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 23:04:29
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| but what are their racial stats??? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2009 : 16:46:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
but what are their racial stats???
Redeemed dark elves are not a race unto themselves. They are simply green elves. So if you're looking for stats just use those found in the Player's Handbook. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 03:26:40
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I'm looking for racial stats for green elves and I'm coming up with nada. Are they wood elves or wild elves.
Ok turns out there wild elves. |
Edited by - Stout Heart on 30 Aug 2009 03:28:53 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 04:38:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Since Elves claim to be the first to do everything and be everywhere, that gives them a rather ubiquitous excuse to lay claim to anything they want.
Add to that that they stole the Nether Scrolls because they felt humans were undeserving of that sort of power, and you begin to realize just what 'right bastards' the Elves really are. 
Absolutely... the elves were bastards for stealing the Nether Scrolls, and they were right to do so as well.
I'm only responding to this now because I was looking for info on Rhymanthiin, and this post in particular caught my eye, largely for the misanthropic punnery potential it had. The simple fact is, and we should know this from RL (which will feature no further in this post), that if there's a way to make something bad happen, humans will find it. In this respect, I consider Toril's elves to be far too human in their past (the Sundering, the Crown Wars, the Dark Disaster, the banishment of the drow, the xenophobia that undermined Myth Drannor before the Army of Darkness arrived, the Eldreth Veluuthra, and likely other examples that I'm missing). They've only really started acting like I expect from elves in the last few years, with the ending of the Retreat, Seiveril's Crusade, and the return of the Tree of Souls.
Anyway, that's all... this is the closest thing to a rant that I want to engage in right now, because rants serve no purpose (and, as the dolphin goddess Trishina can tell you, they serve no porpoise either).  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 06:51:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart:
The only things I care about 4e novel wise are the twins, The hidden city of hope and the new brown skinned elves.
Well, we learn a bit about Krehlan in Blackstaff Tower. And there's a glimpse of the tower. But that's about it.
And regarding Ghaunadaur, just as a last comment, he also appears in Evermeet, where I felt there were quite a bit of hints about him being ancient and powerful. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 06:56:39
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So, 'dark elves' look like wild elves, then? I thought that they always had that dark skin. Didn't they have the black skin in Evermeet? Or has 4E changed some of this and I missed it?  |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 16:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
So, 'dark elves' look like wild elves, then? I thought that they always had that dark skin. Didn't they have the black skin in Evermeet? Or has 4E changed some of this and I missed it?
I was under the impression that the decent predated the founding of evermeet. You know when toril was mostly populated by dwarves, elves and dragons before humans started breeding like orcs. I found two types of green elves,
* Green Elf (eladrin), the ancestors of the elven races.
* Green Elf, the common name for wild elves.
But since there was no information or stats on the former I assumed they were the same as the latter. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 18:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
So, 'dark elves' look like wild elves, then? I thought that they always had that dark skin. Didn't they have the black skin in Evermeet? Or has 4E changed some of this and I missed it?
I was under the impression that the decent predated the founding of evermeet. You know when toril was mostly populated by dwarves, elves and dragons before humans started breeding like orcs. I found two types of green elves,
* Green Elf (eladrin), the ancestors of the elven races.
* Green Elf, the common name for wild elves.
But since there was no information or stats on the former I assumed they were the same as the latter.
He refers to the novel Evermeet, which did indeed feature pre-Descent Illithyri. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 05:15:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart:
The only things I care about 4e novel wise are the twins, The hidden city of hope and the new brown skinned elves.
Well, we learn a bit about Krehlan in Blackstaff Tower. And there's a glimpse of the tower. But that's about it.
And the other twin is still uNDA wraps? Seems rather strange, if you ask me... although, Krehlan was dead already when the 4E canon timeline started, so I guess it's not that strange... but given the 4E Realms publication schedule (DDi only at this point, with a possible one book a year given the recent GenCon announcement, and DDi now has to be shared with Eberron and (soon) Dark Sun, as well as core rules stuff), that's not a lot of opportunities for lore release outside of novels... which is probably where the character will be introduced anyway... the only question is, when? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 09:22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Sorry... this went on way longer then I intended, but I'd just like to end this with a quote of Ed in his notes in the Annotated Elminster, when an editor asked him to include more 'monsters' in the Myth Drannor novel -
"But Elves ARE Monsters".
PS - BTW, this WAS the short version.
This is classic. I must get that book now. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Hidden City of Hope
