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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 23:23:18
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Im Trying to get a feel of weather or nbot the campaing we are running are to high powered or not. Im wondering what kind of Magic gear do you alow in your campaign. +3, +5, +10? We are running an epic campaign but stil I somtimes feel we are getting to the point where it is to much. I mean, My char. just killed Manshoon, and is now going after Szass Tam. And after that the "Nether Scrolls"
Could someone give a short discription of what level of power you rund in your home campaing
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 01:05:37
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If you're having fun, you're doing it right.
I've run games at several different power levels, ranging from farm boys picking up weapons from fallen militiamen and killing their first orcs in a haze of terror to a group of powerful nobles, magicians and high priests opening a series of massive gates into Menzoberranzan and assaulting the city with their armies.
I've had fun with them all. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 01:43:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
If you're having fun, you're doing it right.
Yes, in the long term. If you kill Manshoon, go after Szass Tam and find the Nether Scrolls in the same tenday, you're liable to feel bored and bloated afterwards. In the Realms as conceived and mainly published, these kind of aims take years of manoeuvring to achieve; all-out confrontations are rare because people who risk them tend not to survive to high level (Manshoon is as apparently careless as he is because of his stasis clone); and commonly used contingency magics make permanently destroying folk of power rather non-trivial. And even 'epic'-level characters tend to think locally, not in the global 'tourist highlights' sense you're conveying. This is a separate question from how high-powered the campaign is (and of course high-level campaigns need not be powergaming). There's no objective standard either way as to how campaigns 'should' be run, but it's worth being aware of how you're branching from how the baseline setting works, and of the chance of a hollow or gorged or blasé feeling if you achieve too much, too soon.
Personally, in D&D I prefer to develop a character from 1st level over years rather than skip to high level without knowing who he is or how to use his abilities in play.
How do the other players feel? |
Edited by - Faraer on 01 Sep 2008 01:47:28 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 14:05:41
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The cool thing about our epic campaing is, that we started in 2002 with these characters as level 1, and have now reached above lvl 20. And ingame play have been going on for 19 years. So it not like im doing a lot in a tenday. Its more... are the goals I have set my self to much. My character is based on his extreme love and care for the weave and mystra and wants to gain phenominal cosmic power to better serve her and protect her; thats his thing. but perhaps when a Manshoon goes down in 8 or 10 rounds without me being barthered about his pathetic attempt to kill me... perhaps it has gone to fare?? I will say this thou, I still find it very fun to play, and so du the rest of us!
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 19:09:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
but perhaps when a Manshoon goes down in 8 or 10 rounds without me being barthered about his pathetic attempt to kill me... perhaps it has gone to fare?? I will say this thou, I still find it very fun to play, and so du the rest of us!
If everyone is having fun (this includes the DM, by the way), then you're doing it right. It doesn't matter if any of us would do it in a simular fashion or not.
It's a game, and the purpose of a game is recreation and enjoyment. As long as that happens, very little else matters. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 21:38:48
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Just have fun!!!
I and my group like to play low level campaign! |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 23:19:00
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After playing for thirty yuears, I finally allowed the PCs to reach level 2.
I kid! I kid!
I'm not that bad... really...
But yeah, my games tend to top-out around level 12 or so. I think the lower levels aren't much fun (for the players), and the higher levels are just too hard for the DM to come up with a decent challenge.
case in point - you handed Manshoon his hiney.
As a DM, I wouldn't even know where to begin throwing stuff at a party that powerful, and still keep it entertaining.
But if your DM can do so, more power to him.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Sep 2008 23:21:08 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 00:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But yeah, my games tend to top-out around level 12 or so. I think the lower levels aren't much fun (for the players), and the higher levels are just too hard for the DM to come up with a decent challenge...
As a DM, I wouldn't even know where to begin throwing stuff at a party that powerful, and still keep it entertaining.
But if your DM can do so, more power to him.
