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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:40:40
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G:
Gar
Glass Golem
Gloomwing
Goliath Stag Beetle
Gray Render
Grick
Grig
Grindylow
Grippli
Gryph
Gug |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:41:15
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H:
Handmaiden Devil
Hangman Tree
Hellcat
Hippocampus
Hippogriff
Hippopotamus
Hound of Tindalos
Howler
Hydrodaemon
I:
Iathavos
Ice Elemental
Ice Troll
Ifrit
Imentesh
Immolation Devil
J:
Jabberwock
Jellyfish (Giant)
Jinkin
Juju Zombie
Jyoti |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:42:17
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K:
Kalavakus
Keketar
Kelpie
Kolyrut
Korred
Krenshar
L:
Lamia Matriarch
Leng Spider
Leonal
Leprechaun
Leukodaemon
Leucrotta
Lhaksharut
Lightning Elemental
Locathah
Lurker in the Light
Lyrakien |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:43:30
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M:
Magma Elemental
Magma Dragon
Magma Ooze
Mandragora
Manta Ray
Marsh Giant
Marut
Megatherium
Meladaemon
Mercane
Merrow
Mihstu
Mithral Golem
Mobat
Monadic Deva
Mongrelman
Monkey Swarm
Moonflower
Mosquito (Giant)
Mothman
Movanic Deva
Mu Spore
Mud Elemental |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:44:26
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N:
Naunet
Necrophidius
Neh-Thalggu
Nerreid
Nightcrawler
Nightwalker
Nightwave
Nightwing
Nuglub
Nyogoth
O:
Ogrekin
Olethrodaemon
Omox
Oread |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:44:59
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P:
Paracletus
Pech
Perryton
Petitioner
Phycomid
Piscodaemon
Pleroma
Poltergeist
Pugwampi
Purrodaemon
Q:
Quickling
Quickwood
R:
Rast
Ravener
Redcap
Reefclaw
Revenant
Rock Troll
Rune Giant |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:45:37
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S:
Sandman
Sard
Scarecrow
Sceaduinar
Scorpion (Black)
Scylla
Sea Drake
Serpentfolk
Seugathi
Shantak
Shemhazian
Shield Archon
Shining Child
Shoggti
Silvanshee
Sinspawn
Siren
Skulk
Slime Mold
Slithering Tracker
Slurk
Snapping Turtle
Solifugid
Soul Eater
Soulbound Doll
Spiggan
Star Archon
Sylph |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:46:17
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T:
Taiga Giant
Tendriculos
Tenebrous Worm
Tentamort
Thanadaemon
Thanatotic Titan
Theletos
Thoqqua
Tharasfyr
Thulgant
Thunderbird
Tick (Giant)
Toad (Giant)
Totenmaske
Triton
Twigjack
Tylosaurus |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:47:03
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U:
Umbra Dragon
Undine
Urdefhan
V:
Vampiric Mist
Vemerak
Vexgit
Viper Vine
Void Worm
Vrolikai
Vulpinal |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2010 : 01:48:13
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W:
Water Orm
Wendigo
Werebear
Wereboar
Weretiger
Whale
Winterwight
Witchfire
Witchwyrd
Wood Giant
Worm That Walks
X:
Xacorba
Xtabay
Y:
Yrthak
Z:
Zelekhut |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2010 : 08:33:37
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Thank you for the list! It was handcompiled by a Paizo forum member from this poster. (Click on the picture for a somewhat bigger view.)
This week there is free chapter from Elaine Cunningham's book Winter Whitch in the web fiction blog. It's the complete prologue. If anyone did not read the story yet, go on now. I have already read the whole book, which I did in only a few days, and it is truly beautiful! I wholeheartedly recommend it.
And on a related note, as you can see in the blog, next week starts a free story in the web fiction blog from none other than our esteemed Ed Greenwood. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 09 Dec 2010 08:35:42 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2010 : 12:25:05
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| I was not satisfied with the first bestiary, does this one have more lore about the monsters? |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2010 : 16:30:14
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| Since the Bestiary 2 is not out yet - we do not know. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 01:48:50
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| Actually, I'm pretty sure there have been comments about the difficulty of turning some of the AP-monsters in it to one-page entries. Of course in those cases one could always use the old lore along with the new stats. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2010 : 06:11:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I was not satisfied with the first bestiary, does this one have more lore about the monsters?
