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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 07:44:39
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I figured that this needed it's own topic.
So, without further ado, the new GSL has been released:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 07:48:01
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| And on that note, readin the FAQ, fansites are not part of the GSL but they will have their own license for specific uses, which, at the moment, WOTC hasn't released. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 08:36:42
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It'll take a while before I'm able to form an at least somewhat comprehensive picture of the GSL, but to me this is definitely looking more restrictive than I thought it would be.
Is it right that if what you publish (4E bard, or a more obscure class like 4E heartwarder) is later included as an official WOTC version in one of their own products, you have to stop selling the GSL product that included your 4E design of that creature/etc?
The 3E SRD didn't include some monsters like yuan-ti and giths, but the list seems to be larger this time. No drow or specific demons/devils, if I get it right. But what would happen if someone did a different 4E succubus? It's apparently not on the list of allowed creatures, but the concept and name go back centuries.
Also, you can only print stat blocks of original monsters, not ones in the MM? People can't make alternative character creator programs?
The biggest thing: can WOTC essentially revoke this GSL license at will? And basically: the GSL is best suited for publishing adventures using WOTC's 4E designs, not new material like your own race/class/monster/setting books?
These are just my scrambled "Not A Lawyer" first impressions. Any actual lawyers around here, or other people able to understand this kind of language better? |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 09:58:20
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There is already a rather long thread in Paizo's 4ed forum where Paizo's officials talked about the GSL (and why they were right in avoiding it)  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 16:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
It'll take a while before I'm able to form an at least somewhat comprehensive picture of the GSL, but to me this is definitely looking more restrictive than I thought it would be.
Is it right that if what you publish (4E bard, or a more obscure class like 4E heartwarder) is later included as an official WOTC version in one of their own products, you have to stop selling the GSL product that included your 4E design of that creature/etc?
It looks like, if you create a class that WOTC later defines, then you are, retroactively, "redefining" the class, so yeah, it seems like you would have to get rid of that product.
You could still make a class that is entirely new and hope that they never like the name and concept enough for their own purposes though.
quote:
The 3E SRD didn't include some monsters like yuan-ti and giths, but the list seems to be larger this time. No drow or specific demons/devils, if I get it right. But what would happen if someone did a different 4E succubus? It's apparently not on the list of allowed creatures, but the concept and name go back centuries.
Also, you can only print stat blocks of original monsters, not ones in the MM? People can't make alternative character creator programs?
Actually, you can't print stat blocks at all. All you can say is that the encounter will be with X which is in the Monster Manual, for example, and you can't print a page number (which was mentioned in the FAQ)
Also, you can't do anything called a succubus that alters the original succubus (so no "demon" succubi either) because that would be "redefining" a succubus. You could create a new form of succubus that exists in a different role than the original and make new stats, but it couldn't contradict anything in the original succubus entry.
quote:
The biggest thing: can WOTC essentially revoke this GSL license at will? And basically: the GSL is best suited for publishing adventures using WOTC's 4E designs, not new material like your own race/class/monster/setting books?
These are just my scrambled "Not A Lawyer" first impressions. Any actual lawyers around here, or other people able to understand this kind of language better?
Most of my opinions came from reading how the guys at Paizo and a few other boards took it, but I did get a few ideas of my own from reading it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 21:16:28
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Seriously, a company would have to be brain-dead to agree to all of that.
I understand where they are coming from - the original 'open source' was supposed to enable 3rd-parties to produce adventures, NOT settings and alternate rule-books, and WotC has simply learned from their mistakes.
Note that many of the folks behind the original 3e OGL left soon after to take advanteage of all of it's loopholes.
Perhaps the 3e OGl was't so much a 'mistake' as it was a way for certain people to 'break free' from WotC's shackles. If so, it was a brilliant move.
Anyhow, this document basically says that if you use their rules, and they like something you wrote, they can re-print as their OWN material and force you to stop selling yours. In essence - it forces all those creative people who left the company to work for them again... this time without pay.
Its ridiculous to create anything that another company can come along and claim ownership of, especially when that company is a very vindictive competitor. At the very least, they can 'torpedo' a smaller company that has several good 4e products coming down the pipe, just by pulling their license.
I can't wait for the doozy that the 'Fansite GSL' will be, if just some of the things I've heard are true -
The Candlekeep Compendium WON'T be able to contain lore from both 3e and 4e, making it impossible for this site to remain 'edition neutral'.
The funny thing is, the Hasbro Lawyers that are so busy making sure that NO-ONE gains anything off of them are also making sure that NO-ONE will support them. 
