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Fire Wraith
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 03:58:45
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A thousand curses upon whomever gave FR Designers "NDA Shield" as an at-will power.  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 04:28:45
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| In any case, thanks for the clarification, guys. I have not seen the FRCG yet. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 20:44:38
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Isn't most of it (the reasons) left vague anyways to make it
1. Easier for DMs to adapt the information as they see fit for their campaign and
2. To promote Dragon online subscriptions
?? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
Edited by - Alisttair on 26 Aug 2008 20:45:07 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 21:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Isn't most of it (the reasons) left vague anyways to make it
1. Easier for DMs to adapt the information as they see fit for their campaign and
2. To promote Dragon online subscriptions
??
Both of these have been accomplished with much better skill and artwork in previous editions. It's the fact that this edition seems so amateurish by comparison that is annoying the fans. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 22:12:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
In any case, thanks for the clarification, guys. I have not seen the FRCG yet.
Nor I, I have not had a chance yet. But I will as I promised. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:46:33
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Worst.. Campaign Setting.. Ever.
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Laerun
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:23:37
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| I am not that happy with most of the newer gaming materials. Ever since Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast bought the rights to TSR the entire game has slowly declined. I strongly believe that the 4th Edition genre is mainly directed by management, and also the marketing aspect has finally taken over. This has put a very distasteful burden upon the players, writers, creative staff, and experienced gamers. Who can afford to keep buying re-hashed materials? Who really needs to follow the 'canon' set out by tons of novels and various editions of AD&D when the games are supposed to be based on immagination, artistic choice, and simple fun. I am oppossed to letting any 'game' company make any sort or choice for my free time. It's also done on a software level as well... yikes!!! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 02:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Worst.. Campaign Setting.. Ever.
Uzzy, don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 02:42:01
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Having read it the FRCG in its entirety, lore changes from 1st-3rd Edition Realms aside, it's entirely too short and doesn't nearly touch enough of the same topics that other campaign settings (Eberron, Ptolus, Dragonlance 3.0, etc.) cover. Groups and organizations are given cursory overviews, sometimes simple paragraphs, and the landscape and geography felt jumbled together and merely a world with a lot of "burned out husks" more than a "Points of Light" situation with untamed wilderness. Likewise, with some many references to the upcoming Player's Guide, it felt like the setting was unplayable without it. Why all the references to swordmages if one don't have the ability to create one without buying another book?
Overall: It needed to be about 1.5-2x the length. The artwork was pretty, but a lot of valuable text could have gone in its place. I'm saddened to give a thumbs-down, but I should have spent my gaming cash elsewhere.  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 03:39:29
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Now that I've read most of it, I would have to agree with Daviot.
There doesn't seem to be enough for new FR DMs to work with, and there's not enough of the old realms to appeal to long-time fans.
As a resource for people who just wanted a ready-made backdrop for their 4e games, its adequate. You have to do a lot of your own work to flesh things out, but its not quite as hard as starting from scratch.
Overall, I'm glad I have it - there's a coupe of things I will use - but I'm glad someone else bought it for me.
If I had to pay for it, I'm fairly certain I would have passed on it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2008 17:25:35 |
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Leon_Stryfe
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 03:51:40
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| Well, I can only complain about the part I've had time to really sit down and take a good look at; the maps. I must say, I'm highly disapointed. While I was no fan of the map changes 3rd edition brought to the table, I at least liked their layout. I cannot say the same for the 4th edition product. The maps looked (to me, at least) rather lacking in quality. To say I'm not a fan of the colour-scheme would be an understatement. Throw in that, per Rich Baker, it's more of an imaginative take as opposed to an actual look, and I cannot seem to stop shaking my head. |
You ask me what I crave above all things? Knowledge. |
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Zeboaster of Ordulin
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 14:10:31
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I think we also have to wait on a full rendering of opinion until the Players Guide to the Realms are released next month. This book is merely the equivalent of the old Cyclopedia of the Realms in the old Grey box. Reviewing the Realms after this book would be like opening the Grey box and only reviewing the Cyclopedia and skipping the other stuff. We still have another book to go yet before we get the full picture here.
