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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 12:10:21
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Do we actually know who built the stuff there or how it was created? I searched it on the forums, but didn't seem to get any answers.
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Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:32:54
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| If you're referring to the crystalline towers in the region, it was batrachi creator race that constructed them. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 16:28:32
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| Take a look at Candlekeep Compendium III, p. 22 and later for more information from the loremasters of these very halls. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 19:42:04
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I don't have time to respond to this in full, but from other research I have done, I don't think the Batrachi were the last to actually use the ruins. 
There are some more recent (around the end of Netheril) rumours pertaining to the war between two cities, and the goddesses Kiputytto and Talona.
I happen to think both of those Batrachi cities were found and used much later by Thaeravel, land of Alabaster Towers.
But thats conjecture, based on rumours, and what Brian says is canon. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 07:21:18
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My thinking is the Batrachi started out as an aquatic, octopoid race living in the ocean of the Trackless Sea. They are ancestors of the tako and blue-ring octopus, and doppelganger races and, like those races, had some minor color-shifting and shape-shifting abilities of their own to camouflage themselves in their hostile environment beneath the waves. This was long before they metamorphosized into the frog-like Batrachi so as to colonize the land.
When the aquatic race developed their first civilizations and began to build structures on the ocean floor, the most prevalent building material was sand, from which they learned to make glass blocks. I imagine some of this was accomplished using non-magical technology, first in undersea caverns with air-pockets so as to ignite fires and build the furnaces needed for their craft. But later they developed many ingenious techniques for creating their great furnaces that burned with intense heat deep below the waters, even in the absence of air.
Because they used big glass blocks, their early structures tended towards stepped buildings, wider at the base, for strength against the push of the ocean waves, and the shifting sands of the ocean floor. Outer walls were never straight--ocean currents tend to push tall flat walls over, so their walls were always slanted, to allow water to flow up and over, and usually curved to let the force of water flow around. These structures resembled ziggurats and stepped pyramids, but without the sharp edges, more rounded, appearing slightly melted, aerodynmic, as if the egyptians or babylonians had discovered streamlining. Domes, arches and cuppolas were prevalent. The Haggia Sophia would not have looked out of place there. Later, taller structures tended towards hive-like and parabolic shapes.
Mosaics made of colored glass and mother of pearl, elaborate stained-glass windows and tessellated tiling made from shells, glass enamel and artfully glazed ceramic were the most common forms of ornament.
As they discovered and worked with magic, they abandoned the glass blocks for more seamless, flowing, sculpted forms, crafted directly from melted sand. One technique employed fire and lava elementals to construct soaring edifices that mimicked organic forms, glass towers that rippled like strands of frozen kelp. It was quite the sight to see them perform their work, as they danced about the ocean floor, melting sand and pushing the molten slurry into shapes, walls, spires, columns, windows and archways. Some wove and braided filaments of glass together to make intricate, laced structures that looked as if covered in snowflakes, or draped in flowing veils.
The greatest of the aquatic race's magical architects were known as hyalomancers. They could sculpt the most breathtaking works from the sands of the ocean floor. They crafted gleaming, glass domes that looked like jellyfish, walls and ceilings that suggested the petals of orchids. These organic forms had an almost art-nouveau quality. I think the works of architect Antonio Gaudi somewhat approximate the style of the hyalomancers, and you might also reference the glass art of Dale Chihuly and Louis Tiffany to help you imagine the aesthetic of the aquatic creator race.
Their undersea glass structures have not much survived through the ages as the more beautiful buildings tended to fragility and have fallen or been crushed by the churning tides and other catastrophic forces over millennia.
That is not to say the glass they crafted was brittle, far from it. Over time, the Batrachi had learned the secrets of crafting transparent and colored ceramics as strong as steel. It is that same material of which the towers in the Tun and Farsea marshes are made, and why those towers have endured to this day.
Those towers have held up because they are immune to the eroding and corrosive effects the damp marsh environment has on other building materials. And the still and stagnant waters of the marshes are far gentler compared to the weight and crushing forces of the raging ocean that this architecture was developed to withstand.
Beneath the ocean floor, you can still find traces of the ancient aquatic race, some of their cities and works were preserved as the sands flowed over them, protecting them from the depredations of the ages. Such structures can also be found still standing in some undersea caverns and rifts where they have a modicum of protection. And I am told such ancient ruins are quite common in the "underdeep", that portion of the underdark that lies beneath the ocean floor. But few land-loving races have ever dared to travel to those parts. Such secrets and treasures that must be waiting for those brave souls who would venture there! |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 16:34:15
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Brilliant!  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 19:18:15
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AS usual, your speculations are are always a pleasure to read, Gray.
