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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 16:39:03
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I know this isn't exactly an FR question, but I know some of the Scribes around here could still help me.
I bought a few PS products when the setting first came out, and was intrigued by it, but didn't get any of the stuff that came later. From what I understand, there was some sort of 'faction War' - what product did that take place in? 
Also, I vaguely recall reading an update on the factions/setting in a Dragon article, IIRC - any idea what issue that was in?
I'm trying to put a little something together to explain the 4e changes to the Cosmology using the factions as a basis, but I really don't know enough to do so. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Aug 2008 19:02:11
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 16:53:17
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Here's a little something I saved from the old planewalker.com archives:-
SPOILERS for Faction War --
"Faction War
Faction war is, in short, goodbye and farewell to Sigil-based Planescape. The factions that survive the Lady´s ultimatum move out of Sigil and multiversal politics at large. I have serious problems with this adventure. Actually, however an all-out war would be interesting, I don’t think this could reasonably happen this way at all. The authors try to explain that the factions were swept along in the frenzy of war, but how could this apply evenly to the Xaositects and the Guvners!
Basically, Factol Darkwood tries to enslave the lady and conquer the city and plays the other factions (notably the Doomguard vs. the Harmonium) against each other. And all the factions happily comply with him. Some of the factions are decimated (Doomguard, Harmonium, Fated), some leave Sigil en masse (Guvners, Athar, Harmonium [those remaining], Dustmen [kinda], Anarchists) some split up (Mercykillers), two join forces and leave (Godsmen, Signers), a few remain but stop calling themselves factions (Sensates, Bleakers, Indeps, Xaositects). The Ciphers survive almost completely unscathed (although their function changes). All of the factols except two are either killed (Sarin, Haskar) or sent to the mazes. Darkwood sells Alishon Nilesia to fiends and he is severely punished (used) by the Lady of Pain. All in all it seems that the Lady herself acted as a catalyst to the war. The guilds mentioned are the recreated guilds that ruled Sigil before the Great Upheaval.
In a sense, FW was a final attempt at moving the setting\'s focus onto the Outer Planes instead of Sigil. While I don\'t think the product was excellent (it was rushed and much too short), I did find several interesting elements - the Mercykillers schism and the new "faction" that was created on the Outlands. Basically, I think FW would have been better as a boxset with more diverse angles leading to the eventual full-scale conflict. Darkwood was definitely used by the Lady, but his involvement wore thin over the course of the story. I think the authors tried to close the episode with a sense that new things would spring forth both inside the Cage and out. Unfortunately, we will never know the direction that Wizards could have taken.
Factional effects of FW:
3 factions cease to exist - Believers of the Source, Mercykillers, and Signers. Their beliefs are dropped along with all abilities and privileges. (However, the ex-Godsmen and Signers along with a few Sensates join together to form a new philosophy group called the Mind\'s Eye and move to the Outlands.)
6 factions move out of the Cage - Athar, Doomguard, Fated, Guvners, Hardheads, and Rev League.
6 factions remain in Sigil but disband - Bleakers, Dustmen, Indeps, Sensates, Ciphers, and Xaositects.
Note: the adventure aftermath says that the Lady outlaws the factions\' power structure, not belief in their ideals. Basically, it\'s keep the faith, but not the organization.
The Mercykillers split into two groups - Sodkillers and the Sons of Mercy. Sons of Mercy are "good guy" types that want criminals to be treated fairly but learn from their crimes. Sodkillers seek to remove criminal elements and will do whatever necessary (regardless of alignment).
Here are some of the new guilds that are formed:
Minder\'s Guild - ex-Sodkiller group that acts as a bodyguard/merc guildhouse.
Sigil Advisory Council - ex-Cipher group that acts as a loose committee to help setup the new government in the Cage.
Entertainment guild - ex-Sensates running the Civic Festhall.
What could have happened in the aftermath?
