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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 20:16:46
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So as not to hijack someone else's thread, I thought I'd open up an new one.
quote:
In that other thread, our every-hopeful Sage waxed peotically Well, you've purchased the book, and admit there are some positive things about the 4e Realms. So why not simply use what you found positive about the post Spellplague Realms, and build your current campaign, using pre-4e Realmslore, toward that?
Like many on these forums, I kept an open mind during the publicity rush prior to the realease of the 4E Realms, and I bought the new FRCG and read it with as much of an open mind as I could muster. I really wanted to find that "Realms magic" that dfemling also said he was looking for. Unfortunatly, I simply failed.
I keep looking at the FRCG and I keep trying to find even a small trace of the excitement that I've felt for the Realms since Ed's first Dragon articles came out in the late 70's. It just isn't there.
The 4E Realms feel sanitized. They've been scrubbed clean of everything that I found unique and interesting (and special) about them. They've lost the Realms flavor. Some of the names are stills the same, but they ring hallow. Waterdeep isn't the City of Splendors anymore, it's just another big, grimy fantasy city. It could easily be the City State of the Overlord or Lankmar.
I'd love to take up the Sage's challenge of taking the post-Spellplague Realms and re-flavoring it with pre-4E lore, but I'm bewildered for a place to start.
How do you add back the thyat magical feeling that we all know the Realms had? I can't even put my finger on what it was that made the Realms so special. I don't know what's missing, but I certainly lcan tell that it's gone from the FRCG. And I want it back!!!
The advice of other Realms fans is always a good place to start. What would you do to add back in that "magical feeling" to the 4E Realms? I'm not talking about changing the last 100 years of history - that's been set now and there's nothing we can do to change that. I really want gamers that are just being introduced to the Forgotten Realms to enjoy the same "magic" that I have for the past 20+ years.
How do we add back the good parts of the old Realms to what's been set before us? Any thoughts?
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"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 23:02:08
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I strongly disagree with you! Lankhmar has more character and more integrity than these abominations Hasbro is now publishing. I was almost apoplectic when I read the August preview on pseudo-Chult.
Mongoose didn't even try to update Glorantha when they took over Runequest: they placed their setting centuries (millennia?) in the past, in Glorantha's Second Age, adding to the compiled lore instead of obliterating it, and as far as I know, their current Lankhmar is little different from Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar.
New Coke. That's what Hasbro's abominations are, and the only way that they'll recover that "magical feeling that ... the realms had" is to just have Elminster step out of the shower and discover that this "Spellplague" carp and collision with "Abeir" was all a dream or perhaps a hallucination someone had in the mage's asylum in Waterdeep while playing with a snowglobe of Icewind Dale.
Hasbro's grotesque rape of the Forgotten Realms is on a par with GM announcing a new car which gets five miles per gallon. If I were a Hasbro stockholder, directly or through a mutual fund, I would be at the next stockholder's meeting screaming the necessity of kicking Brian Goldner out into the street, preferably after slicing his golden parachute to ribbons.
Previously I merely disliked Hasbro's Realms.New.Coke. Having seen all of the previews up to August 7th, I can now affirm that I actively hate what they have done. I have solemnly assured my players that I will never use any of this new carp in my campaign and that any money which they spend on Realms.New.Coke is wasted, whether they buy the books new or used. Having seen some of what Hasbro has now done to the never-ending saga of Orcus-Tenebrous-Orcus I (yea, even I!) am at a loss for words to describe how utterly disenchanted I am; presumably Hasbro has decreed by imperial fiat that all of the high-level PCs who went up against Orcus-Tenebrous in earlier modules are now just assumed to be incurably insane or dead of old age, so it is now safe to send low-level PCs against Orcus and his minions. Demon lord, god-slayer ... thwarted by a gaggle of PCs whom he could kill with one mighty fart ... riiight.
I had been looking forward to the Spellgard adventure for a year. What has Hasbro spat forth? Where once a Mystra-bearing Chosen and a Zhentarim mage and a Netherese archlich battled, we have a feeble shell in which it is safe enough for second-level PCs to adventure. Why call it "Spellgard"? Why not "Generic Beginner's Dungeon #2"? If I buy it at all (used, so Hasbro makes no money from my purchase), it will be for nothing but the art and the maps.