Hey, you should check out the Fourth Edition rules. Entertaining, but challenging, play across all levels is built in. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Lord Lysander
Acolyte
Greece
25 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 00:05:21
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Well I always start my players' characters at level 1. I really think that this way they have the chance to know each other better. During the first levels they NEED each other to survive. And this is what i excpect... This makes their characters' relations, well, more humanlike.
As far as what level they reach, at my first long-time campaign (a 1.5 years campaign until we stopped it) the characters have reached 8th level.
My second great campaign lasted only for a year and 2 months and my characters have reached 4th level. Then they tried to forcefully enter a mansion at the central square of Zazesspur, which by the way was full of zombies. (And yes, they died...) (God knows how they decided that... Six years of continuous D&D and they did this STUPID thing... Never excpected that from some really experienced RP players)
As far as the magic gear is concerned, I usually allow then to find magic Items costing up to 1/3 of the total wealth given by DM's Guide for each level.
But this can be changed... |
-Beware...
-Why?
-The storm gets closer...
-So?
-So beware... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 04:32:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Im Trying to get a feel of weather or nbot the campaing we are running are to high powered or not. Im wondering what kind of Magic gear do you alow in your campaign. +3, +5, +10? We are running an epic campaign but stil I somtimes feel we are getting to the point where it is to much. I mean, My char. just killed Manshoon, and is now going after Szass Tam. And after that the "Nether Scrolls"
Could someone give a short discription of what level of power you rund in your home campaing
In my opinion, when high-level characters like Manshoon, who in the fiction is widely considered to be very dangerous, are considered to be easy kills, then you are power-gaming. It is also my opinion that most DMs who allow such things are not playing the opposition to its full potential.
But that's my opinion. As has been so often seen, particularly of late, not everyone agrees with me on any given topic. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 05:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In my opinion, when high-level characters like Manshoon, who in the fiction is widely considered to be very dangerous, are considered to be easy kills, then you are power-gaming. It is also my opinion that most DMs who allow such things are not playing the opposition to its full potential.
I think PCs should be able to fight and win agaisn't some famous NPCs, that's one of the biggest advantage of an established setting (players getting all excited about meeting/fighting NPCs they know from novels, etc.)
The key is to introduce those NPCs at the level where they are a good fight (in 4E terms, I would say an hard encounter), not too easy and certainly not too hard (Ah Ah, you'll get killed by the unkillable Larloch!). If that means to change the established level of a NPC, I would do it except it would ruins the experience of the players (What ?, Halaster is a good fight for 5th level PCs !?)
BTW, I hate the expression "power-gaming" except mayve when used to describe renowed broken combos (not Pun-Pun/Cheater of Mystra, that's just not gaming anymore). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 02 Sep 2008 05:43:48 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 05:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In my opinion, when high-level characters like Manshoon, who in the fiction is widely considered to be very dangerous, are considered to be easy kills, then you are power-gaming. It is also my opinion that most DMs who allow such things are not playing the opposition to its full potential.
I think PCs should be able to fight and win agaisn't some famous NPCs, that's one of the biggest advantage of an established setting (players getting all excited about meeting/fighting NPCs they know from novels, etc.)
The key is to introduce those NPCs at the level where they are a good fight (in 4E terms, I would say an hard encounter), not too easy and certainly not too hard (Ah Ah, you'll get killed by the unkillable Larloch!). If that means to change the established level of a NPC, I would do it except it would ruins the experience of the players (What ?, Halaster is a good fight for 5th level PCs !?)
BTW, I hate the expression "power-gaming" except mayve when used to describe renowed broken combos (not Pun-Pun/Cheater of Mystra, that's just not gaming anymore).
I'm not saying no one should be able to fight a famous NPC. But I do think that some of them are simply beyond what PCs can do (Larloch) and that others should be a serious challenge, even at really high levels (Manshoon). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Sep 2008 05:55:23 |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 09:53:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In my opinion, when high-level characters like Manshoon, who in the fiction is widely considered to be very dangerous, are considered to be easy kills, then you are power-gaming. It is also my opinion that most DMs who allow such things are not playing the opposition to its full potential.