I have also connected the Batrachi to the quasi-canon Realm of Tides (from the Blood & Magic VG) located on (and off) the coast of the Utter East, along with the people of Doegan (a canon nation of the Utter East), who have some strange 'fish mutations' going on within the population - Mostly the nobility (more Quasi-canon, from the Double-Dimond novel series, and also from the canon Faces of Deception). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 20:51:55
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You know, it has long puzzled me that the tako have only the one big eye, when the batrachi (I assume) had 2 eyes, same as their doppelganger, blue-ring octopus, bullywug, grippli, and siv descendants.
What caused the tako to loose their second eye? (here's a picture of a tako: www.wizards.com/dnd/images/oa_gallery/Tako.jpg)
Two current theories:
1) The tako took to worshipping Gruumsh/Talos (or an aquatic aspect of him) at some point in their history. Perhaps, they were converted by merrow or scrag shamans, or came under the sway of some aquatic orc tribe. They used their shape shifting ability to mimic Gruumsh's one-eye and the trait started to breed true after a few generations.
Alternatively, they may have split off from the Batrachi around the time the aquatic race took up with the god Ramenos. Ramenos transformed his followers into the frog-like batrachi and led them in a great exodus from the ocean to the surface to assume their rightful place as conquerors of the one-land. Some of those left behind may have prayed to Gruumsh for a similar transformation and he in turn may have gifted them with their current monocular configuration.
2) But alternatively, I was thinking their one-eyed status may have to do with an association with the Fomorians. Perhaps the Tako were taken as slaves to the Feywild by Fomorians and transformed magically or selectively bred to have the one-eye. Or perhaps there were aquatic Fomorians who colonized the oceans of Toril and captured some of the aquatic creator race to experiment upon.
And there is a third possibility which is that both theories may be true: perhaps the Fomorians had ties to Gruumsh. It would explain a lot why Gruumsh is the arch-enemy of Corellon, if Gruumsh were tied to the fey pantheon as the patron of Fomorians. Not sure if that connection is there or not, but it intrigues me.
Note that the tako appear to be a far-eastern off-shoot of the aquatic creator race. They are most plentiful in the waters around Kara-Tur. The tako that live in Faerun, such as those in the Sea of Fallen stars appear to have migrated there through portals from Kara-Tur. I suppose that simple geographic isolation might be enough to explain how they diverged through evolution into the one-eyed variety, but I am still very partial to the fomorian or Gruumsh theories. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 17:07:57
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Perhaps some early (Pre-Torillian) adaption by Gruumsh-worshipping Fomorians? Maybe Grumsh and the Fomars had planned to invade a few undersea realms, as well, and bread a few races to that end?
Cyclops can be found serving Fomorians, so I can definately see some sort of connection between the 'Chaos Giants' and one-eyed critters. Perhaps the one-eyed thing once marked certain races as 'Chosen of Gruumsh', or some-such.
I'm thinking there's some connection, perhaps, to Gruumsh being Morradin's opposite as well. Whereas Moraddin is the "Smith God" of the 'goodly' folk (now being the same as Gond in 4e), it would make some sense if Gruumsh had as part of his portfolio 'weapons and engines of destruction'. By giving Gruumsh this 'Ugly Smith' aspect, we gain a round-about connection to Cyclopsi once again by relating Gruumsh to Hephaestus of the Olympian Pantheon.
Just as there are 'Fey Gods' within the Norse pantheon, there's no reason why we couldn't assume that Hephaestus wasn't merely extremely ugly, but actually an Orc working for the Olympians at some point. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Sep 2008 17:09:47 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 04:08:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
2) But alternatively, I was thinking their one-eyed status may have to do with an association with the Fomorians. Perhaps the Tako were taken as slaves to the Feywild by Fomorians and transformed magically or selectively bred to have the one-eye. Or perhaps there were aquatic Fomorians who colonized the oceans of Toril and captured some of the aquatic creator race to experiment upon.
I am confused here. Fomorians have been officially established as deformed giants who are the descendants of the original fomorians spawned from Othea and her unfaithful escapades. Since when did history suddenly change them to being giant, deformed fey creatures from the Plane of Faerie (now suddenly called the Feywild).
I think trying to make sense of Realms history by tying pre-4E and post-4E story and origins is going to muddy things into a chaotic mess . I think for the sake of Candlekeep, shouldn't we keep the two completely separate? For all we know, the future of 4E Realms may evolve into simply abolishing or contradicting practically everything written in pre-4E days and the fact that 4E Realms was created at the last minute with only one purpose in mind and that was to create something parallel to the warped D&D Core Cosmology and everything that came with it that's been warped beyond recognition.
In other words, I see 4E Realms as the missing "Abeir" and don't consider any of it canon to what is known about "Toril". I guess, to me anyway, Toril and all of Realmspace, the multiverse beyond, and time itself was completely destroyed in 1385 D.R. with the advent of 4E...I mean the death of Mystra and the Weave. |
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Farsea Marshes and Marsh of Tun