The GSL is so restrictive that WotC wil be the only ones following it.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2008 21:19:03 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 21:29:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I can't wait for the doozy that the 'Fansite GSL' will be, if just some of the things I've heard are true -
The Candlekeep Compendium WON'T be able to contain lore from both 3e and 4e, making it impossible for this site to remain 'edition neutral'.
I got that same idea when I read the thread over at Paizo's and contemplated what this will probably mean for the future Fansite GSL. I won't be suprised if it will turn out that there is no chance for the Candlekeep Compendium to produce 4ed material alongside with 3e lore. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 21:33:46
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By forcing us to make a choice, I gaurantee it won't be in their favor.
They seem to have mastered the art of 'bad fan-relations'... in fact, they've pretty much raised it to an art-form.
EDIT:
Okay, reading a bit more about this atrocity over at the Paizo Boards...
quote:
Originally posted at paizo by Vic Wertz, technical director
Under the OGL, we had to include this as part of the legal text if we referenced SRD material:
OGL wrote:
System Reference Document, Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
Here's the equivalent text required by the GSL:
GSL wrote:
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS 4th Edition PLAYER’S HANDBOOK, written by Rob Heinsoo,
Andy Collins, and James Wyatt; DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE, written by James Wyatt;
and MONSTER MANUAL, written by Mike Mearls, Stephen Schubert and James Wyatt
© 2008 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All rights reserved.
Well, I don't know if we'll actually publish anything under the GSL, but if we do, I think we'll add back the "based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson" bit.
Good for them - imagine trying to take credit for something built by Gary Gygax, especially so soon after his death.
For shame, WotC... for SHAME...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2008 22:14:25 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 22:21:51
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The GSL, requires approval for D&D, I did not see that clause that says if we take your class later you have to stop selling it and be in violation. That is an interpertation I did not make at first read.
The fact that they can change the GSL at anytime without notice and one using it must check from time to time to see if it is changed could very well make the lisense invalid because it is vauge.
I know people that use Internet once a day or less, but I also know people that turn on the Internet from time to time, which can be a week or longer. Also some cleaarly are still not connected those of course will not be effected if the only way the GSL was relessed was on the net.
Not sure who wrote it, but it in many ways appear to be based on credit card agreement type contract. We can change the rules anytime we want to.
3.0 in part did OGL because at the time there was not much profit in writing and selling adventures. The adventures pointed to the core and/or splat books to provide WotC the sales resulting from adventures.
Yes they learned much since then and if I recall correctly Hasbro purchased WotC after the rekease of 3.0, but before 3.5.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 01:48:43
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Yup.
They've learned how to drive loyal fans into the arms of another company. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 04:34:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
[snip] I won't be suprised if it will turn out that there is no chance for the Candlekeep Compendium to produce 4ed material alongside with 3e lore.
Excellent! something good is finally coming out of this debacle! a "3.5-only" Candlekeep would be a dream come true! I'm sick of all the 4E talk to be honest with you... |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 17:29:25
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My first and lingering response before, during, and after breezing through the so-called "D&D 4e SRD" - WTF  (and please remember that I am not usually given over to overtly strong language on this forums, even in acronym) |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 22:15:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
Is it right that if what you publish (4E bard, or a more obscure class like 4E heartwarder) is later included as an official WOTC version in one of their own products, you have to stop selling the GSL product that included your 4E design of that creature/etc?
That's not my interpretation at all. The way I read it, if a 3rd party publishes a bard, WotC is not later precluded from publishing its own version. In essence, other companies cannot copyright their mechanics. I think they fully expect companies to publish their own classes. Where it's iffy is with the whole "redefining terms" issue. I'm not certain how that's going to play out. I eagerly anticipate Scott and Linae giving a less legalese set of answers to all of the questions being asked. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 22:20:15
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
Is it right that if what you publish (4E bard, or a more obscure class like 4E heartwarder) is later included as an official WOTC version in one of their own products, you have to stop selling the GSL product that included your 4E design of that creature/etc?
That's not my interpretation at all. The way I read it, if a 3rd party publishes a bard, WotC is not later precluded from publishing its own version. In essence, other companies cannot copyright their mechanics. I think they fully expect companies to publish their own classes. Where it's iffy is with the whole "redefining terms" issue. I'm not certain how that's going to play out. I eagerly anticipate Scott and Linae giving a less legalese set of answers to all of the questions being asked.
A less legalese answer might also be less... legal? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 23:19:05
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A thrid party can not publish a Bard unless WotC gives permission based on how it reads to me. 3rd parties need approval to use the stat block as it reads to me.