I have never hidden the fact that I don\'t like Faction War, but let\'s say it happened! Now, let\'s say that after several months of Sigil without the factions, it becomes clear (due to the number of factioneers who must pass through Sigil whether they like it or not) that the Lady\'s decree was not a permanent one, and one by one, the factions return to Sigil. The melting pot has been severely stirred, however, and everything has changed. No longer will the factions play as big a role in the day-to-day running of Sigil, but will instead focus more on the rest of the Outer Planes, using Sigil as a base. Of course, some of the factions take up their old positions. For example: the Harmonium returns to their law-keeping, and Sigil welcomes them back because everybody is already sick of the Sons of Mercy.
What Factions might return? What will their role be?
The Bleak Cabal never left, and simply take up their name again. Same with the Dustmen and they even send a group of bashers into the mazes to rescue Factol Skall. Erin Montgomery escapes the mazes and returns to head one of the politically strongest factions. Jamis becomes the new factol for the Guvners, who, along with the Harmonium, form a welcome stability to war-ravaged Sigil. Rhys, who managed to avoid the mazes, leads the Ciphers to new heights. The Transcendent Order takes over the Hall of Speakers and plays a major role in the rebuild of trust for the Factions. The Xaositects weren\'t much affected by the war; they just wander back to the Hive. Neither were the Free league, who are now stronger than ever (much like after the previous faction war).
Other factions are more severely affected. The Mind\'s Eye probably replaces both the Signer and the Godsmen. The Son\'s of Mercy change their role to just punishing and overseeing the prison. The Fated probably aren\'t very welcome in Sigil and leave an opening for a new faction, perhaps one of the sects? Both the Anarchists and Doomguard were pretty devastated. What will become of them?
And finally, do any more factols return from the maze? From the dead? Remember that this is a theoretical situation.
Some stupid factioneers could return to the city. However, as soon as organized factional meetings began I think that there would suddenly be a large number of mutilated bodies in the streets of Sigil. The Lady has a nasty habit of leaving examples. Perhaps another Harbinger House fiasco would be in order - only in the Hive, or the Hall of Records, or even the Festhall.
I think the Hardheads would take a large amount of time debating the issue and most would eventually turn their focus to "enlightening" the Prime. Covert operatives would try to see if Sigil is clear, but most never return (payback by ex-Free Leaguers is a bitch).
Bleakers didn\'t really matter before so they wouldn\'t really threaten the Lady\'s decree and Dustmen perform a role somewhat similar to the Dabus. The new guild system would fit perfectly around them (although they wouldn\'t really care about it).
I wouldn\'t bet against Montgomery to get out of the Mazes (they might actually become a "rather" nice place with her in charge). But, I seriously doubt she would step foot back in Sigil should she get out. She would most likely turn her attention to defending Tir na Og from the Blood War (and a very devious arcanaloth I know of).
Most Guvners would prefer the orderly confines of Mechanus. However, I think a few would want to expand the role (and importance) of Automata in the Outlands. The removal of the factions from Sigil would make the Outlands a much more influential place and the Fraternity would quickly pick up on this. This could potential cause some conflict with the Hardheads should they chose a similar path. With the fragile deals of Sigil removal, the Guvners might seek to develop an "enlightened" warrior caste.
Rhys understood that some type of "change" was needed - hence her abrupt departure and survival. I think she would continue to advise the guild system and be a foundation for the development of a "new" Sigil. The Order may find the Outlands (and rural surroundings) more suited to their thoughts and abilities. They are somewhat of a wildcard.
Chaosmen would thrive anywhere, just give them air and few brain-box cells! They may actually amuse the Lady.
The Free League would love to officially become a non-faction. Many would see little change in their lives, except the removal of harassment from the Hardheads. Unregulated trade could well flourish in the Cage.
The Mind\'s Eye would continue to focus on the Outlands as their new home. Sigil would be a sign of the past and many would refuse to go back there. A few Godsmen could even make their way to the prime and try to form some kind of church.
Most Fated would go underground and emerge in new roles (remember they\'re basically survivalists). The Lady didn\'t say that taxes or property ownership were abolished!