Ah ... the art and the maps. Most of the 4.New.Coke art which I have seen is terrific! I can't lodge any complaints about most of the artwork which I have seen. The maps? They ... ah ... hmmm ... they suck Cartman's bottom, if ya know what I mean. It's the artwork alone which will keep most of these books from being pulped by 2010. However good the art may be, however, it is definitely not worth the thirty or forty or more dollars Hasbro wants for their New.Coke books; it's the text which justifies prices like that, and from what I have seen, all of these Realms.New.Coke books are pure carp ... if ya know what I mean (and I ain't talkin' about fish!).
That I suppose, is my final answer to your question, Halidan: if I use any of this Realms.New.Coke carp at all it will be to buy the books used, cut out the cool pictures, dump the rest into the recycling bin, and use the art to illustrate modules which were written for OD&D or AD&D, or which I make up myself. There being absolutely no genuine Realmslore in any of this carp, I now feel free to take locations such as Spellgard or the Dungeon of Swords and make up whatever I please about them, within the framework of lore laid down before the awful summer of 2008 (the year which marks the death of D&D as a "Living" game).
Head hung low and fists clenched, I, too, go.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 23:18:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
The advice of other Realms fans is always a good place to start. What would you do to add back in that "magical feeling" to the 4E Realms? I'm not talking about changing the last 100 years of history - that's been set now and there's nothing we can do to change that. I really want gamers that are just being introduced to the Forgotten Realms to enjoy the same "magic" that I have for the past 20+ years.
How do we add back the good parts of the old Realms to what's been set before us? Any thoughts?
Well, my personal solution is to not use the recent changes (Spellplague et al.) at all, although I admit that wasn't specifically what you asked. After all, no one is forcing anyone to use stuff that they don't like. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 23:22:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
New Coke. That's what Hasbro's abominations are, and the only way that they'll recover that "magical feeling that ... the realms had" is to just have Elminster step out of the shower and discover that this "Spellplague" carp and collision with "Abeir" was all a dream or perhaps a hallucination someone had in the mage's asylum in Waterdeep while playing with a snowglobe of Icewind Dale.
Spellplague carp? So, the one behind it all was a fish. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 00:06:09
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I can tell you one of the things that made the Realms stand out for me back in the 70s and 80s were the unique locales and landmarks often portrayed in Ed's Everwinking Eye series of articles. More than any other single Realmslore, those articles set the stage for me on how I perceived the Realms to be. A realm where exploration can lead you to wonders and marvels never before seen. That, more than anything, is what defines a good gaming world, Realms or otherwise.
This is just my own personal opinion, but I think the core game's shift over the past two editions to a much more mechanical style with the numbers of the game has hurt the Realms. It puts more emphasis on how you experience the Realms more than what, where, and why you experience various cool Realms lore. I'm probably wrong, of course.  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
Edited by - Varl on 30 Aug 2008 00:08:13 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 00:56:12
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What brought me to the Realms is how detailed it was. I fell in love with the details, and then enjoyed the evolution of the story of the realms.
Jumping ahead 100 years...... has made all that into history.... so the details aren't all that great for playing in the current timeline.... as for the story.... well that's been dumped....
The 100 year jump really killed the realms for me.
If they had taken us through those 100 years, it may not have been so bad.... though those first 10 years would have been a pisser. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 01:40:56
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| I could have handled the 100 year timeline jump if there had not been all the other changes to deities and geography as well. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 01:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
If I were a Hasbro stockholder, directly or through a mutual fund, I would be at the next stockholder's meeting screaming the necessity of kicking Brian Goldner out into the street, preferably after slicing his golden parachute to ribbons.
I must admit that I don't know who Brian Goldner is, but from context I'm guessing he's a WotC executive. Anyway, as I've posted elsewhere at Candlekeep, every indication is that sales of the 4E Core Rulebooks, and now the Forgotten Realms book in particular, have been very, very strong, both as new titles in general and when taken in comparison to to the launch numbers of the same or similar titles in the previous edition. And by "every indication," I mean, "the numbers publishing professionals look at."
So if you show up howling for this guy's head at the stockholder's meeting, don't be surprised that everybody else is voting him a raise. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 02:02:06
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People bought Pet Rocks too...
It doesn't mean they were good. 
All that proves is that consumers are morons. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2008 03:25:45 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 02:13:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
People bought Pet Rocks too...
It doesn'[t] mean they were good.
Right. And of course, it doesn't mean they were bad, either.
quote:
All that proves is that consumers are morons.
