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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 12:04:55
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I'm trying to understand how sorcerers and wizards work in Maztica; do they even exist? Seemed like they had pluma and hishna instead, which seemed to utlise divine magic instead. Also, are their priests like their Faerūnian counterparts, spellwise?
Also, if I've posted this in the wrong forum, could someone move the topic?
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Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Edited by - Khaelieth on 30 Jun 2008 13:18:54
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 14:51:48
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I think this area is fine for your question... I'm not familiar with my Maztica stuff, though, so I can't help you. 
The Maztica boxed set is available for free from the Wizards downloads page. Have you read that material? |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 15:02:25
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Sorry, this question is void since Maztica is being replaced....
Kidding aside, your best bet is to look at the Maztica product and find a way to adapt it to 3E and see from there. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 15:16:14
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| Looked there, and the Weave was replaced as the common way of accessing magic with hishna and pluma magic. The Weave still exists there, but the arcane spellcasters seemed non-existant. Read some stuff where the Kultakan general at one point gets killed by Darien (a wizard) who teleports in and blasts him to dust. |
Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 19:30:53
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| Ah yes, now that you post that, I do remember the weave not being present there and them having their own way of taping magic. Would have fit in well with 4E |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 01:14:13
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That was back in the 'weird days' when Maztica (the god, not the continent), Fate, and The Celestial Emperor were all Ao's equals - all OVERGODS! 
That means anywhere that a different Overgod had power - like those other three continents - Ao's gods (the Faerūnian Pantheon... plus the Mulahorandi & Untheric Groups) did not hold sway, and therefore Mystra's Weave did not touch those areas.
That was retconned back out pretty quickly - IIRC it was printed just once after the ToT, and then completely ignored (and re-written) after that.
So, in 3e, Hishna & Pluma magic would have accessed Raw Magic through some other conduit (the way Shadoweave magic does), and most likely that conduit was the Maztican Pantheon, and probably Maztica herself (so it would be like arcane magic accessed through divine channels).
It was simpler in 2e - we would just call all those 'primitive casters' Shaman and be done with (the closest thing to that in 3e, I think, would be the Witch class from the DMG, which is more like the original Shaman then the Spirit Shaman class).
Hishna and Pluma were also MUCH weaker then Arcane Magic (nobody does a Weave quite like Mystra) - in an old Maztica Redux thread we had going (for a very short time) at WotC, the few of us that were trying to 'fix' it came up with the fact that the "foreigners" hadn't come across any of the REAL powerful shaman, who lived in the deepest parts of the Jungle. In that way, we reconciled the 'weak' Maztican Magic in 3e simply by saying that Hishna and Pluma mages CAN cast higher level spells then allowed in RAW... its just that once you attain a certain level of power, you are indoctrinated into a 'secret fraternity' and live seperate from the normal Maztican population (sort of like 1st edition Druids).
Which means the invaders are eventually in for a rude awakening. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jul 2008 01:15:13 |
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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 07:58:47
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| Defininetely agree with gods being the conduit; Zaltec gave them hishna and Qotal (I think) gave them pluma magic. But how does this work for the clerics? |
Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2008 : 20:05:47
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In primitive societies divine and arcane magic were pretty much one and the same. I suppose in Maztica you could seperate them (in a weird way) and say that Arcane magic was available through the gods (Zaltec and Qotal as you mentioned), while 'Divine' magic was more spirit-based, and provided by Totem Spirits
I had started to develop a universal primitive-caster class to emulate all of the types of tribal casters (Shaman, Witchdoctors, medicinemans. Obi Women, Wiseman, Witch, etc...), and I imagine something very much akin to the way Shaiir magic worked in Al-Qadim.
In that system, the Shaiir sent his Gen to fetch a spell for him - I picture these tribal casters as having Totem Spitits or Familiars that would do basically the same thing. Also, their magic revolved around Charms, Fetishes, Totems, & Talismans, and quite a bit of it would be determined by the proximity of the tribal lands and local spirits (power-level would vary with range from source).
One day I may get back to that - I was mostly doing it for the Witchdoctor class for my now-defunct Kara-Tur project. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jul 2008 15:02:34 |
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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2008 : 09:25:42
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| Interesting! Was thinking of writing up some Maztica classes - Eagle and Jaguar warrior, as they use pluma and hishna magic. |
Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 17:03:00
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| I believe the Eagle-warriors were published as a prestige class within the pages of the Dragon-magazin, although i can't remember which issue. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:58:56
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I was going to put this in my own 'Maztica Epiphany' thread, but since this one is more current, it might as well go here -
I FINALLY got to see Apocalypto today on Cable, and it got me in the mood for some Maztican-style adventuring! Too bad it's gone now... 
Anyhow, I got a kick out of the ending - don't want to ruin it for everybody, but I kept thinking of the FR version of history, instead of the RW (which was really little more then a few name-changes... and not much of one, either).
I kept trying to spot the Drow Sorceress on the boat.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jul 2008 20:22:26 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2008 : 15:39:16
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Yeah, I loved Maztica, but not as much as my wife. She can't get enough of Mesoamerican/Aztec stuff, fiction or non-fiction. She's always wanted to play in Maztica.