Rev Leaguers would probably be the first to try and break the Lady\'s decree. Their bodies are the ones I first mentioned. Anarchists would remain in some form, but in smaller, more fragmented cells. Any suggestion that they are somehow overall linked (assuming you believed this in the first place) will be totally dismissed and taken as pure screed.
The Doomguard flee to their planes of interest and continue their love of decay. Splinter groups within the Doomguard begin warring and spread destruction around the gatetowns."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Aug 2008 16:59:16 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 16:55:26
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| As for the PLANESCAPE updates in DRAGON, there were actually two -- one in #287, which featured PrCs for some of the Factions, and the other was the "Campaign Classics" issue of #315, which featured updates for the Factions exiled from Sigil after the events of Faction War. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Aug 2008 16:56:15 |
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Ladejarl
Seeker
Norway
55 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 18:30:38
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| Faction War is a bit like Spellplague: Planescape come to think of it? |
"There should be much less violence, and more nudity and kinkiness in the world." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:06:16
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WOW!
Thanks for all that Sage - that will really help! 
Faction Wars = PS Spellplague... LOL
One last question which has NOTHING to do with the above (but I don't want to start yet another thread) -
Is there a comprehensive list/index of FR articles for Dungeon and Dragon magazines?
I'm more interested in a Dungeon one - especially anything written by Ed - but I also need a better one for Dragon... the one I have is incomplete (its a number of years out-dated and missing the last hundred issues or so). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Aug 2008 19:07:25 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:35:50
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| Try the DragonDex, at least for the Realms articles. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 20:37:22
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Actually, I found that one yesterday. 
Thanks anyway, though.
The older one I have was more 'streamlined' (therefore easier to use), so I was hoping I could find an update of that one (I think it was compiled by one of the old designers).
Anyhow, there is nothing like that Dungeon Magazine?
I could have sworn I came across one once.
I found a generic one that lists EVERY article, but I was hoping to find something more Realms-specific. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 21:06:36
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I just came back here to post that I had found one...
And thats the same one I found.
Sorry to have troubled you, guys, and thanks for all your help.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 21:11:40
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| Huh. Cool. So I can ignore later Planescape lore then and stick to the stuff I have? That'll save some cash (which I'll promptly spend on 3e FR stuff as research material for a 4e campaign ...) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 22:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Colman
So I can ignore later Planescape lore then and stick to the stuff I have?
Of course, you don't need anyone's permission to do that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 23:07:00
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| Well of course I didn't but this has saved me thinking about it. That's always good. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 23:46:16
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I'm looking for some SPOILER information about the following Planescape products which I hope to use in (grand) conjunction with my FR campaign, and I would appreciate it if those who are knowledgeable about them would post some DM-level information about them -- beyond the cover blurbs, please:
The Eteranl Boundary
The Deva Spark
Harbinger House
Something Wild
Doors to the Unknown.
Specifically, what's the big pay-off, chant-wise? What's a berk learn in these adventures, eh?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 18 Aug 2008 23:51:48 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 00:20:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ladejarl
Faction War is a bit like Spellplague: Planescape come to think of it?
You are absolutely correct. I'm waiting for Hasbro to unleash the deathblow for Spelljammer, too, just in case anyone might still be having fun playing in that setting without giving Hasbro its pound of flesh (and blood and lymph, too).
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 01:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'm looking for some SPOILER information about the following Planescape products which I hope to use in (grand) conjunction with my FR campaign, and I would appreciate it if those who are knowledgeable about them would post some DM-level information about them -- beyond the cover blurbs, please:
The Eteranl Boundary
The Deva Spark
Harbinger House
Something Wild
Doors to the Unknown.
Specifically, what's the big pay-off, chant-wise? What's a berk learn in these adventures, eh?
Hmmm... I won't make any promises, but I do think I've still got some old campaign notes from the times I ran each adventure that may prove useful for you. I'll take a look through my older PS notebooks [though, I've got a feeling they're all in storage and, thus, will be largely inaccessible at the moment]. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Planescape Update