Hey! I resemble that remark! 
Bought it, like it, considered-not-a-moron-by-my-wife-at-least,
Christopher |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 02:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
People bought Pet Rocks too...
It doesn'[t] mean they were good.
Right. And of course, it doesn't mean they were bad, either.
quote:
All that proves is that consumers are morons.
Hey! I resemble that remark!
Bought it, like it, considered-not-a-moron-by-my-wife-at-least,
Christopher
Nicely handled! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 30 Aug 2008 02:21:13 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 02:34:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
If I were a Hasbro stockholder, directly or through a mutual fund, I would be at the next stockholder's meeting screaming the necessity of kicking Brian Goldner out into the street, preferably after slicing his golden parachute to ribbons.
I must admit that I don't know who Brian Goldner is, but from context I'm guessing he's a WotC executive. Anyway, as I've posted elsewhere at Candlekeep, every indication is that sales of the 4E Core Rulebooks, and now the Forgotten Realms book in particular, have been very, very strong, both as new titles in general and when taken in comparison to to the launch numbers of the same or similar titles in the previous edition. And by "every indication," I mean, "the numbers publishing professionals look at."
So if you show up howling for this guy's head at the stockholder's meeting, don't be surprised that everybody else is voting him a raise.
CR, do you have the numbers? I'd be interested in seeing them.
Sorry, but I'm a bit of cynic after working for a software company that showed they were a growth industry ripe for a buyout after bringing in a outsider to "polish the apple". They had suspended pay raises for a year to show they were making more money. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 01:17:57
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Brian Goldner is Hasbro's new CEO, who was recently voted an ENORMOUS bonus (the kind which can buy several Obama-McCain-level houses). In 2007 Hasbro's profits were up 20%, if I recall correctly, but that is from all sources, including Easy-Bake Ovens and what-not, much of it pre-dating Goldner's hiring.
As for Pet Rocks ... I, too, resemble that remark. Now, however, I am owned by a Virtual Pet Rock (out of the Netherlands -- ".nl" -- Google it for their web page), which is even more demanding than my players are. I mean really demanding, and it never buys pizza for me.
On the other hand, my Virtual Pet Rock never insists that I spend a thousand dollars over a five year period or be wrong whenever I argue with a player who has spent a thousand dollars, and it doesn't thereafter demand that another thousand dollars worth of soon-to-be-eBay-bait books and toys be bought to replace them in five years, or I'll be even more more wrong when I argue with my players. (And such arguments are inevitable when "adventures" come in two parts, the first part of which is always in a book essential to running a character in the Realms.New.Coke, which means that every player has a copy, and with FREQUENT announcements from Wizards that while "the DM is always right," any rule in a new book which contradicts any rule in an old book is RIGHT, while the old rule is WRONG, with an implication that no one should waste time playing with a DM who doesn't have every book published by Wizards, even non-Realms.New.Coke books, each one of which is certain to have some rule which contracdicts some older rule.)
As for a fish being at fault ... yes. I think it was the one who walked out of the Persian Gulf (before there was such a thing as Persians) and started this whole "civilization" thing. Hunter-gatherers are much happier than we are, I think. At least that's what anthropologists who study the San (Bushmen) say (although none of them have ever volunteered to give up tenure to gather roots and berries).
My, my, my. Is it apparent that I had a pot of coffee this morning?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 03:39:11
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Don't take offense.
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
That just makes me another moron.
Case in point - I bought EVERYTHING TSR put out... and a lot of it is still shrink-wrapped. I bought stuff just because it was D&D related, or even just because it was made by TSR (like Gamma World).
And I have to say, a LOT of it was utter crap. I won't say which stuff I thought was crap, because I know for a fact others here liked it. "One man's garbage is another man's treasure", or something like that.
Anyhow, people will buy 4th edition and FR products REGARDLESS of how bad they are, so 'sales figures' are really a poor indication of quality.
The true deciding factor will be if it has 'staying power', which I personally don't think it does - as of now, there is NOT enough diversity and material to keep people's interest, and the DDi will NOT be able to provide that, because MOST people won't go for receiving their RPG game material via an online resource.
Gamers are all about their books, and if WotC hasn't figured THAT out yet, they are in some serious trouble.
Give it a year and we'll see what the 'sales figures' are doing then. I'm bettin' this is just a flash-in-the-pan.