That was the biggest draw to me when it came to the Forgotten Realms. I loved how there were so many cultures. Some unique, otherts based off real-world ones yet also very different and with its own fantasy-flavor twist. Kara-Tur and Maztica were both a bit TOO close to the original, but they both had great potential that no designer ever cared to explore (or were allowed to explore). Sadly, I despise the fact that WotC let both these Realms go to waste.
Forgotten Realms was definitely a game we all play and can have almost any sort of campaign we wanted and still keep it in the same exact world and even interconnect events if we wanted to.
Going back on topic, I would have to say don't even use Wizards. If you do, keep it in the Payit tribes because they're more advanced than the others and you can have it where the "wizards" of Payit are now discovering arcane methods. In fact, somewhere in the Maztica books they specifically state there once was a stronghold centuries ago in Maztica that was ruled by wizards. Keep it to just Sorcerers. Though have it where Sorcerers magic comes from "divine gift" or "chosen one" type power whereas for divine magic keep that with the Favored Soul (the wings part works perfect for the class, bat wing and feathered wing, could have a Favored Soul of Qotal with rainbow feathered wings) and the Spirit Shaman classes. If you use Cleric, modify it, probably using one of the ones in Unearthed Arcana.
I thought the Weave touched everything in Toril? That would have to be the same access in Maztica along with all the rest of Toril. I would have to say it was probably Ao that allowed the Weave to stay stable during the ToT affecting Faerun only. He is an Overgod after all.
Now you got me dreaming of a 3E Maztica guidebook...that'll never be cause WotC destroyed the Realms. I think I'll go cry again.  |
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Khaelieth
Learned Scribe
103 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 10:41:39
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| You can still access magic in Maztica; just that the natives don't for some reason. They use Hishna and Pluma magic, which is a sort of divine magic. When the Faerūnians arrived, they brought a wizard, who's got far superior magic. |
Also known on other forums as ChazSexington, Kusghuul, and Claudius.
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2008 : 22:06:56
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The Hishna and Pluma powers should be easy to convert into 4th Edition powers, which can be almost anything.
Someone should write a 4th edition conversion and submit it to Wizards for DnD insider. I think more than a few people would be interested in playing in a native American setting, even if Maztica has bit the dust in the Realms.
quote:
Originally posted by Khaelieth
You can still access magic in Maztica; just that the natives don't for some reason. They use Hishna and Pluma magic, which is a sort of divine magic. When the Faerūnians arrived, they brought a wizard, who's got far superior magic.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 02:23:33
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That would be great, except for one problem...
Maztica isn't there in 4e, so what would be the point in creating rules for it in 4e? 
Maztica was there in 2e, and we had 2e rules, and it was there in 3e, but we never got an update to the rules in 3e (except for a small Dragon article).
If anything, what we really needed was a set of 3e rules for the place, but thats a bit pointless now.
I'm sure whatever replaces Maztica will have its own new set of rules associated with it, so everyone should be fine with that.
And BTW, it's probably still going to be a 'Jungle' setting - else why did they also ditch Chult? I'm anticipating a Xendrik clone (not that that would be such a horrible thing - Xendrik was done well).
It also has a MORPG associated with it (Stormreach) - so what do you think of the chances of them putting the same locale in both settings, just so FR fans will be attracted to the online game?
Sounds ridiculous, I know... merging two worlds... <smirk> |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 02:32:16
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| Remember, Maztica hasn't been destroyed; merely shunted off to Abeir. If you really want to adventure there it's still possible (though you'll not find any official ongoing support for the sub-setting). |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 02:40:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Remember, Maztica hasn't been destroyed; merely shunted off to Abeir. If you really want to adventure there it's still possible (though you'll not find any official ongoing support for the sub-setting).
But that begs two questions...
1) Are there going to be ways to get to and/or from Abeir?
2) Are we going to get any info on Abeir? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jul 2008 02:40:54 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 21:29:38
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It would be counter-productive to their current game-plan to provide ANY details about Abeir.
As it stands, it is THE all-purpose plot to device for the designers to add in (or later take back) whatever the hell they want.
Considering that everything in core now must work in every official setting, I fully expect them to continue swapping out regions whenever another 'kewl' race appears in a splatbook. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 00:40:57
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The rules conversion could be for anyone who wants to play in a Native American setting, or anyone who chooses to keep Maztica around...
I think that Wizards axed it is pretty inconsequential to the usefulness of a conversion.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That would be great, except for one problem...
Maztica isn't there in 4e, so what would be the point in creating rules for it in 4e?
Maztica was there in 2e, and we had 2e rules, and it was there in 3e, but we never got an update to the rules in 3e (except for a small Dragon article).
If anything, what we really needed was a set of 3e rules for the place, but thats a bit pointless now.
I'm sure whatever replaces Maztica will have its own new set of rules associated with it, so everyone should be fine with that.
And BTW, it's probably still going to be a 'Jungle' setting - else why did they also ditch Chult? I'm anticipating a Xendrik clone (not that that would be such a horrible thing - Xendrik was done well).
It also has a MORPG associated with it (Stormreach) - so what do you think of the chances of them putting the same locale in both settings, just so FR fans will be attracted to the online game?
Sounds ridiculous, I know... merging two worlds... <smirk>
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Magic in Maztica
