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Athairgi_the_Child-Eater
Acolyte
5 Posts |
 Posted - 15 May 2008 : 21:08:29
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Heya,
I am making a list of the Powers that also exist on Earth(in myth, at the very least). So far, I have these listed:
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Bhaal(Northern African)
Illmater(Finnish)
Loviatar(Finnish)
Mielikki(Finnish)
Oghma(Celtic)
Silvanus(Roman)
Tyr(Norse)
Entire Mulhorandi/Untheric Pantheons(Middle Eastern)
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...But I suspect that I am missing some(I may be wrong, though), so I would be glad if you would lend me a helping hand, so to speak...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 14:25:59
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Ilmater is not the same god as Ilmatar - aside from the name similarities, there is nothing else that connects them.
The Vedic Gods are worshipped in the Malatra/Kara-Tur Jungles regions, with Yama, Indra, and Kali specifically named in source. However, Yama's portfolio appears to be different (like Tyr's), and Indra is female in the Realms.
Kiputtyto, the Finnish Goddess of disease was around right up until the time around when Netheril fell, but I believe she was killed-off by Talona (after a many-century spanning rivalry).
Sharess IS Bast's name in the Realms, but I suppose she still goes by Baast in Mulhorand.
The Greek Pantheon was mentioned early on, in the Bloodstone Products, but they have been retconned out (leaving Dionysius and I think one other as 'Saints'). Dozens of Earth Gods from several Pantheons have alters in temples long-buried beneath the Raurin desert (too many to list). Although that was only mentioned in Deserts of Desolation. it has never been contradicted (retconned), and one may surmise it had something to do with the Imaskari's habit of visiting other worlds.
I'm sure I've missed a few, I'm no where near my sources ATM, but thats what I can think of off the top of my head.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2008 16:11:05 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:20:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Greek Pantheon was mentioned early on, in the Bloodstone Products, but they have been retconned out (leaving Dionysius and I think one other as 'Saints'). Dozens of Earth Gods from several Pantheons have alters in temples long-buried beneath the Raurin desert (too many to list). Although that was only mentioned in Deserts of Desolation. it has never been contradicted (retconned), and one may surmise it had something to do with the Imaskari's habit of visiting other wolds.
In both of these cases, the products were not originally FR products. They were written setting-neutral, and then dropped into the Realms. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 May 2008 15:22:33 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:34:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Kiputtyto, the Finnish Goddess of disease was around right up until the time around when Netheril fell, but I believe she was killed-off by Talona (after a many-century spanning rivalry).
Kiputytto was killed and absorbed by Talona. See the entry for "Talona" in Faiths & Avatars.
I'll note further that, in Ed's original "Down-to-Earth Divinity" from DRAGON #54, Talona is Kiputytto renamed.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 16:41:52
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| I also think "Bhaal" is being confused with "Ba'al". Ba'al (or Baal) was a fertility deity, and not very much like Bhaal of the FR, although they do have similar names. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 May 2008 16:42:58 |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 17:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I also think "Bhaal" is being confused with "Ba'al". Ba'al (or Baal) was a fertility deity, and not very much like Bhaal of the FR, although they do have similar names.
Agreed. I think the only similarity between the Bhaal of the FR and the the ancient Near Eastern Ba'al is that in the Judeo-Christian tradition, Ba'al was considered to be an evil or, perhaps more accurately, false god, the worship of whom was seen as being apposed to the worship of Yahweh. It might also be relevant that the word Ba'al simply meant "Lord" or "Master" and, a such, was commonly used for people of authority; jews included.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 16 May 2008 17:48:16 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 17:47:33
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| Baal (or feminine Baalat) just means ''lord'' in Phoenician, as far as I remember from the last semester (archaeology student), there are many different uses of the term, can be confusing |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 18:46:43
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At some point I believe the Catholic Church 'Demonized' the name (as they did with most Pagan Gods), and hence the modern interpretation.
However, even though Ed may have liked the name for his evil deity, it still does not resemble either the demon or the original version.
If you really wanted to stretch things a bit, some of Ed's gods were based on the Melnibonéan Mythos, most notably the Elemental Lords (Kossuth = Kakatal, etc...), and since Michael Moorcock's Gods were all active within Earth's sphere, you can say that some of those came from here as well (although they're really multi-spheric, and fictional besides, not mythological).
Also, some of the Elder Evils, like that Chaos Hound and the World Serpent, are based on RW myths as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2008 18:57:35 |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 20:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
At some point I believe the Catholic Church 'Demonized' the name (as they did with most Pagan Gods), and hence the modern interpretation.
The catholic church did not invent the demonization of Ba'al; unless you mean the catholic church began using Ba'al as the proper name of a demon or something. In any case, the notion of Ba'al as evil is not a modern interpretation. Texts that date back to the 10th century B.C. indicate that the tribes of Judah perceived Ba'al as one of many gods (Asherah, Molech, etc.) whose worship was seen as sinful, as unfaithful to Yahweh. Obviously Ba'al worshipers didn't see it that way.
quote:
If you really wanted to stretch things a bit, some of Ed's gods were based on the Melnibonéan Mythos, most notably the Elemental Lords (Kossuth = Kakatal, etc...), and since Michael Moorcock's Gods were all active within Earth's sphere, you can say that some of those came from here as well (although they're really multi-spheric, and fictional besides, not mythological).
Also, some of the Elder Evils, like that Chaos Hound and the World Serpent, are based on RW myths as well.
There is nothing new under the sun, as they say. Arguably every social grouping in history has borrowed from others. And even if in some cases one can't point to direct borrowing, many would argue that humans inevitably produce deities and mythologies that express Jungian archetypes: fertility, death, trickster, old sage, mother, father, destruction, creation, etc.
I could be way off base here, but one could argue that one of the many reasons that the Realms is so compelling is that it presents personifications of archetypes that are as old as humanity. And it does so in a (western) society that, due to centuries of monotheism and, more recently, science, has lost many of its cultural expressions of the archetypes; although you could argue that catholicism maintained many of them in the form of the patron saints.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 16 May 2008 20:33:22 |
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Athairgi_the_Child-Eater
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 14:38:58
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| Interesting... Thanks alot! You do amaze me, sages of Candlekeep! |
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Powers on Earth?
