| Author |
 Topic  |
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 05:42:18
|
"The continent of Faerun in 1479 DR is not the cosmopolitan grid of trade routes it was of old. Disasters, rampaging monsters, and the rise of evil empires have change the landscape. Many roads of have fallen into disrepair, several ports are high and dry, and numerous once-vital cities are now empty shells or drowned ruins.
But to the bold, adventuring into the darkness between points of light remain an exciting and reward enterprise. Traveling cross-country is dangerous and often difficult-the follow means of transportation are safer and easier."
I thought they said the Realms weren't a points of light setting?
|
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 15 Aug 2008 19:32:00
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 07:11:53
|
They did...  I have a host of anger at that, but I'm going to keep it to myself, as it's not the Realms I intend on playing in, ever. Not my taste.
As a side note: Those of you happy with the new changes have fun with them. I am happy for those who are truly excited, although I have no love for the new edition.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
 |
|
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 07:55:26
|
So an anouncement made about 4e was not respected later on? How astonishing ...  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 08:24:56
|
| Rich Baker said the 'points of light' approach wasn't being applied uniformly to the Realms (I can't access wizards.com to find the exact comment). Chris Perkins said '4E FR embraces [that concept], at least in part'. Let us know whether you think the rest of the book bears out that quote. |
|
|
|
Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 09:30:32
|
| Well, Cormyr doesn't seem points-of-light, or at least no more than ever it was. Well, the Eastern reaches have got a bit wilder and those trade routes are compromised. |
|
|
|
RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 09:47:42
|
| Lie ? Wotzy? Noooo ! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:26:55
|
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
By the way, Urza, your title is a bit confusing, with the double negative. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Aug 2008 14:27:22 |
|
|
|
Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:33:43
|
| The Dales were pretty much set-up that way from the start: civilised lands with woods and mountains a short distance away filled with all sorts of monsters, ruins and what-not. Leave the main road and you'd better be ready for a fight ... |
|
|
|
Kes_Alanadel
Learned Scribe
USA
326 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 14:41:10
|
*Shrug* I'm not surprised. Wotc has lied to their customers in the past, why change now?
'No, we aren't planning 4e.' 'We won't make Faerun a points of light setting.'
~Kes |
Ack! I seem to have too much blood in my coffee stream!
When did 'common sense' cease to be common? |
|
|
|
MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 18:27:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
Of course it was |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:21:24
|
Personally, I thought it was FAR MORE POL before - they created several new Kingdoms, and even broke the Thayans in half (creating two such groups).
The Anauroch is no longer an empty desert, Cormyr has now spread its borders deeper in the 'wild regions', Elturgard is a new Kingdom in The North, as is the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Baldur's Gate has become the 'New York City' of the Realms, Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released, the Imaskari are making a return in the Raurin, Unther is no longer a war-torn battleground, etc, etc.. In 3e and earlier, there were NEVER any clear-cut borders between Realms; now there are...
I really want to play in a POL setting; thats why I'll be using all my 3e material.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 15 Aug 2008 19:22:32 |
|
|
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:33:22
|
| It seems very point of light to me.. the countries themselves seem much smaller and more defined.. leaving big gaps in between. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 19:33:37
|
Generally it has been a tendency for the last ten years to turn everything on its head, so I am not really that surprised with what is happening. And then there is the shrinking of the map for 3ed. This caused much of the "point of light" feeling to disappear, as the areas cut were mostly large stretches of wilderness. Although I must admit that I felt that it started already in the late 2ed. with Luruar. The wilderness feeling of the North was lessened a bit with that.
Come to think of it why does the description above sound like the description of the original Dragonlance setting. Strange, I feel I am actually tempted to buy the books. |
|
|
|
Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 20:36:14
|
I still - coming from 2e ten years ago to 4e - can't get my head around the map shrink.
What exactly did they do? |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 22:34:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Can you give some more detail about that? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 22:37:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
I still - coming from 2e ten years ago to 4e - can't get my head around the map shrink.