I think PCs should be able to fight and win agaisn't some famous NPCs, that's one of the biggest advantage of an established setting (players getting all excited about meeting/fighting NPCs they know from novels, etc.)
The key is to introduce those NPCs at the level where they are a good fight (in 4E terms, I would say an hard encounter), not too easy and certainly not too hard (Ah Ah, you'll get killed by the unkillable Larloch!). If that means to change the established level of a NPC, I would do it except it would ruins the experience of the players (What ?, Halaster is a good fight for 5th level PCs !?)
BTW, I hate the expression "power-gaming" except mayve when used to describe renowed broken combos (not Pun-Pun/Cheater of Mystra, that's just not gaming anymore).
I'm not saying no one should be able to fight a famous NPC. But I do think that some of them are simply beyond what PCs can do (Larloch) and that others should be a serious challenge, even at really high levels (Manshoon).
I fully agree with Wooly here. If you kill Manshoon easily there is no chance of your character dying, right? IMO this chance of dying is one requirement which will intensify your gaming experience, because it will give you the uneasy feeling in your stomach. Without that its "just" a ROFL-ROFL-ROFL-did-you-see-him-fall-over-there experience. No risk no fun. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 16:53:08
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Well my char. is realy bad ass. The spells I have researched makes him a mage killer without equal. When you hurl maximized Issac's Missile Storms( From NWN) at your target damaging 240 each rund who can stand that. Also I have a spell almost as powerful a protection as Srinshee's Spellshift. I have fought other lvl 25 mages... same result! they just dont break my protection charm often enough. and then it is only a matter of time before they fall. Sadly.
And lastly. Our DM is realy good at giving us challenges. and an interesting campaign. But one on one with a wizard or sorcere... ill take down a lvl 30 I would amaging! Thats why im going aster Szass Tam. NO BIGGY!  |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:04:01
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About Manshoon specifically, I have nothing against PCs fighting named characters, if it's appropriate to the situation. But I question the use of attacking the Lord of the Zhentarim.
His servitor beholders, Black Network mages and other beings would certainly be able to teleport into his presence in the case of emergency. Added to that, he'd have layered spellwards in place, contingencies upon contingencies, which would protect him from nearly any type of imagineable attack. In fact, he'd probably have a plan tailored for the specific type of attack that would exploit any apparent weaknesses on the part of his assailants.
Combined, these advantages would add up to him being a CR at least 10 above his nominal level. And, even if the PCs did defeat him, all they'd accomplish would be activating some back-up contingency spell that teleported him away toward healing, succor and aid. If they managed to block that, well, they'd kill Manshoon and awaken another Stasis Clone.
Whoopdie-do.
What, they'd be able to loot his body and immediate surroundings? That is, if they could deal with a constant stream of ever strengthening Zhentar reinforcements.
What would killing Manshoon accomplish?
Now, fighting some of his clones during the Manshoon Wars might be another matter. Then, it could be unavoidable. And I can imagine a group of PCs running afoul of Orbakh in Westgate (in fact, mine did and barely made it out alive).
But Manshoon himself? It's just so pointless, since he'll just lose a few weeks of his life and then settle down to plot against you. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 02 Sep 2008 17:12:11 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not saying no one should be able to fight a famous NPC. But I do think that some of them are simply beyond what PCs can do (Larloch) and that others should be a serious challenge, even at really high levels (Manshoon).
In 4E, I would use Manshoon around level 25 and Larloch around level 30 with lots of Lich minions  . |
Edited by - Skeptic on 02 Sep 2008 17:06:57 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
His servitor beholders, Black Network mages and other beings would certainly be able to teleport into his presence in the case of emergency. Added to that, he'd have layered spellwards in place, contingencies upon contingencies, which would protect him from nearly any type of imagineable attack. In fact, he'd probably have a plan tailored for the specific type of attack that would exploit any apparent weaknesses on the part of his assailants.
