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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 14:35:41
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I was wondering just now who is the oldest person in the realms. Not a god, but a mortal who has been around long enough that even the Sarrukh are young by comparison. Does such a being exist?
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Brunswick
Acolyte
Ireland
21 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 15:13:56
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| Heya Khorne, I'm not sure who is the oldest person in the Realms but I'd be surprised if any mortal has been around long enough "that even the Sarrukh are young in comparison". The info could probably be found in the Grand History of the Realms though! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 15:43:26
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| Larloch is definately among the oldest but I am sure there are others older than he. The Sarrukh are a lot older than him though. Don't know of any mortals older than the Sarrukh. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 18:23:41
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Having searched on information about Larloch I found this on Forgotten Realms Wiki:
quote:
Having survived the cataclysm that resulted from the death of Mystryl, Larloch values the goddess of magic—and the Weave she protects—very highly. Probably the only thing that could draw him out of his studies would be an imminent threat to Mystra or the Weave.
If this is canon, some recent developments in the reams are making even less sense.  This could have been so much fun: Larloch vs. Cyric trying to invade Dweomerheart ...
One more missed opportunity. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 19:10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Having searched on information about Larloch I found this on Forgotten Realms Wiki:
quote:
Having survived the cataclysm that resulted from the death of Mystryl, Larloch values the goddess of magic—and the Weave she protects—very highly. Probably the only thing that could draw him out of his studies would be an imminent threat to Mystra or the Weave.
If this is canon, some recent developments in the reams are making even less sense. [:E This could have been so much fun: Larloch vs. Cyric trying to invade Dweomerheart ...
One more missed opportunity.
OUCH. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 00:45:22
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| -It is likely that the Sarrukh Liches of Orume/Orome (Don't remember which is the correct spelling) are among the oldest (un)living beings on Abeir-Toril. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 07:03:22
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Please clarify what you mean by "oldest being"? Humanoids only? Living only? What?
"King Oreme" (SPOILER: Who are a committee of undead liches, hence the plural) are Sarrukh, so probably don't fit your criteria, but with them we're in the ballpark of 15,000 years minimum, and probably in the 20-25,000 year old range. 
NDAs cover a lot of competitors for the title, including Auromycos (spelling?), which is undoubtedly the largest creature on (or in) Toril without a Divine Rank. (When your size is calculated in cubic miles, your are big -- very big!) There is a big fat NDA on aboleths because of the upcoming novels, but the collective memory of an aboleth supposedly stretches back to before the "Days of Thunder." Ed hasn't answered my question about the Spellweaver Empire yet, so we know very little about them, including whether or not there are any survivors, living or undead, from their "empire," details of which are almost completely unknown.
We also know nothing at all of Jergal's "race;" no one knows what he may have been before becoming a god, if he has not existed from The Beginning, nor do we know if he (or his kind) are, or were, natives of Toril, and we thus know nothing of their lifespan, or if they had a personal or a collective mind; if the latter, do they count as "a being" because of their collective endurance?
In light of their own "creation" myth, it is possible that some illithid (or alhoon or elder brain) within Realmspace (but not necessarily on Toril itself) is older by far, but how do you calculate the age of something which may have traveled backward in time from the far future?
As for Larloch, he is definitely small change in the "oldest being" race: there is no reason to think that he is anything but a Netherese human, which would make him only a few thousand years old, and several other Netherese may be older than he is, including Ioalaum (and possibly Iolaum's still-living former apprentice -- SPOILER -- Tabra), plus Aumvor the Undying (who was actually alive for much of his existence), and possibly Quantoul, if reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated. The Teraseer (no spoiler warning, just a wink and a nod) is vastly older than either Larloch or Iolaum, but he may not qualify as a contender, depending on the ground rules. I don't recall if the Lady of Spellgard pre- or post-dated Iolaum, but she may be older than Larloch, too.
Another difficulty is that a being of such vast age may have packed up and left Toril millennia ago: Toril is regard as pretty much a cultural and scientific backwater among the crystal spheres of space, and except for its propensity to generate deities and breed lots of mortals, it is of small interest to most extraplanar beings. Quite a few Torillians have gone to the stars or to other planes (not least being the Netherese of Shade and Opus).
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 08:22:15
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| To specify my criteria: not just humanoids, and undead are ok too, so long as they started out as mortal. As long as it is sentient, not a god, and preferably not a Sarrukh, anything goes. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 08:57:39
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| AFAIK, one of the oldest (semi-) sentient being on Toril is that massive fungi thing beneath the High Forest, (the) Araumycos. So sayeth Drizzt do Urden's Guide to the Underdark. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 16:40:35
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Good catch Zanan - I was going to say that perhaps there are some Fungal/Amoebodic (Aberrations and/or slimes & jellies) lifeforms still existing from the time before the Creator Races (as aluded to in the novel Stardeep), and Araumycos is definately a possibility.