3rd party needs WotC permission to put 4th Edition on their product as it reads to me.
I do agree with Mace's comment quote:
A less legalese answer might also be less... legal?
Oh enforcement policy might be different then the rules, that however does not make the rules go away. Policy can change at anytime, for that matter so can the rules.
I suspect the fansite policy also will include, this policy can be changed at anytime without notice.
No one can do business when the rules can be changed at anytime and that is the bottom line of the GSL.
The fansite policy likely will use the same type of fotmat that does make candlekeep at risk for ceise and disist order if it contains any 4th Edition copyright material.
I do dispute the statement that Candlekeep is froved to choose 3rd or 4th only because Candlekeep has supported 1st (not that FR had much in that Edition), 2nd and 3rd. It can also support discussion about forth as long as copyrighted matterial is properly cited. This looks like mostly rule interpertation, discussion of novels and events. The hazzard of 4th is quoting material. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 23:30:26
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Actually Eytan, if viewed in its entirety and looked at from that point of view (and three fan-lawyers have over at Paizo), you are not permitted to 'redefine' anything defined already in the 4e rules, AND the document (GSL) can be amended at anytime, can be made to include new information (through the SRD), and signers of the contract (GSL) are expected to comply RETROACTIVELY.
What that means in English is that if you create something called a "Cowabunga", and later WotC creates something called a "Cowabunga", then you have to get rid of yours ASAP, because you are now redefining something they own, and are in violation of the contract.
Because you agreed to that when you signed the license.
I'm not saying they would go out of their way to do that, but it could happen by accident, especially if someone uses terms like 'Bard' and 'Monk', or even 'Tinker' or 'Scout'.
And if does happen, that means a company would have to take their version and at the very least re-name it, which costs money most small companies just don't have, because they now have to re-format their print books.
The fact that there are also lines in there where you agree that you will not fight them in court, and if it does come to court, you wave your right to a trial, means you can't even fight them over such a conflict - you have already agreed that they are in the right in any such hypothetical conflict.
Because if you do fight them anyway, they can cancel the license, and torpedo your entire product line.
As written, the GSL is unusable and only a fool would sign it (and that was stated by the OWNERS of at least three companies, that I know of).
The only safe thing a person can do with that license is create some very generic adventure modules, which is what they wanted with the 3e OGL (can't begrudge them that). If you want to do more, like create a setting, then you would be better off forgetting about that 'open' license, and hammer out a private license between yourself and WotC (which I am sure at least one company will do).
All I'm saying is that license protects WotC, not the licensee in any way. Since WotC wrote it, that makes perfect sense - many consider it a 'first offer'.
It also effectively puts an end to 'open source' as far as D&D goes, which was what made me fall in love with RPGing all over again. If I want any 4e material, it means I am stuck getting it from WotC, and I really don't want to put all my eggs in one basket... especially one so full of holes.
After reading the GSL, I was going to return my 4e PHB (thank god I didn't buy the other two), but decided to just give it to my son, since he has some interest in it still. I had planned to give WotC a portion of my money in the near future, but since they've taken this "all or nothing" stance, I have opted for "nothing".
Its strange, but it was neither the 4e rules nor 4e FR that finally made up my mind. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jun 2008 03:58:59 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 03:40:45
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-I totally agree Mark. When I read that Document it made up my mind too. Its all about selling their Core Rule Books. Cant say I blame them. Look at how they redesigned so many monsters and what they call "Key Conceits" According to the GSL no one can change them back. Succubus I am looking at you. Its as Erik Mona said at Paizo "This is WotC's and Hasbro's way of putting the OGL Genie back in the Bottle." Heck I was planning on running Keep on the Shadowfell next month but that is not going to happen now. Instead I will run Red Hand Of Doom in the Realms. 
REMEMBER: ONE CORE TO RULE THEM ALL.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 04:24:49
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Well, I suppose we can look at it the way I've started looking at FR lately -
You can be a pessimist, and say its the end of an era, or you can be an optomist, and say its the beginning of a new one.
I think the GSL and WotC's insistance on ostracizing everything OGL is actually going to liberate 3rd parties, and backfire on them. They've managed to do something unheard of - they've galvanized all the competition against them, and now the independents are presenting a united front.