Combined, these advantages would add up to him being a CR at least 10 above his nominal level. And, even if the PCs did defeat him, all they'd accomplish would be activating some back-up contingency spell that teleported him away toward healing, succor and aid. If they managed to block that, well, they'd kill Manshoon and awaken another Stasis Clone.
[snip]
But Manshoon himself? It's just so pointless, since he'll just lose a few weeks of his life and then settle down to plot against you.
It's when I read stuff like this that I have hope that 4E may changes things for the best. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Well my char. is realy bad ass. The spells I have researched makes him a mage killer without equal. When you hurl maximized Issac's Missile Storms( From NWN) at your target damaging 240 each rund who can stand that. Also I have a spell almost as powerful a protection as Srinshee's Spellshift. I have fought other lvl 25 mages... same result! they just dont break my protection charm often enough. and then it is only a matter of time before they fall. Sadly.
In general, wizards like Manshoon, Szass Tam, Larloch, Halaster et al have had centuries to research and or discover spells secret to other casters. They've also had centuries of experience in spell duels.
Unless something very strange is going on, a PC adventurer who has spent a few years on the road is not going to know secrets that they don't have access to. Any spell the PC knows, the centuries-old villain will have encountered before and likely knows a counter to. And don't forget the chance that wizards like Szass Tam, Manshoon or Larloch might know spells that few living spellcasters have any idea how to counter or defend from.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
And lastly. Our DM is realy good at giving us challenges. and an interesting campaign. But one on one with a wizard or sorcere... ill take down a lvl 30 I would amaging! Thats why im going aster Szass Tam. NO BIGGY!
Why would Szass Tam feel the need to duel some outlander mage? He could just have several dozen ambitious magelings kill him with simultaneous blasts. Couple of hundred disposable undead servants to distract and interfere with the opposition and a circle of mages that launch a surprise assault that kills the party in one round.
That's what evil overlords do. They don't take a noble wandstance and fight fair against people who might conceivably endanger them. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:22:23
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In fact I was instantly attacked by 5 wizards trying to defend, what I can only amaging was a clone. But they fell too. After that another 5 or so joined in and I got out of there all in all i had lost 8 lvl by a Intenzified Enovation, but that was about it. But make no mistake, i knew that it was only a matter of time before my wards would be breached. So I left!
Concerning the wards. Well two things. I have a robe, that gives me "Magister's Step. The ability to ignore wards and barriors of 6th lvl and lower. Further I must admit, that my DM probably didn't know much about what wards he might or might not have installed. Thou I was tolled that i could feel a lot as I passed them. So all in all i know a have not done much except destroy a clone. But that was enough. I just wanted to stress or taunt the Zent's. Slowly weakening them. And trust me im going back there alone. Im gonna ride up to the fromt gate and say: ."I come here to comand the surrender of Zentil Keep. Lay down your weapons and prepare to be judged". He he... it will be awesome!
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:26:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
It's when I read stuff like this that I have hope that 4E may changes things for the best.
What changes would that be?
Don't you believe that there should be anything in the world that is beyond the abilities of the PCs to do what they want to it?
Personally, I can't imagine any player older than 11-years-old feeling badly that there are some things that intelligent characters don't do. Trying to stare into the sun until it blinks is one thing. Randomly picking fights with world leaders and then running into their protected demesne is another.
I've run campaigns where the PCs did fight people of comparable power to Manshoon. And they did expect and encounter similar protections. And they planned around them, countered them and defeated them. Which means that their victory was belivable and actually meant something to them.
Unlike what happens in a world that is deliberately set up to 'play fair' and allow the PCs to win. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 02 Sep 2008 17:27:23 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
It's when I read stuff like this that I have hope that 4E may changes things for the best.
Not to de-rail this thread, but why? 
We already have evidence that the designers are struggling to come up with new material (bringing back all of the 'Lost Empires', for instance), and if the BBG's of the setting get killed and stayed dead, then the setting itself would need a non-stop input of new BBG's. What are they supposed to do? Release a list of the next 50 guys in-line to replace Manshoon within the Zentarrim?