That Lich gaurding the Calimemnon Crystal is pretty damn old, but not nearly as old as those Sarrukh Liches.
Larloch has plenty of contemporaries (like Aumvor and Ioulum) so I don't think he'd even make the list - we have Halaster (recently deceased) and the mage of the Violet Spire (Hordelands) that are both from Imaskar - far older then the Netherease (although Ioulum was pretty damn old already when Netheril fell).
And then there is one of my favorites, who is of indeterminent age, but was also a Shou from Imaskar - Tan Chin, A.K.A. Ambuchar Devyam, who is at least as old as Halaster, but is currently a Lich (and presumed destroyed). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2008 16:44:56 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 17:49:04
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
To specify my criteria: not just humanoids, and undead are ok too, so long as they started out as mortal. As long as it is sentient, not a god, and preferably not a Sarrukh, anything goes.
-If you don't want to include Sarrukh, then the next possibility would come from the group of the Torillian "Fey" creator race, or, in the possibility that the aren't native, then the Batrachi. Maybe even a surviving Titan. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 18 Jun 2008 17:52:40 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 17:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You mean Oreme?
-That one. There's only a limited amount of vowels. I would have gotten it eventually. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 17:52:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Good catch Zanan - I was going to say that perhaps there are some Fungal/Amoebodic (Aberrations and/or slimes & jellies) lifeforms still existing from the time before the Creator Races (as aluded to in the novel Stardeep), and Araumycos is definately a possibility.
-Page 8 of AGHotR, according to Brian- the entry for circa -31,000 DR- is when "Abeir" was expunged from Toril. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 18:57:27
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So the creatures alluded to in Stardeep would have been contemporaries of the Creator Races? At least for a little while, anyway.
But I thought YOU told me that those Slime/Jelly life-forms came before the Creator races, so if any are still alive then that would make them the oldest (albeit far from the humanoid appearance I think the OP is looking for).
Also, the Terrasque is immortal, although I do not think it qualifies. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2008 20:52:30 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 20:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So the creatures alluded to in Stardeep would have been contemporaries of the Creator Races? At least for a little while, anyway.
-At the point mentioned in AGHotR, yes.
quote:
Originally posted by MarkustayBut I thought YOU told me that those Slime/Jelly life-forms came before the Creator races, so if any are still alive then that would make them the oldest (albeit far from the humanoid appearance I think the OP is looking for).
-Something was lost in the translation. The Aberrations of "Abeir" attempted to colonize Toril, and were rejected circa -31,000 DR. If they existed beforehand, or came during this time, is unknown at this time. The Sarrukh flourished four thousand years before this, and might have existed longer before that.
quote:
Originally posted by MarkustayAlso. the Terrasque is immortal, although I do not think it qualifies.
-Well, we don't know when it...first appeared on Abeir-Toril, so... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 22:29:12
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I'm sure there are all kinds of non-divine beings native to the Realms who have yet to make their presence known. The Sarrukh are a good call, though I suspect the oldest living/surviving being is some kind of aboleth or other aberration.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Having searched on information about Larloch I found this on Forgotten Realms Wiki:
quote:
Having survived the cataclysm that resulted from the death of Mystryl, Larloch values the goddess of magic—and the Weave she protects—very highly. Probably the only thing that could draw him out of his studies would be an imminent threat to Mystra or the Weave.
If this is canon, some recent developments in the reams are making even less sense. This could have been so much fun: Larloch vs. Cyric trying to invade Dweomerheart ...
One more missed opportunity.
Oh, I don't know--just because he has reasons to WANT to do something about it doesn't mean he CAN.
I mean, if the *gods* couldn't stop Cyric, then why would Larloch have any more success? Whatever the Prince of Lies did in Dweomerheart, it must have been a doozy.
Though I certainly agree: Larloch vs. Cyric (avatar, anyway) would be a cool fight.
As for the non-avatar, the real deal, deity-in-the-flesh, which Cyric would probably have to be to kill Mystra . . . as mighty as Larloch is, I have no doubt that full-power Cyric could dust him. Because if he couldn't, and Larloch can beat greater deities, then why is uber-lich not a greater deity himself?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 23:10:00
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Well Larloch can be brought down by force of steel, but by no arcane spells. As long as they use the weave he cant be harmed. But a sneak attack from Cyric... Ouch... Plus his divine powers... Damn tough guy to go against. But I would say, that is anyone could take Cyric, besides a god, I would gues Larloch.
Parhaps maybe a great Wyrm Prismatic dragon... and all of larloch's troop... and him self??? Perhaps.. Cyric would then die as the infidel that he is... Damn I hate that him.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 14:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm sure there are all kinds of non-divine beings native to the Realms who have yet to make their presence known. The Sarrukh are a good call, though I suspect the oldest living/surviving being is some kind of aboleth or other aberration.
You just gave me an interesting (and evil) idea...
