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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 14:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Having worked on PHB2 a bit (just a small bit, really), I can say that calling it PHB2 is a classification decision only. If you liked the PHB2 of 3.5, you'll like this one. It is nothing more than combining the class and race information that would have appeared in a "Complete" or "Races of" style of book into one place. If you think about it, it's actually a rather handy way of doing things.
We are still getting base classes elsewhere. For example, in the FRCB which will have the swordmage and presumably Eberron will have the artificer, warforged etc.
I understand that the new "Complete" books, the "Power" books, won't have base classes or races but other player options. But will the upcoming undead or dragon books have classes? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 16:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I'm not ignoring what you wrote, I'm just saying there's no substance to your criticism.
But you're right, to. There are nicer ways to go about saying what I said in my earlier post.
Maybe you ought to give the 4E books a good read-through. Sure WotC's put a lot of info out there, but there's nothing much better then getting them in your hands to see what you've really got.
Dude, you are out of line. There are plenty of previews, excerpts, and detailed analyses and reviews of the 4e mechanics for anyone to make an informed decision as to whether they like it or not. And being downright insulting, condescending, and not replying to what was written is just rude. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
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Gwydion669
Acolyte
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 17:13:41
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Wha...?
Martial/Arcane/Divine "powerbooks"?
OMG! It's happening again! The splat ... OMG, the Splat is MULTIPLYING!
Run for your lives! Aieeeeeee! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 17:52:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwydion669
Wha...?
Martial/Arcane/Divine "powerbooks"?
OMG! It's happening again! The splat ... OMG, the Splat is MULTIPLYING!
Run for your lives! Aieeeeeee!
and soon they will followed by Primal, Ki, Shadow, and Psionic Power |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 17:53:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwydion669
Wha...?
Martial/Arcane/Divine "powerbooks"?
OMG! It's happening again! The splat ... OMG, the Splat is MULTIPLYING!
Run for your lives! Aieeeeeee!
and soon they will followed by Primal, Ki, Shadow, and Psionic Power |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 18:07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwydion669
Wha...?
Martial/Arcane/Divine "powerbooks"?
OMG! It's happening again! The splat ... OMG, the Splat is MULTIPLYING!
Run for your lives! Aieeeeeee!
Lol. Having spent so much money on 3.x splat books, I have no real desire to do a repeat performance with 4e. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 18:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
However, to defend Wooly, part of this has to do with WOTC's marketing approach. Rather than saying that the game is good, give it a shot, they have taken numerous shots at 3.5 to play it down with 4th edition coming out.
I didn't quite care for that aspect of WotC's marketing approach. I think 4E is good enough to stand on it's own--it's not necessary to put down 3E and those who enjoy it...and they have done that--for example, in the preview material, one of the designers said that if you've used a Profession check recently, your game isn't as much fun as it should be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 20:03:39
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Having worked on PHB2 a bit (just a small bit, really), I can say that calling it PHB2 is a classification decision only. If you liked the PHB2 of 3.5, you'll like this one. It is nothing more than combining the class and race information that would have appeared in a "Complete" or "Races of" style of book into one place. If you think about it, it's actually a rather handy way of doing things.
We are still getting base classes elsewhere. For example, in the FRCB which will have the swordmage and presumably Eberron will have the artificer, warforged etc.
I understand that the new "Complete" books, the "Power" books, won't have base classes or races but other player options. But will the upcoming undead or dragon books have classes?
Warforged is a race and they are already included in the MM. I'm sure there will be new options for them in the ECS, though I'm not an Eberron designer, so I can't say what those will be.
I suspect that Eberron will have the artificer class. I know FR will have the swordmage. With those exceptions, it's my understanding that new classes will appear in the PHB2/3/etc... I can't say for certain what's happening with psionics.
I only worked briefly on PHB2, so I couldn't say what exactly it includes, but I do know for certain that neither the Draconomicon (which I didn't work on, but did use extensively) or Open Grave (which I did work on extensively) include any new classes. Those books are definitely for the DM with only a small amount of material that might be of use to players. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 20:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Having worked on PHB2 a bit (just a small bit, really), I can say that calling it PHB2 is a classification decision only. If you liked the PHB2 of 3.5, you'll like this one. It is nothing more than combining the class and race information that would have appeared in a "Complete" or "Races of" style of book into one place. If you think about it, it's actually a rather handy way of doing things.
We are still getting base classes elsewhere. For example, in the FRCB which will have the swordmage and presumably Eberron will have the artificer, warforged etc.