This is a shared-world GAMING setting, and being able to permanently kill all high-level threats reduces the value of the setting as a gaming environment. Not saying folks can't do whatever they want in their own games, but I get the feeling that you like the idea that the 'big threats' in FR should be killed and stay dead in the canon setting, which makes no sense, because we'd need a new sourcebook everytime some author wrote another novel.
If you just want to kill everything in site, then you are just treating FR like one great, big dungeon...
And thats such a waste of it's potential.
Besides, why someone like Manshoon would allow himself to just stand there and be killed like some dopey VG monster is beyond me. He should have enough contingencies in effect to get him away from ANYTHING he couldn't handle. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Sep 2008 17:41:49 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:51:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
What changes would that be?
Don't you believe that there should be anything in the world that is beyond the abilities of the PCs to do what they want to it?
Personally, I can't imagine any player older than 11-years-old feeling badly that there are some things that intelligent characters don't do. Trying to stare into the sun until it blinks is one thing. Randomly picking fights with world leaders and then running into their protected demesne is another.
I've run campaigns where the PCs did fight people of comparable power to Manshoon. And they did expect and encounter similar protections. And they planned around them, countered them and defeated them. Which means that their victory was belivable and actually meant something to them.
Unlike what happens in a world that is deliberately set up to 'play fair' and allow the PCs to win.
Play fair doesn't mean to give the victory without any effort. If I play chess with you, I expect that we play fair (on equal terms), but I don't except you to let me win.
I do think there is a place in fantasy for much of the things players would want to do (including killing a god in particuliar circumstances).
That doesn't mean I like a cheesy slaughter of named NPCs with just-made Gold Dragon Paladins of the 20th level  !
What is important for me, is that a DM doesn't use those famous NPCs as trap for the players to fall into, it's too easy and not much more mature than my example above.
And I was talking about 4E system, not the changes to the FR setting.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 02 Sep 2008 17:53:41 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 17:52:23
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Yes... it is true that he seemed a bit to whats the word.. crapy, but then angain i was a clone, and im pretty sure he wards "him-self" with a bit more protection than his clones. ( have not yet found out if "the real" is still alive) Further more, I was part of a plot to weaken and stress the zents not som much as taking an evil lord out. Not direktly. But if other mages see him go down... by a single intruder. They will question his power and by that perhaps some rebellion might start. Or adleast thats what I hope for.
And I do not treat FR as one big dungeon, but a playground and a haven from the "real" everyday life. Two thumbs up for Ed!!!! |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 18:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Play fair doesn't mean to give the victory without any effort. If I play chess with you, I expect that we play fair (on equal terms), but I don't except you to let me win.
But roleplaying isn't chess and it isn't designed to provide an equal basis to two opposed players in order for them to compete.
If we used a poker analogy, would you think that there was anything wrong with a player who had a pair of deuces and went all in against four people being likely to suffer defeat and disappointment?
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
I do think there is a place in fantasy for much of the things players would want to do (including killing a god in particuliar circumstances).
I've run a Forgotten Realms campaign where the party killed two, actually.
But they did it with planning, allying with other gods and a lot of losses.
Not because the system and setting was set up so that all possible opposition was 'balanced' against them.
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
That doesn't mean I like a cheesy slaughter of named NPCs with just-made Gold Dragon Paladins of the 20th level !
Well, the aformentioned Gold Dragon Paladin is at least powerful enough to make it believable that he'd win over most opponents. What I particularly object to is lack of internal logic, i.e. a character that has historically been shown to be able to defeat much tougher opposition is suddenly hit with an attack of the dumbs and killed by relatively unprepared foes just because they happen to be PCs.
I actively hate any form of fiction or game where the protagonist has an explicit or implicit advantage that isn't due to anything else than his status as The Hero.
Bad Hollywood films, I'm looking at you! 
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
What is important for me, is that a DM doesn't use those famous NPCs as trap for the players to fall into, it's too easy and not much more mature than my example above.
Well, a nice GM can certainly mention to his players when he feels that they're making a decision that will probably land them in Kelemvor's realm.