After the next book is released, i'll probably read the grey box and then re-read these two books and then compare. In terms of comparisons between the Old Realms and the New Realms, that is probably the fairest comparison.
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Zeboaster, a distinguised character known for his sarcasm and perfumed beard, is currently in hiding after making one too many witty and/or truthful remarks.
FRA p96 |
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evildmguy
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 20:53:15
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Overall, I like it.
I don't like that the map doesn't show everything talked about in the text nor that it is tough to tell that things changes just by looking at the map. I would have preferred another map or two, perhaps the Heartlands, done in a smaller scale.
I think it gives as much information as the 1E book did. In fact, I was about halfway through when I thought about that comparison and it seems to make sense. It has an at a glance, a bit deeper and then rumors and plots sections and they do a good job in presenting those areas.
What I really like, and I am about 2/3 of the way through, is that all of the lands are detailed. They talk a bit of history but most of it is a picture look at the current realms. I think that is what it needed and is done very well. It's not a complete picture, there are some things that need to be filled in, but I am experienced enough, and have enough previous material, to fill in the blanks for my own campaigns.
Things I really like:
Thay: I like that the most powerful is finally in charge. The various zulkirs, especially illusion, never seemed powerful enough to be rulers. I also like the new geography.
Earth Nodes: I like the crazy landscape! No world created by TSR/WotC ever had things that said fantasy. They were more like medieval worlds with magic tacked on, and tacked on poorly. The fact that there will be times when the idea that this is a fantasy world is staring at the characters all the time is really cool.
Chult is more wild and is an island as well as the archipelago of the other areas near it. I also like the idea that the reason there are still colonies at Chult is because it has resources that no one else has. So, it's worth the danger.
I like that Halruaa is gone. I never liked it as an idea, although the comic was okay. I think bringing back a city better and having them recreate Netheril is a much better idea. If only they weren't shades, it would be better.
I like the formal names for the otherwise independent city states. It's about time they were united, even if loosely.
So, I like what I have been reading a lot. Of course, I don't follow canon for my own campaigns, never have much, and will still do what is fun for my group. But I will be using a lot of this and enjoying it all.
edg |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 21:51:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Not retconned. Amaunator's sun was "moved". Why or when is not clear. Bruce wouldn't say.
-Thanks Brian! 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 11:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by evildmguy
Earth Nodes: I like the crazy landscape! No world created by TSR/WotC ever had things that said fantasy. They were more like medieval worlds with magic tacked on, and tacked on poorly.
Halruaa. A true land of fantastic magic, worth for the 4.e setting ... oh, wait ...
quote:
I like that Halruaa is gone. I never liked it as an idea, although the comic was okay. I think bringing back a city better and having them recreate Netheril is a much better idea. If only they weren't shades, it would be better.
No, why on earth should we have a country directly descended from ancient Netheril and its true heir? Better bringing back a transformed city and recreating a new form of Netheril.  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 28 Aug 2008 11:06:12 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:05:28
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Oki, I got my copy a few hours ago (a day after the Pathfinder setting, there's some irony for ya), here's my first impressions:
It still is the Realms. Sort of. The Realms have a rich history, and 100 more years is simply more history of draw on.
That said, I finished Azure Bonds yesterday, for the first time in, what, 18-19 years, and this new beast feels different somehow. This may not be a bad thing.
Good stuff:
Adventure right from the start is a good idea, if you buy into "new blood" line of reasoning. I like that they putting Loudwater, instead of Elminster, in front.
Lots of adventure hooks. I really want to play in this world. The new Dalelands/Cormyr/Sembia/Myth Drannor/Shade is indeed kewl.
A slightly larger map. The inclusion of the Hordelands and Mûrghom is nice.
