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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2008 : 04:08:01
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
But, like Rino said, it's not universal. I live in a fly-over state. 
Perhaps I should mention that I live in the Northeastern U.S., not far from New York City--not exactly an area that would be considered "provincial."
Although of course, one will find people of all political beliefs in any state. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 04:13:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't speak for everyone who lives in the US, but in my experience, people like Jack Chick (although, I believe he's deceased) don't represent the majority of the population.
Unfortunately, according to his wiki page, he's still alive. Though I imagine, given his age, he wouldn't last all that much longer.
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Karzak, in large enough numbers any group has to be taken seriously, especially in a participatory democracy where most eligible voters haven't participated. Whomever cares enough to shut off their TV and vote--or protest--has a disproportionate amount of power.
That said, your original posting made me laugh. Thanks!
You're welcome. Now let's vote me for dictator. ;D |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 04:27:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Was our Watercourse villain also a pedophilic rapist?
No, he wasn't (as far as I could tell from the text, that is). Of course, he was still an evil Red Wizard of Thay.
On one hand, you could say that the novels of Phil Athans are progressive in a sense because they feature homosexuality as a matter of course. On the other hand, the very first scene in The Watercourse trilogy is one I can't quite figure out. The villain's mother dresses him up as a girl (complete with lipstick!) for no apparent reason, when he is a very young child. At that time, he is presented to the Zulkir, who asks "is this your son?" His mother says, "yes, Zulkir". I wondered what the heck that was supposed to mean. It seems to imply that the villain "turned gay" because he was dressed up like a girl or something.
quote:
Or was he more germane? Did he get to have PDA? 
He force-kissed his protege, Willem, on the mouth right before he turns Willem into an undead creature.
This is pretty grim for WotC, but perhaps his mom was pimping him out to the Zulkir?
That undead thing sounds like our gay villain has control issues.  Yet even the gay PDA was evil.
Does Phil hang out here to ask him? |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 04:36:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
You're welcome. Now let's vote me for dictator. ;D
Unfortunately, based upon our constitution, I suspect all dictators must be American citizens and over age 45. To date, it helps if you're a white male evangelical Christian, too, with a wife and a passel of kids.
Get that together and you might be electable!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 13:40:12
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...And let's not stray too much further into real-world politics.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 May 2008 13:43:25 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 16:05:16
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I'm certainly not an expert or anything, but if you're interested on my view of writing sexuality, here's some of it. I posted it on my blog for reference: http://eriksdb.livejournal.com/145968.html
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 00:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
I don't know where you are Yoshi, but in the U.S. --unless I'm mistaken-- deeply rooted --though perhaps not conscious-- puritanism and the religious right are still significant factors to contend with for companies hoping to reach a mass audience. D&D is already viewed with suspicion by many Christians in North America, because of its magical, polytheistic setting. Adding a hot button issue like homosexuality to the mix would be brave indeed. I don't suspect WotC is interested in being brave so much as selling stuff. Here in Canada, I don't think it would be as much of an issue.
Afet
I'm a citizen of the U.S., and while I do think what you mentioned is a factor, I also believe it is overhyped and exaggerated. For example, there are pushes for legalized gay marriage in all 50 states (or so I've read).
As for this part:
quote:
D&D is already viewed with suspicion by many Christians in North America, because of its magical, polytheistic setting.
How many is "many"? Enough that sales of D&D products have foundered because of it? If so, I would like to see proof. In all the bookstores I've been in, the D&D products are easy to find and not kept in some "secret section" so people suspicious of such products cannot see them.
I don't mean to come off as confrontational, here, but I think generalizations like that are kind of unfair. The U.S. is not a nation of 17th century puritans--you didn't say that, but sadly I've seen people suggest that we are like that.
I've got to second Rin's remarks on this thread and some of the comments - I'm neither from the US, nor a Christian, yet I've considered some of the generalisations and/or essentialist conclusions troubling.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
I don't know where you are Yoshi, but in the U.S. --unless I'm mistaken-- deeply rooted --though perhaps not conscious-- puritanism and the religious right are still significant factors to contend with for companies hoping to reach a mass audience.
I'm a citizen of the U.S., and while I do think what you mentioned is a factor, I also believe it is overhyped and exaggerated. For example, there are pushes for legalized gay marriage in all 50 states (or so I've read).
As for this part:
quote:
D&D is already viewed with suspicion by many Christians in North America, because of its magical, polytheistic setting.
How many is "many"? Enough that sales of D&D products have foundered because of it? If so, I would like to see proof. In all the bookstores I've been in, the D&D products are easy to find and not kept in some "secret section" so people suspicious of such products cannot see them.
I don't mean to come off as confrontational, here, but I think generalizations like that are kind of unfair. The U.S. is not a nation of 17th century puritans--you didn't say that, but sadly I've seen people suggest that we are like that.
I've got to second Rin's remarks on this thread and some of the comments - I'm neither from the US, nor a Christian, yet I've considered some of the generalisations and/or essentialist conclusions troubling.
I apologize if I offended any U.S. citizens with my comments. I didn't think my comments about enduring transgressive attitudes toward sexuality in the U.S. were controversial. Regarding my comment that, quote:
D&D is already viewed with suspicion by many Christians in North America, because of its magical, polytheistic setting.
You were right to question the word "many". In truth, I based this comment on my personal experience living in a number of cities in Canada and the U.S.(the comment was not restricted to the U.S.). I grew up in an evangelical community and most of my family members are still active Christians. Over the years I have often seen skepticism and outright hostility towards D&D. Very recently I have once again received suspicious reactions from evangelicals when I mention to them that I play D&D with my kids. The objections are almost always based on ignorance, of course. It's true that the evangelical anti-D&D hype and the influence of B.A.D.D. (Bothered about Dungeons and Dragons)have wained significantly since their peak in the mid 80s, but vague, fixed impressions die hard. And a quick peak around online reveals that the suspicions remain in place, and for the same reasons as ever: the occult, magic and polytheism. Here a couple of examples:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d2.htm
http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp
Cheers,
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 07 May 2008 02:28:57 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:41:59
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| Okay, we're delving a little too far into topics that are officially restricted from being discussed here at Candlekeep. I'm sealing this scroll for the time being. Pending a joint Moderator-Consensus, it may be re-opened later. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Has any novel ever mentioned homosexuality?
Topic Locked