Seperate, they were never a real threat... great work, WotC. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jul 2008 04:33:19 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 22:21:44
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| As in the respective threads on paizo and Enworld is mentioned, the first 3pp will release "4e" products in August (and another one even in July!) - the GSL forbits any publication before October. Speculation is: Do they have a seperate contract with WotC, or do so publish without any license? I think the latter seems to be the case: After having decided that they cannot publish under the GSL, they avoid anything "D&D", calling it "4e", and make their own content which is completely outside of control by WotC. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 22:25:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
As in the respective threads on paizo and Enworld is mentioned, the first 3pp will release "4e" products in August (and another one even in July!) - the GSL forbits any publication before October. Speculation is: Do they have a seperate contract with WotC, or do so publish without any license? I think the latter seems to be the case: After having decided that they cannot publish under the GSL, they avoid anything "D&D", calling it "4e", and make their own content which is completely outside of control by WotC.
- I think thats to funny.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 23:15:18
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Astounding...
This thing is a Lawful Evil Fiend if ever there was one!
Well, I guess I'll have to make up my own fantasy game as well as my own fantasy world! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 06:02:53
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| Ok, Brian R. James has just confirmed in another scroll here in Candlekeep that the first 3PP releasing in August has negotiated a direct license with WotC. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 04:36:59
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| Goodman Games is definately publishing early. But they pretty much only do adventures (and their one setting). I'm curious if they will bring their setting into 4e, because of the GSL? |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 19:57:00
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quote:
Originally posted by danbuter
Goodman Games is definately publishing early. But they pretty much only do adventures (and their one setting). I'm curious if they will bring their setting into 4e, because of the GSL?
They certainly do a lot of other things. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 04:36:08
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They can't produce 3e material if they signed ANY agreement with WotC, so we will know soon enough weather they are going to convert their entire line.
Somewhere up in heaven, gary Gygax is laughing his a__ off.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jul 2008 04:36:31 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 05:02:20
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I'm really surprised, even though I shouldn't be, that Necromancer Games, at this time, has decided that they are not going to sign the GSL.
http://necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/9828
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 01 Aug 2008 05:06:12 |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 09:21:51
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I am not really interested in those licenses and what they exactly say, but what I gather from this discussion is that the new one is more restricted than the 3.X one. I think you can compare this with the Computer manufacturing business:
- 3.X is a PC ... lots of freedom and all can do what they want,
- 4e is a Mac ... and only Apple is really "allowed" to build components for it.
Lets hope they either come to their senses or become as widely distributed as Macs. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 10:32:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
B
EDIT:
Okay, reading a bit more about this atrocity over at the Paizo Boards...
quote:
Originally posted at paizo by Vic Wertz, technical director
Under the OGL, we had to include this as part of the legal text if we referenced SRD material:
OGL wrote:
System Reference Document, Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
Here's the equivalent text required by the GSL:
GSL wrote:
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS 4th Edition PLAYER’S HANDBOOK, written by Rob Heinsoo,
Andy Collins, and James Wyatt; DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE, written by James Wyatt;
and MONSTER MANUAL, written by Mike Mearls, Stephen Schubert and James Wyatt
© 2008 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All rights reserved.
Well, I don't know if we'll actually publish anything under the GSL, but if we do, I think we'll add back the "based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson" bit.
Good for them - imagine trying to take credit for something built by Gary Gygax, especially so soon after his death.
For shame, WotC... for SHAME...
Seconded! What sort of a tribute is that to give to Gary Gygax.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 16:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
I am not really interested in those licenses and what they exactly say, but what I gather from this discussion is that the new one is more restricted than the 3.X one. I think you can compare this with the Computer manufacturing business:
- 3.X is a PC ... lots of freedom and all can do what they want,
- 4e is a Mac ... and only Apple is really "allowed" to build components for it.
Lets hope they either come to their senses or become as widely distributed as Macs.
The funny thing, is that the 3.x customer service was more customer friendly, like Macs; and the 4e customer service is more just a place to send your emails to and receive no response, like Microsoft. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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My game design work:
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Fire Wraith
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 19:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
I am not really interested in those licenses and what they exactly say, but what I gather from this discussion is that the new one is more restricted than the 3.X one. I think you can compare this with the Computer manufacturing business:
- 3.X is a PC ... lots of freedom and all can do what they want,
- 4e is a Mac ... and only Apple is really "allowed" to build components for it.
Lets hope they either come to their senses or become as widely distributed as Macs.
The funny thing, is that the 3.x customer service was more customer friendly, like Macs; and the 4e customer service is more just a place to send your emails to and receive no response, like Microsoft.
Sounds about right - the worst of both worlds. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2008 : 22:40:13
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Someone PM'd me about my referene to the morality clause, but now it seems that every link I had to the GSL is not working - anyone have a copy of it, or a link that works?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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4e's Game System License