I really dig the 4e layout. Maps! In the book!
Bad stuff:
Loudwater. A starter town needs to grap you, and the adventure seem lacking. This chapter desperately needs more/better art and a better map. The stats chews up to much space, I would have preferred an adventure designed around what's available the Monster Manual.
The Returned Abeir map looks like a croissant.
The designers (or editors, from what I've read somewhere) should have sticked to the established races (sun elves, moon elves and so on). A lot of the realms flavor is lost here.
Some of the new names does not sound like Realms names. "Bloomridge" anyone? It really does sound like a NYC district.
The designer use a sledgehammer when smaller tools would have been sufficient. A century is a long time, you don't need the Spellplague to reboot the setting. Smaller, logical changes, like Imperial Cormyr, is much more rewarding.
Conclusion?
Can't tell yet. Give me a month. But there is a number of things I really wish was done differently, so this may very well be my last FR game purchase. I may want to play in this world, but it has to compete by previous (clearly superior?) editions of the same setting, and new settings. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 28 Aug 2008 14:44:04 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:38:28
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Loudwater is something else that I've recently griped with friends about. Is it me, or does it share more than a little in common with Paizo's Rise of the Runelords #1 Burnt Offerings.
A bunch of goblins attack a small town as part of a larger plan. Most are fighters, but the leader is a inspiring the group with it words and, if brought down, the goblins will run...
Granted, because of the very nature of goblins attacking a town as being generic, but I think is highly coincidental that the first adventure they use to introduce players to the Realms sounds a lot like Paizo's adventure that's become extremely popular for giving goblins new life. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Loudwater is something else that I've recently griped with friends about. Is it me, or does it share more than a little in common with Paizo's Rise of the Runelords #1 Burnt Offerings.
I noticed, but did not mind. I can't go wrong when you steal from the best. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 15:04:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Granted, because of the very nature of goblins attacking a town as being generic, but I think is highly coincidental that the first adventure they use to introduce players to the Realms sounds a lot like Paizo's adventure that's become extremely popular for giving goblins new life.
I would say that probably is just a coincidence. Goblins attacking a town as part of a larger plan (that they may not even know about) is a very widely used adventure hook. In this case, you could more easily fault the adventure for being "the same old same old" than you can fault it for trying to get a piece of Paizo's pie. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 22:00:22
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| If you did find the content in the 4e FRCG satisfying, I encourage you to vote; right now there are only 11 of you. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 22:39:17
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Here's the review I just submitted through amazon.com (so naturally it's written for a more general audience than the scribes here, but its still representative of my thoughts):
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This book reminds me of nothing so much as the original, much beloved "gray box" that was the first introduction to Ed Greenwood's marvelous fantasy world for tens of thousands of readers two decades ago. Here again, at long last, is literally untold danger and mystery and excitement. Here's an invitation to join in a fresh creative enterprise with other players and game masters, readers and writers--an invitation composed of stories, legends, and sometimes, threats.
Over the years, the Realms setting has been enriched by the contributions of hundreds of writers, designers, artists, editors, and coders. But that enrichment came at the price of codification. Every corner was mapped, every character measured, by what came to be competing, overlapping, and sometimes contradictory rules sets. The bewildering amount of accumulated material threatened to collapse the Realms under their own weight.
Now, the clarion call of the new fourth edition of Dungeons & Dragons has been sounded in the Realms, and the Realms are reborn. Now is the time for new adventures and adventurers, new stories and storytellers, new legends. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 00:56:33
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| Not to start an argument or anything (and I respect your opinion), but I have to disagree that every corner of the Realms was mapped, if by that you mean fully developed. Many areas of the Realms received very little detail, and many of those same areas (especially in the Shining South) were the areas that received extensive and IMO inelegant "pruning". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 29 Aug 2008 00:59:49 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 01:23:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Not to start an argument or anything (and I respect your opinion), but I have to disagree that every corner of the Realms was mapped, if by that you mean fully developed. Many areas of the Realms received very little detail, and many of those same areas (especially in the Shining South) were the areas that received extensive and IMO inelegant "pruning".