I understand that the new "Complete" books, the "Power" books, won't have base classes or races but other player options. But will the upcoming undead or dragon books have classes?
Warforged is a race and they are already included in the MM. I'm sure there will be new options for them in the ECS, though I'm not an Eberron designer, so I can't say what those will be.
I suspect that Eberron will have the artificer class. I know FR will have the swordmage. With those exceptions, it's my understanding that new classes will appear in the PHB2/3/etc... I can't say for certain what's happening with psionics.
I only worked briefly on PHB2, so I couldn't say what exactly it includes, but I do know for certain that neither the Draconomicon (which I didn't work on, but did use extensively) or Open Grave (which I did work on extensively) include any new classes. Those books are definitely for the DM with only a small amount of material that might be of use to players.
So they aren't just 4e versions of the Dracomonicum and Libris Mortis as both featured a lot of stuff for players, i.e PrCs, races, base classes, etc |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2008 : 22:29:01
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quote:
If they were true base classes
Question is, what qualifies as a base class? Was the 2E PHB incomplete because it didn't have the Barbarian or Monk? I doubt it. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're not "a true base class".
quote:
That's fine. It still doesn't justify using 14 pages per class. If anything, that should require less pages per class.
The Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard have far more pages then that expended on them. So why the complaint? Tastes vary, but personally, I prefer every class having numerous options, rather then a third of the classes having a neverending stream of options, while the other third has next to none. And personally, I want my Fighters to do more then just "swing their sword". |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
Edited by - Venger on 02 Jul 2008 22:29:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2008 : 00:23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Having worked on PHB2 a bit (just a small bit, really), I can say that calling it PHB2 is a classification decision only. If you liked the PHB2 of 3.5, you'll like this one. It is nothing more than combining the class and race information that would have appeared in a "Complete" or "Races of" style of book into one place. If you think about it, it's actually a rather handy way of doing things.
We are still getting base classes elsewhere. For example, in the FRCB which will have the swordmage and presumably Eberron will have the artificer, warforged etc.
I understand that the new "Complete" books, the "Power" books, won't have base classes or races but other player options. But will the upcoming undead or dragon books have classes?
Warforged is a race and they are already included in the MM. I'm sure there will be new options for them in the ECS, though I'm not an Eberron designer, so I can't say what those will be.
I suspect that Eberron will have the artificer class. I know FR will have the swordmage. With those exceptions, it's my understanding that new classes will appear in the PHB2/3/etc... I can't say for certain what's happening with psionics.
I only worked briefly on PHB2, so I couldn't say what exactly it includes, but I do know for certain that neither the Draconomicon (which I didn't work on, but did use extensively) or Open Grave (which I did work on extensively) include any new classes. Those books are definitely for the DM with only a small amount of material that might be of use to players.
So they aren't just 4e versions of the Dracomonicum and Libris Mortis as both featured a lot of stuff for players, i.e PrCs, races, base classes, etc
You've got it right. They are very much DM focused books. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 00:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
Having worked on PHB2 a bit (just a small bit, really), I can say that calling it PHB2 is a classification decision only. If you liked the PHB2 of 3.5, you'll like this one. It is nothing more than combining the class and race information that would have appeared in a "Complete" or "Races of" style of book into one place. If you think about it, it's actually a rather handy way of doing things.
We are still getting base classes elsewhere. For example, in the FRCB which will have the swordmage and presumably Eberron will have the artificer, warforged etc.
I understand that the new "Complete" books, the "Power" books, won't have base classes or races but other player options. But will the upcoming undead or dragon books have classes?
Warforged is a race and they are already included in the MM. I'm sure there will be new options for them in the ECS, though I'm not an Eberron designer, so I can't say what those will be.
I suspect that Eberron will have the artificer class. I know FR will have the swordmage. With those exceptions, it's my understanding that new classes will appear in the PHB2/3/etc... I can't say for certain what's happening with psionics.
I only worked briefly on PHB2, so I couldn't say what exactly it includes, but I do know for certain that neither the Draconomicon (which I didn't work on, but did use extensively) or Open Grave (which I did work on extensively) include any new classes. Those books are definitely for the DM with only a small amount of material that might be of use to players.
So they aren't just 4e versions of the Dracomonicum and Libris Mortis as both featured a lot of stuff for players, i.e PrCs, races, base classes, etc
You've got it right. They are very much DM focused books.
Well, I look forward to both. It is an interesting take limiting the book to DMs and that kind of curtails the available buyers. I always thought those books sold for the PrCs and feats and the like |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Players Handbook 2