What exactly did they do?
The 3E map shrink? Basically, exactly what Jorkens said--pieces of the Realms that were deemed "empty space" were snipped out of the map, making the Realms feel more "crowded". WotC basically valued the opposite of what they do now--they wanted the population centers to be closer and more easily traveled to. They also emphasized the use of portals in the Realms, making the world even smaller for PCs.
Funny, how things change. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 15 Aug 2008 22:38:57 |
|
|
|
Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 23:32:11
|
| The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2008 : 23:53:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Can you give some more detail about that?
I can't. 
I was told by someone 'in the know' (LFR) that Memnon was released and now controls most of Calimshan. That would mean that Calim would have also been released, but I have no clue weather he survived as well. It would also mean the desert - artificially created by those two's imprisonment - would start to become fertile again. This is supported by the fact that the Chult excerpt map clearly showed forest in Calimshan where none existed before.
And thats all I got.
I plan on doing my own Frankenstein version, combining parts of the 4e setting and new continental outline with older material, NPCs, and locales, and then set the whole thing in 1390 DR - post-Spellplague, but soon enough after for me to Cherry-pick from both.
And only the folks I say died actually die IMG.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 16 Aug 2008 00:05:48 |
|
|
|
questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1653 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 11:27:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The Faerun of old already was a points of light setting in many areas. If a PoL style of play was desired, it was possible to use the old Realms setting for that.
Agreed!
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The Dales were pretty much set-up that way from the start: civilised lands with woods and mountains a short distance away filled with all sorts of monsters, ruins and what-not. Leave the main road and you'd better be ready for a fight ...
Case in Point! |
Edited by - questing gm on 16 Aug 2008 11:32:29 |
|
|
|
Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 14:32:59
|
Good calls by Markustay & Jorkens!
As Rinonalyrna said: the 1e Grey Box Realms was perfect for a points of light style campaign setting.
I was actually looking forward to seeing how the Points of Light philosophy might work in 4e FR, and was hoping for a return to a 1e style landscape and campaign feel which suits a PoL setting perfectly: lots of scattered city states with long, dangerous trade routes in between; isolated Dales with gloomy wild woods all about; struggling independent cities in the wild of the Savage Frontier perched on the bones of dozens of failed former realms; a dangerous Anauroch bereft of civilisation, and few large nations to lord it over Faerun. The Grey Box exuded this style of setting & play, right down to the fantastic Current Clack entries, which spoke about far away events with the right amount of PoL-style ignorance and wonder.
Instead in 4e FRCS we see a bloated Cormyr, Sembia/Netheril an empire with evil undercurrents (albeit with a couple of cities broken away), Vaasan kingdom (though interesting), and fewer interesting areas with a number of struggling city states (no Vilhon Reach, Cities of the North Coast, Western Heartlands).
An oppurtunity wasted perhaps to both drive home the core 4e world philosphy, and also appeal to diehard FR fans...
Shilo |
|
|
|
ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 15:58:49
|
The Realms in 3E were a points of light setting in many places. There were places that were safer but even the safest places had dangerous elements.
I'm not sure what Wizards means when they say "A Points of Light setting" but if they are referring to a setting where setting up a trade convoy is a dangerous mission, where wandering off the beaten path is dangerous, where outside of the city walls (and inside!) is dangerous.
Well, the Realms is that. Already, without 4E. |
|
|
|
Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 16:35:18
|
I always thought this whole "Points of Light" concept was already in gaming and one of the main points of gaming, and what DMs strived to setup in their games. When they announced it as being a new model by which to run games off of, the first thing I thought of was "They're just now discovering this?"  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 18:04:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:33:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I'm not sure what Wizards means when they say "A Points of Light setting" but if they are referring to a setting where setting up a trade convoy is a dangerous mission, where wandering off the beaten path is dangerous, where outside of the city walls (and inside!) is dangerous.