You're right, of course. Maybe inserting "For some, it seemed that" before "Every corner..." would both capture the feeling that I, for one, certainly had while acknowledging that it was just that--an impression, or feeling. I'll see if I can edit that in to the amazon review while leaving this message as an after-the-fact edit for my post here. Thanks for the note!
(Edited to add that, yep, amazon let me do just that.) |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
Edited by - Christopher_Rowe on 29 Aug 2008 01:27:55 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 01:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
You're right, of course. Maybe inserting "For some, it seemed that" before "Every corner..." would both capture the feeling that I, for one, certainly had while acknowledging that it was just that--an impression, or feeling. I'll see if I can edit that in to the amazon review while leaving this message as an after-the-fact edit for my post here. Thanks for the note!
(Edited to add that, yep, amazon let me do just that.)
You're welcome. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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lockdar
Acolyte
Netherlands
18 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 07:43:46
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I've just finished reading the new FRCS and I was dissapointed and surprised at the same time. The dissapointment part is someting that has been covered back and forth in this scroll; very little descriptive text, only small parts of every area detailed ect.
Why am I surprised? When I first aquired the 4th edtion core books we tried a couple of games and I realized I didn't really like the game. It didn't feel like D&D for me personally. But now, when I read the Campaign Setting I find that I shouldn't be judging 4th Edition as a followup to 3.x D&D. The new edition is a game completely seperate from the original editions from now on for me, and it works perfectly. Fearun and Toril have changed so dramaticly that comparing it to it's older versions would be unfair in my opinion. The FRCS is an exellent tool for someone who just started playing D&D, he has more then enough information and background to put together a campaign and can always buy the PDF's of the older versions for more background and story. |
Save yourself a penny for the ferryman. |
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Adlon
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 13:36:57
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100% dissatisfied. The feel, the layout, well, all of my dislikes have already been stated. Seems 3.5 gave us the last of the true Ed Greenwood feel.
The book itself should have never been published in it's current format. I'd feel ripped off had I not borrowed a copy. The Great Dale preview shows only more tripe from 4e FR. |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 05:59:00
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For the first time since 1987 and the gray box, i returned a FR book to the store today. It's a sad day for me because reading about FR had become a part of my life and i'll miss expecting with anticipation the next release. I'm sure by now you know that i voted very disatisfied to the poll.
Funny thing is, i replaced my pruchase with the Pathfinder Campaign setting and i think i found some of the spark i had when i read the gray box the first time. I don't think i'll play in any other world than Toril but this new Golarion makes for a very good read.
21 years with FR products made for one heck of a ride though... I'll dearly miss reading about it now. |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
Edited by - Patrakis on 31 Aug 2008 05:59:31 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 06:09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Adlon
100% dissatisfied. The feel, the layout, well, all of my dislikes have already been stated. Seems 3.5 gave us the last of the true Ed Greenwood feel.
The "Returned Abeir" chapter has more "Ed Greenwood" feel than anything in the 3E FRCS.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 06:18:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Adlon
100% dissatisfied. The feel, the layout, well, all of my dislikes have already been stated. Seems 3.5 gave us the last of the true Ed Greenwood feel.
The "Returned Abeir" chapter has more "Ed Greenwood" feel than anything in the 3E FRCS.
Agreed. I am digging this portion of the FRCG. Additionally, I feel that there will be many more uses for Returned Abeir than Maztica had (IMHO).
Anyone know who wrote or had a major hand in writting which portions of the FRCG? |
Edited by - scererar on 31 Aug 2008 06:19:24 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 06:24:59
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Anyone know who wrote or had a major hand in writting which portions of the FRCG?
"Returned Abeir" is supposed to come directly from Ed's pen. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 31 Aug 2008 06:25:11 |
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How do you feel about the 4e FRCG?
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