Now that I have the PDF: The format is the same as in Bestiary 1. Some monsters got plenty of lore, some not so much. But I think it is a good ratio.
Yesterday the first part of the six-part story by Ed Greenwood started. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 16 Dec 2010 06:12:00 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2010 : 08:42:16
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Yeah, I think there was a decent amount of lore for a completely setting neutral book, with some monsters getting enough lore and some with a very bare-bones description. If you just want lore the X Revisited books are all varying degrees of awesome, as is the Book of the Damned 1, and by all reports the Book of the Damned 2 as well. All of those books are almost completely concerned with lore, with only a small amount of mechanics involved.
The Bestiary 2's primary objective is to present as many monsters to the DM as possible in a ready to run format, so is mostly about mechanics. They still manage to pack interesting bits about most of the monsters, my completely unscientific estimate is that on average about two or three paragraphs per normal monster discuss lore and a few major monsters(Jabberwock, Olethrodaemon), as well as the major categories like Daemons or Qlippith, get a page or so of description and lore. So far just reading through it I've gotten lots of great ideas, and even the smaller lore segments offer interesting tidbits or good adventure hooks. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 09:10:26
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In the first Bestiary there was some empty space that could be used for lore, the best monster books for me are still 2e monster manuals that have ecologies and society.
Imo too many weird and aberrant monsters are in this bestiary, but I had to buy it cause of a few new and wonderful monsters. Like new titans, angels, agathions, archons, azatas (that fiery one), inevitables, some daemons, golems (alchemical) and fey (brownie, korred), denizens of leng, urdefhan, draugr ... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 11:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
In the first Bestiary there was some empty space that could be used for lore, the best monster books for me are still 2e monster manuals that have ecologies and society.
I could not agree more! The 2E monster books were the best! 
I've still got most of them, and the original notebooks that came with MCs 1 and 4. I've also got all the Toril-specific ones in their own notebook and a notebook for the Spelljammer ones.
I was actually disappointed that the Bestiary wasn't more like the 2E monster books. I like the Bestiary, but I was hoping they'd get away from 3E's attitude that monsters had no use other than sources of XP.
The best monster books for 3.x are, in my opinion, the Monsternomicon books for the Iron Kingdoms. Those books were quite well done. In fact, all of the Iron Kingdoms stuff was very well done. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 12:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like the Bestiary, but I was hoping they'd get away from 3E's attitude that monsters had no use other than sources of XP.
I adore the 2e monster books as well. However I'll point out that the monster writeups in Pathfinder's adventure path books, and the various X Revisited books have a much more expansive format for lore, history, ecology, etc than the Bestiary entries. For example, compare the Protean entries in the Bestiary II versus those in The Great Beyond - the longer format in some of those types of books has been really nice to work with. For the proteans, same monsters, but different books and thus different formats for the monster entries.
Paizo had to maximize the number of critters in the Bestiary books, but even then it's more flavor than what you might find in other D&D monster books currently on offer like the 4e MM. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 14:27:06
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| And lets not forget the ... Revisited line. Each monster get a 6-page write-up. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 19:58:33
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Yeah, I think Paizo did a great job packing a ton of monsters in with the maximum amount of lore they could fit on their page. I'm very happy with the many outsider entries, especially the Daemons and Qlippoth, and I'm also happy that they didn't waste any pages on lore for the basic animals, instead fitting variants into the same page. If someone wants to know lore about Camels or Hippos, or even the Megafauna and Dinosaurs they can read all about them in an encyclopedia.
I also think they made some effort to add lore that makes monsters more than xp sources. The Leprechaun, for one, seems like it could be an interesting and slightly annoying encounter that doesn't involve any combat. The Crypt Thing also could be an interesting ally/enemy depending on how the characters deal with one they encounter, and most of the fey, true to their nature, seem to be more about tricks and annoyances than pure combat.