My personal opinion, based on all I have read so far, is that PoL refers to all of the above (being inside a "point of light" doesn't guarantee safety and security, but of course that's always been true, everywhere.
I would add that PoL implies that "beaten paths" are few and far in-between. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Aug 2008 16:33:57 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:35:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I always thought this whole "Points of Light" concept was already in gaming and one of the main points of gaming, and what DMs strived to setup in their games. When they announced it as being a new model by which to run games off of, the first thing I thought of was "They're just now discovering this?"
I agree with that. However, I would say there is a push (in the "core setting", at least) for a world that's even less civilized. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 16:36:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms?
I'd also like to point out that many people on the current design team were there back in 2000. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:52:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
The more I learn about 3e realms the happier I am to have skipped them.
I am confused, are you stating that you are glad you skipped the 3e Realms but are happy with the butchery of the 4e Realms? Or just that you are happy that you skipped the 3e Realms?
I'd also like to point out that many people on the current design team were there back in 2000.
Yes, but unfortunately at least one went from a driving force to someone they asked questions of, listened to kindly then still did their own thang! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 02:24:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I plan on doing my own Frankenstein version, combining parts of the 4e setting and new continental outline with older material, NPCs, and locales, and then set the whole thing in 1390 DR - post-Spellplague, but soon enough after for me to Cherry-pick from both.
And only the folks I say died actually die IMG.
That's almost what I'm doing... but why on Toril (leave Abeir out of this, please!) would you use the new map, given the time and energy you have invested in your own 3E-era map? Mind you, you posted this a month ago; have you since changed your mind? I know you've recently talked about going forth with plans to map Anchorome (which apparently no longer exists in "canon" 4E), so what gives?
Anyway, I'm using the old physical geography, no RSE, but keeping the renewal of Netheril / death of Anauroch and the refounding of Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr (yes, I'm using the proper name for the realm). War between Cormyr and Sembia will happen, probably along much the same lines as presented (Shadovar conquer Sembia and use it as a launching pad for invasion of the surrounding territory). On which note: Is the Cormyr-Sembia war covered in a novel series, because there's not much said about it in the new FRCG (from what little I've been able to read; I refuse to buy it, and it still burns my skin to touch it), but it sounds like the *real* reason to blow everything up was to eliminate all semblance of a backstory to the campaign. As others have pointed out, there were plenty of new places to explore... *how* many continents on the sketch map in the 3E FRCS were marked "Unknown Lands"? The only reason to blow it all up was to make the Realms "not Ed's" any more. Anyway, I'm done with the rant; I was trying not to rant, but it's difficult where the 4E Realms are concerned.
To those who like the 4E Realms (and/or the 4E ruleset, for that matter), I say have fun, because in the end, that's what it's all about. I and our group's other DM had already diverged our collective timeline far from where the "official" one ended up anyway, but a number of events fit nicely with our ideas, and we fit them into the background. The grandchildren of Azoun IV are *completely* different from canon, not least in their ages; the oldest (Azoun V, of course) is already ten years old when his grandfather dies. Vangerdahast is still the Mage Royal of Cormyr, and he is training his (and Qilue's) daughter to succeed him. Szass Tam is Autarch of Thay, Dambrath has taken over the Shaar, and the risen Imaskari have conquered Mulhorand and the former Unther. Plenty of evil afoot. Oh, and we're using 3.5 rules, with gradual integration of and changeover to Pathfinder. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Sep 2008 02:26:54 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 15:27:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Is the Cormyr-Sembia war covered in a novel series, because there's not much said about it in the new FRCG...
Nope, not yet at least.
|
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 15:34:34
|
| I think it gets some pages in the forthcoming Shadowrealm: The Twilight War Book III . |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2008 : 18:35:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Calimshan is no longer mostly desert - the Dgen have been released...
Wait, what?
Calimshan is gone? That stinks, I liked it as a setting. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Was it not a Points of Light setting? *spoilers*