Hell, I often have casual conversations with my players outside of game time, where we might kick around Realmslore and wonder about 'what-ifs'. I don't think any of my players have any illusions about what will happen if they barge into a lethal situation with poor planning and no exit strategy. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 18:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Personally, in D&D I prefer to develop a character from 1st level over years rather than skip to high level without knowing who he is or how to use his abilities in play.
How do the other players feel?
I agree that there is nothing quite like nuturing a character from level 1. Even "low level" characters have power in the Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 18:37:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Well my char. is realy bad ass. The spells I have researched makes him a mage killer without equal. When you hurl maximized Issac's Missile Storms( From NWN) at your target damaging 240 each rund who can stand that.
LOL. IMS spells are fun, but they are known even amongst the NWN community to be overpowered. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 19:22:20
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| That spell is the weakest I have created my self... you should se my lvl 9, self creations... he he... thats why I kick wizard ass or any other ass for that matter!!! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 19:44:05
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| Uh, you just admitted the spell in question is from NWN. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 20:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Play fair doesn't mean to give the victory without any effort. If I play chess with you, I expect that we play fair (on equal terms), but I don't except you to let me win.
But roleplaying isn't chess and it isn't designed to provide an equal basis to two opposed players in order for them to compete.
Actually Skeptic's analogy to chess is spot on. That's exactly what 4th edition feels like.
As for defeating a Manshoon clone, the reach of the Zhentarim is long indeed and they have a lot of resources. The assassins coming your way know your fighting style and I'm sure have been equiped with items to neutralize your spellcasting. After all, in an antimagic field, a wizard is a d4 commoner, but an assassin with a poisoned dagger is still a assassin with a poisoned dagger. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 20:56:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Actually Skeptic's analogy to chess is spot on. That's exactly what 4th edition feels like.
Possibly. At least, it doesn't sound like any roleplaying game I've encountered.
It seems that the design philosophy behind the new edition was to deliver a gaming experience that's utterly foreign to everything I look for in a roleplaying game.
I might enjoy it as a miniature battlesystem, but I doubt that I'll make time to play it as such. If I had enough free time and interested gamers to add a purely tactical gaming experience to my regular gaming, I'd probably be more interested in historical warfare games.
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
As for defeating a Manshoon clone, the reach of the Zhentarim is long indeed and they have a lot of resources. The assassins coming your way know your fighting style and I'm sure have been equiped with items to neutralize your spellcasting. After all, in an antimagic field, a wizard is a d4 commoner, but an assassin with a poisoned dagger is still a assassin with a poisoned dagger.
True enough.
Killing Fzoul would actually easier, I suspect, not to mention the fact that it would do some good. Manshoon is an easier man to deal with and he'd be willing to come to a modus vivendi in return to being secured as the sole power in the Zhentarim upper echelons again.
If I was fighting the Black Network, it's likely that this would be my strategic objective. Strike at centres of power that are purely pro-Bane and pro-Fzoul, decapitate the Banites by removing Fzoul and then dealing with Manshoon. Get him to agree to a sensible scheme of expansion that included Melvaunt and Hillsfar, but excluded the Dales.
The Red Wizards are a clear and present danger to Zhent mercantile interests anyway, so Manshoon would be a fool not to see the benefit of not having to guard his southern borders as carefully and not have to waste precious covert resources on Harpers when he could be fighting Red Wizard influence in Mulmaster.
Not to mention the Shade threat right in his backyard. We can be sure that the prospect of a reinvigorated Netheril around Aunarauch doesn't please anyone at the helm in Zhentil Keep.
Killing Manshoon is a mug's game. He's a natural ally against much more serious threats. It's just Fzoul's fanaticism that's preventing the Zhentarim from coming to reasonable terms. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 00:17:13
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| Well I have spells to cope with assasins aswell no problems... and Fzoul is dead as well. Our Cleric took him out! Some time ago... but only just. some lucky rolls or somthing he tolled me! |
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Powergaming?