A majority of the creatures are just intended for combat though and don't get enough of a writeup, especially the new Primal Dragons in my opinion. I wish Paizo hadn't done Dragons revisited yet, so that they could do the book now with these new Primal Dragons, I'm really interested in seeing how they fit into Golarion. |
Edited by - idilippy on 22 Dec 2010 20:00:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 20:08:34
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| Paizo did a good job, particularly with the Revisited books... But their Bestiary entries still fell short of the 2E monster listings TSR gave us. Those, to me, are the yardstick by which all monster books should be measured. They may have had some lame critters, but they gave us a lot of good info on those critters, lame or not. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 20:28:30
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My only issue with the 2E compendia was the physical format. Every time I bought a new packet of monsters to put in that binder my mom would say that I must have received another package from the monster recipe club!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Paizo did a good job, particularly with the Revisited books... But their Bestiary entries still fell short of the 2E monster listings TSR gave us. Those, to me, are the yardstick by which all monster books should be measured. They may have had some lame critters, but they gave us a lot of good info on those critters, lame or not.
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 20:30:04
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| Oh, and back to Golarion, the second chapter of Ed's Alkenstar story is up on their fiction blog today. |
Edited by - Christopher_Rowe on 22 Dec 2010 20:34:57 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 20:33:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
My only issue with the 2E compendia was the physical format. Every time I bought a new packet of monsters to put in that binder my mom would say that I must have received another package from the monster recipe club!
I'd subscribe to it. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 20:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
My only issue with the 2E compendia was the physical format. Every time I bought a new packet of monsters to put in that binder my mom would say that I must have received another package from the monster recipe club!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Paizo did a good job, particularly with the Revisited books... But their Bestiary entries still fell short of the 2E monster listings TSR gave us. Those, to me, are the yardstick by which all monster books should be measured. They may have had some lame critters, but they gave us a lot of good info on those critters, lame or not.
I liked the idea of them being loose-leaf so DMs could only keep the necessary critters handy... It never seems to have caught on with others, though, which puzzles me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 22:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Paizo did a good job, particularly with the Revisited books... But their Bestiary entries still fell short of the 2E monster listings TSR gave us. Those, to me, are the yardstick by which all monster books should be measured. They may have had some lame critters, but they gave us a lot of good info on those critters, lame or not.
See, I compare Paizo's Bestiary to the 3e and 3.5e monster books, rather than the 2e books, which I think works favorably in Paizo's favor. Monsters are just so much more complicated to stat out in these later editions that it takes so much more space per monster and leaves a lot less space for lore. I do like having details like feeding and mating habits for monsters, and things like stats for turning hides into armor or selling creature eggs, young, or body parts, but I can understand how it wouldn't be practical.
The Bestiary 2 has 285 monsters I believe, if each monster just got a page and a half the book would be almost 430 pages without even accounting for the appendixes. With the large stat blocks many monsters would need at least a page in a half or two pages to go into the sort of detail the 2e monsters got, making it either an incredibly massive, and expensive to print, book or else requiring over a hundred monsters to be cut to fit the books 319 pages.
I agree that the 2e monster books are the pinnacle of monster lore, but I don't compare Paizo's Bestiary work to those books since it is such a completely different system. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 23:35:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
In the first Bestiary there was some empty space that could be used for lore, the best monster books for me are still 2e monster manuals that have ecologies and society.
I could not agree more! The 2E monster books were the best!
Yep! There's a reason I still refer to these books, even now.
quote:
I've still got most of them, and the original notebooks that came with MCs 1 and 4. I've also got all the Toril-specific ones in their own notebook and a notebook for the Spelljammer ones.
I don't think I'm actually missing any, though I've used some, like the Realms and DRAGONLANCE ones, more than others. So I may have forgotten a few of the lesser-used files.
quote:
The best monster books for 3.x are, in my opinion, the Monsternomicon books for the Iron Kingdoms. Those books were quite well done. In fact, all of the Iron Kingdoms stuff was very well done.
The 3e DRAGONLANCE Bestiary was also a stellar example of the 3e 'Monster' books, and I found the later volumes of 3e Monster Manuals to be of better quality than the earlier version as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 01:12:29
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I just know there's a scroll around here somewhere where some kind scribe was updating persistent links to Ed's six part "Guns of Alkenstar" novella over at Paizo, but I'll be darned if I can find it. In any case, the tale is told! Part Six of Six went live today, free like all their web fiction.
Cheers,
Christopher
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 02:12:54
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| Here is the link to the articles on the Paizo site. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Golarion