PS - Add to this that WotC continues to lay off people, while Paizo continues to hire (some of those same people). You don't cancel products, novels, online presence, and downsize when you are doing well.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2008 03:45:28 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 06:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You don't cancel products, novels, online presence, and downsize when you are doing well.
Strangely enough, that's exactly what WotC did after the release of Third Edition D&D and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 14:33:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You don't cancel products, novels, online presence, and downsize when you are doing well.
Strangely enough, that's exactly what WotC did after the release of Third Edition D&D and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
And depending on how carefully that info is massaged, it can be presented to shareholders as proof of doing well. "Look, we've cut production costs while this is selling so well!" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 31 Aug 2008 14:33:59 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 15:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Brian Goldner is Hasbro's new CEO, who was recently voted an ENORMOUS bonus (the kind which can buy several Obama-McCain-level houses). In 2007 Hasbro's profits were up 20%, if I recall correctly, but that is from all sources, including Easy-Bake Ovens and what-not, much of it pre-dating Goldner's hiring......
Well my goal of a 3 day weekend without hearing the names McCain or Obama falls dreadfully short! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 15:08:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Don't take offense.
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
That just makes me another moron.
Case in point - I bought EVERYTHING TSR put out... and a lot of it is still shrink-wrapped. I bought stuff just because it was D&D related, or even just because it was made by TSR (like Gamma World).
And I have to say, a LOT of it was utter crap. I won't say which stuff I thought was crap, because I know for a fact others here liked it. "One man's garbage is another man's treasure", or something like that.
Anyhow, people will buy 4th edition and FR products REGARDLESS of how bad they are, so 'sales figures' are really a poor indication of quality.
The true deciding factor will be if it has 'staying power', which I personally don't think it does - as of now, there is NOT enough diversity and material to keep people's interest, and the DDi will NOT be able to provide that, because MOST people won't go for receiving their RPG game material via an online resource.
Gamers are all about their books, and if WotC hasn't figured THAT out yet, they are in some serious trouble.
Give it a year and we'll see what the 'sales figures' are doing then. I'm bettin' this is just a flash-in-the-pan.
PS - Add to this that WotC continues to lay off people, whilePaizo continues to hire (some of those same people). You don't cancel products, novels, online presence, and downsize when you are doing well.
I underlined a phrase, that if you read many other forums/blogs, you get the feeling Paizo is hiring Many, many of the Wotc Refugees. Good for them, should be interesting the see what the 2 companies look like 2 years from now. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 15:12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
[snip]New Coke. That's what Hasbro's abominations are, and the only way that they'll recover that "magical feeling that ... the realms had" is to just have Elminster step out of the shower and discover that this "Spellplague" carp and collision with "Abeir" was all a dream or perhaps a hallucination someone had in the mage's asylum in Waterdeep while playing with a snowglobe of Icewind Dale.[snip]
Either that, or [booming deity voice begins]...... HAVE LATHANDER, IN THE FACE OF SUCH DESTRUCTION, AND OUT OF GENUINE FEARS THAT AUMANATOR IS ABOUT TO BUMP HIM OUT OF OFFICE, FINALLY INITIATE HIS DAWN CATACLYSM, ESSENTIALLY RESETTING THE REALMS TO 1373~ISH. yeah! |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 16:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
Pet Rocks?
You mean people sold rocks and other people bought them as pets. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but rather a lot of you on the West side of the Atlantic are a bit odd at times. |
Death is Life
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Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 17:05:30
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I'll have you know they came with a house, bed, and even a Care and Feeding manual!
The book even lets you know that they are really good at the commands 'Sit', 'heel', 'lay down', and 'play dead'.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And depending on how carefully that info is massaged, it can be presented to shareholders as proof of doing well. "Look, we've cut production costs while this is selling so well!"
And the two most recent firings were the two people in charge of the licensing Dept. - something they no longer need, since no-one is trying to get licensed to use 4e.
They were supposed to re-vamp te GSL, and instead they fired the two people who were trying to accomplish that (I don't have their names handy at ATM). That tells me that WotC doesn't want 'partners' anymore.
Which is good, because they certainly aren't making any friends these days.
P.S. Linnae Foster was one of the people I was thinking of. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2008 17:14:43 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 17:27:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
Pet Rocks?
You mean people sold rocks and other people bought them as pets. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but rather a lot of you on the West side of the Atlantic are a bit odd at times.