An Abolich!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 16:57:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You just gave me an interesting (and evil) idea...
An Abolich!
-If an Undead Elder Brain is possible, an Abolich is surely possible. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 21:54:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You just gave me an interesting (and evil) idea...
An Abolich!
Ooh! That would be cool--and weird. But cool!
It's like, not ONLY is Cthulhu rising out of the waters before you, but it's ZOMBIE Cthulhu. With spells.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 22:23:21
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And racial memory -- mustn't forget that!
Part of Jared Steel's Gun, Germs, and Steel hypothesis is that the Spaniards were able to defeat the Incas in large part because the Spaniards came from a literate culture, which had examples of military and political activities dating back thousands of years; this supposedly gave them a greater wealth of precedents from which to choose than the Inca had at their disposal (the Inca Empire was only a couple of hundred years old, comparable to many human kingdoms in Faerun). Although recent archaeology at Lima may put a damper on Steel's argument, it's not hard to extrapolate from it the puissance of a being which can, in a few minutes (or perhaps hours), draw upon 20,000 or 30,000 years worth of experiences before making a decision -- it would be comparable to a RW human knowing everything in the Library of Congress, the British Museum, etc.
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" does not apply to aboleths -- they know a lot and are therefore extremely dangerous. The aboleth books will be among the few Realms.New.Coke books which I intend to buy, and I suspect that I will not be alone, given how many aboleth-related questions Ed has had to deflect with Otiluke's Impregnable NDA Screen in the last couple of years.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Felen Enthelion
Acolyte
Italy
16 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 23:12:31
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| What about the Terraseer? |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 00:18:24
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Ummm ... I already mentioned the Teraseer and said that he doesn't qualify for the list, no matter how old he is.
I also mentioned Araumycos and said that we don't know how old it is. (It isn't covered by an NDA, but it will probably be explained further in the coming years.) According to Ed, however, it tastes good -- but you may die after eating any of it.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Felen Enthelion
Acolyte
Italy
16 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 01:39:14
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What about dragons?
Daurgothoth, the Creeping Doom for istance seems quite old. Surely he isn't as old as a sharruk, but maybe he can beat Iolaum.
He is a black great wyrm, he is a dracolich, he is a wizad 20/archmage 5... he should be really old, considered that the 1st dracolich was created by Sammaster in the 902DR.
There are also Imvaernarho, Raulothim, Palaandusk, Mauzzkyl Jaezred and Tchazzar. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 01:48:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You just gave me an interesting (and evil) idea...
An Abolich!
Ooh! That would be cool--and weird. But cool!
It's like, not ONLY is Cthulhu rising out of the waters before you, but it's ZOMBIE Cthulhu. With spells.
Cheers
I've got one better... Cthulhu-Ninja-Zombie.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3767 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 20:10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Felen Enthelion
What about dragons?
Daurgothoth, the Creeping Doom for istance seems quite old. Surely he isn't as old as a sharruk, but maybe he can beat Iolaum.
He is a black great wyrm, he is a dracolich, he is a wizad 20/archmage 5... he should be really old, considered that the 1st dracolich was created by Sammaster in the 902DR.
There are also Imvaernarho, Raulothim, Palaandusk, Mauzzkyl Jaezred and Tchazzar.
-All of those mentioned are beaten by the Sarrukh, by many thousands of years, and come nowhere close to being the oldest beings on Abeir-Toril. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 20:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-All of those mentioned are beaten by the Sarrukh, by many thousands of years, and come nowhere close to being the oldest beings on Abeir-Toril.
Yep, there very well may be beings who remember the first moments of sentient life upon Toril. They may remember this because it may have just been them.
It's seems unlikely that one of the very first beings would still be alive, or aware, but it's a distinct possibility and there are likely beings who are at least 10 to 20 thousand years old. |
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Joly
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 20:46:43
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| Aboleth predate the Sarrukh and they do not die of oldage. They have survived multiple apocalyptic cataclysms. Perhaps some ancient Aboleth who "waits beneath the waves" is the oldest? |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 20:52:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Joly
Aboleth predate the Sarrukh and they do not die of oldage. They have survived multiple apocalyptic cataclysms. Perhaps some ancient Aboleth who "waits beneath the waves" is the oldest?
Could very well be. The Aboleth in question wouldn't have been born on Toril though as Aboleth aren't part of the creator races. It is more than possible that a vastly ancient Aboleth came to Toril though.
Heck, Eltab could be older than Toril for that matter. |
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Joly
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 20:59:12
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| We do not know when Aboleth's came to Faerun, in the Abberations book(was reading it last night), it said they were the true first sentient race on Faerun. Eltab IS on Toril...... I think he may win. He is a demon lord so he is freaking ancient. I think the original post meant who is the oldest being native to Faerun though, or really, who has been in Faerun longer then any other. |
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Oldest being on Toril