Sometimes I am quite amazed at this fountain of wisdom. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
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"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 31 Aug 2008 17:30:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 17:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
Pet Rocks?
You mean people sold rocks and other people bought them as pets. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but rather a lot of you on the West side of the Atlantic are a bit odd at times.
Every country can produce its own odd crazes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 17:30:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
[snip]New Coke. That's what Hasbro's abominations are, and the only way that they'll recover that "magical feeling that ... the realms had" is to just have Elminster step out of the shower and discover that this "Spellplague" carp and collision with "Abeir" was all a dream or perhaps a hallucination someone had in the mage's asylum in Waterdeep while playing with a snowglobe of Icewind Dale.[snip]
Either that, or [booming deity voice begins]...... HAVE LATHANDER, IN THE FACE OF SUCH DESTRUCTION, AND OUT OF GENUINE FEARS THAT AUMANATOR IS ABOUT TO BUMP HIM OUT OF OFFICE, FINALLY INITIATE HIS DAWN CATACLYSM, ESSENTIALLY RESETTING THE REALMS TO 1373~ISH. yeah!
Using a second Dawn Cataclysm is an interesting idea for a reboot... Though it's hard to figure out how to do it in the Shattered Realms, since Lathander isn't around, then. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 31 Aug 2008 17:31:33 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 17:53:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
Pet Rocks?
You mean people sold rocks and other people bought them as pets. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but rather a lot of you on the West side of the Atlantic are a bit odd at times.
Sometimes I am quite amazed at this fountain of wisdom.
I am equally amazed at Amy Winehouse (as are most Americans).
My Pet Rock is far more attractive, in SO many ways. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 18:51:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I am equally amazed at Amy Winehouse (as are most Americans).
My Pet Rock is far more attractive, in SO many ways.
 You make a fair point. I'm not quite sure what Amy Winehouse is supposed to be apart from a total mess. It's well known that the lass likes a drink or two. I was recently in England for a holiday and apparently she is the celebrity most people have nightmares about. Which makes sense to me. I wouldn't want to wake in the middle of the night and find her standing at the foot of my bed. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 31 Aug 2008 18:52:15 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 18:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I bought a Pet Rock too, when they came out in the 70's.
Pet Rocks?
You mean people sold rocks and other people bought them as pets. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive, but rather a lot of you on the West side of the Atlantic are a bit odd at times.
Hmmmmm.....could there be any odd likes on the left side of the pond???
No chance.....except who is that German Rock Star who no one hear can understand why?.....
David Hasslehoff,
if your fellow Germans can make him an uber-star, I think you can forgive us our pet rocks!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 20:28:56
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I like to approach the Realms as offering an unfixed future from whatever point the DM wishes to begin a campaign. This is what we did at the NWN2 PW project referenced in my sig. We started with Amn in late 1370, the nation rocked back on its heels by the shocking invasion of the Sythillisian Empire, and let the story unfold from there. Events then have unfolded irrespective of the official canon that has been laid down since from WotC. Consider it an alternative future.
I have no interest at all in the 4th edition Forgotten Realms. So for me the Realms will always live vibrantly in my imagination prior to 4th edition. And players will interact with it as a blank slate from whenever we begin the adventure. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 20:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Alright, folks, let's find our way back to the topic.
Thanks Wooly. I was about to make this same plea myself, but I appreciate your assistance.
Folks - while I appreciate (and even agre with) many of the frustrations expressed about the FRCG, I really do want to work with this book. I may not like how the FRCG presents the post-Spellplague Realms, but for many new Realms fans, this book will be how they are now introduced to the Realms.
What my original post was trying to accomplish was to get the Realms fans and experts on this board to help me identify what needs to be added to the FRCG to give new FR gamers the same experience that the rest of us have enjoyed for 20+ years.
With the collective Realms knowledge on this forum, we should be able to figure out what suplimental information is needed to allow the currently missing "Realms magic" to spring forth from the FRCG. I really want folks who are now meeting the Realms for the first time to be able to experience this "magic." I just can't figure where to start. I'd really welcome your help. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
Edited by - Halidan on 31 Aug 2008 20:41:10 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 21:22:38
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| The only thing that springs to mind is to reintroduce some of the excellent NPCs that Ed. Greenwood (& others) developed. Also I would suggest that you ignore the 'PCs are the most powerful people in the world' idea. |
Edited by - arry on 31 Aug 2008 21:23:16 |
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Topic |
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Recovering what's been lost
