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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 22:01:07
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Okay, I'm not going to air my beefs, only a couple of observations. What I'd like to hear is some constructive replies, and peoples' opinions on some of the changes and recent developments in 4e.
The biggest change I've noticed so far is the move towards tiered experience levels, and tiered powers that go along with them. This is a fundamental change in the development of the game. It has associated pros and cons, and one obvious element, all of which are to follow. Regardless, these Tiers are: Heroic (levels 1-10), Paragon (levels 11-20), and Epic (levels 21-30).
Each palyer class has powers, and the number of powers and healing surges you receive is dependant upon your level. Each tier has its own bonus powers as well, and you gain these in addition to the regular class powers, though they are dependant upon having reached each milestone independantly. The "obvious element" of which I spoke earlier is that this very closely resembles the system in place in Everquest II.
In a way, I was deeply disappointed to see this; even as a long-time EQII player. However, once I got past the knee-jerk reaction, I started to see the pros and cons for their individual merits and to weigh the possible consequences for the course of the game. As I see it, there are some pros, and some cons, but the rammifications of this could very strongly influence the course of D&D; and not necessarily in a good way, per se.
Pros
Specialization: A tiered system of advancement eliminates a lot of the prerequisite-based trappings of some of the simpler and more common prestige classes, such as Purple Dragon, War Wizard, Thaumaturgist, etc. It provides a channel by which these specializations may be brought closer to the "core".
Progression: A tiered system starting with heroic makes sense. AD&D 2e had a page detailing how anyone with adventuring attributes was already exceptional in their endowment. Progression from heroic to paragon, or epic level makes sense when you're detailing the development and consequences for characters. If a legendary group of heroes walks into a small town, for example, their deeds will precede them. If the town also turns out to be led by a cabal of evil priests, and the adventurers massacre the town, those deeds will be far more difficult to escape if they are highly renowned. It may even involve the hiring of other adventuring groups to hunt them down, even if their actions were justifiable.
Ease: By the time many new players, or old players who've been out of the loop for a long time - both male and female - come into this game, many of them will have played an MMO. As many of them will probably have come to realize, MMOs are easy to get into, easy to learn, and fun. However, MMOs don't have the dynamism, immersive imaginative contributions, or interpersonal interractions that paper and pen play offers.
Sure, you can sit at home and play EQII or WOW and use Ventrillo to chat with your buddies and drink beer or pop when you play, but you're not getting 'into the game', nor is it the same as face to face. You can't throw popcorn or cheezies at someone over the computer when they get you ganked because they did something stupid. Having a tiered system similar to that of an MMO makes it easier for new players to get into, and that's attractive.
Cons
Specialization: This kind of tiered system could very easily reduce the flexibility, innovation, and creativity of play and new developments to a static skill tree of the like used by MMOs. This is unnacceptable in my mind.
Progression: Having six or seven starting classes, twice as many paragon classes, and then twice as many epic options, with only a very narrow career course available to each is insufficient, except where the plot allows for these developments. (i.e. If there were, for example, a "Guild Master" Epic Class; under the tiered system it may be justified that you can ONLY reach this point by being first a 'Hero' Wizard, and 'Paragon' Guild Wizard... Repeat for other classes, rinse, repeat, etc)
Ease: Part of Dungeons & Dragons' appeal has been that it is NOT an MMO, nor is it cast from the same 'cookie cutter' mould as the other forms of fantasy entertainment. D&D defined roleplay because it did not conform to conventional entertainment. Is innovation being replaced by conformity? Further, what is the appeal of playing make-believe with your friends when you can have access to a complete photo-realistic, spectral-mapped, 360o environment?
Have you seen the demo for D&D Insider's online RP tool? It looks like Ultima Online. Why would roleplayers play D&D through Insider's software when other game systems get FAR more support and development, and look brilliant? Could Hasbro invest in an easy-to-use DM creation tool (unlike those in place with NWN 1&2) that still provides Oblivion-esque graphics?
That's all I've got for now. Tell me what you think.
Stone
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Edited by - Stonwulfe on 27 Apr 2008 22:06:05
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 00:04:33
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| I don't have to much to say, other than that I rather like the tier system based on what I've seen so far. Unlike the 3E prestige classes, it seems more to me like the PC will be able to "specialize" without it seeming like they stopped progressing in their original class (that's always how it seemed to me, anyway). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:48:19
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After we hijacked Brian's Spellplague: WY thread, I located this one--and did some surfing at Wizards to catch up on the DDI.
TTBOMK, I won't immediately switch to 4e rules systems because my group's so heavily invested in both in campaign and source material for 3.x. That's not mentioned as a criticism of the 4e rules, simply to denote I have little vested interest in the rules changes.
I plan to subscribe to DDI and check out functions like GT. The DDI FAQ at Wizards mentions it will embed 4e rulesets in GT, so perhaps I'll develop an stronger opinion on 4e rules by an osmosis-of-sorts, but I expect I'll use DDI for reuniting with distant gamer-chummers in 3.e DnD or ShadowRun. It also sounds like Dungeon (and Dragon?) magazines will be included; if I understood correctly, that's a definite plus.
Mace mentioned somewhere that the epic destinies smacks of a resurrection of the Immortals box set. I remember sitting in the jr high cafeteria consuming 3"x6" government pizzas and planning apotheoses with chummers, and, oddly, I've never desired a return. Yet every younger gamer (i.e. who never OD'd on Immortals) with whom I've gamed *seriously* jonesed on equivalents to the epic destinies in 2e and 3.x, so it was a wise inclusion.
There's my latest 2cp of thought. 
I have some thoughts on the points-of-light. Is this thread inclusive of the FR changes? Trying to Get my thoughts in the right place (aka remain on-topic).  |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 02:55:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't have to much to say, other than that I rather like the tier system based on what I've seen so far. Unlike the 3E prestige classes, it seems more to me like the PC will be able to "specialize" without it seeming like they stopped progressing in their original class (that's always how it seemed to me, anyway).
Did you notice players movement towards PrC choices that did not require a loss of progressions? It seemed like the later feats worked to counter it, but then there were never enough feat slots....  |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 03:41:49
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| What does TTBOMK stand for? |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 04:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Further, what is the appeal of playing make-believe with your friends when you can have access to a complete photo-realistic, spectral-mapped, 360o environment?
I haven't seen the environments you mentioned, and my group wouldn't use them anyway, we're strictly table-top players. However, I actually like the character generator tool, from what I've seen. Having a physical representation of your character is something that many players want, but not all have the ability to draw their characters themselves. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 05:23:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
What does TTBOMK stand for?
I was being lazy. I should have type out, "to the best of my knowledge." I appreciate your asking. |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 07:59:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Further, what is the appeal of playing make-believe with your friends when you can have access to a complete photo-realistic, spectral-mapped, 360o environment?
I haven't seen the environments you mentioned, and my group wouldn't use them anyway, we're strictly table-top players. However, I actually like the character generator tool, from what I've seen. Having a physical representation of your character is something that many players want, but not all have the ability to draw their characters themselves.
I agree with this notion. I suck as an artist, and I have a lot of characters that I wish I could have a picture (or virtual mini) for. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 16:10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Further, what is the appeal of playing make-believe with your friends when you can have access to a complete photo-realistic, spectral-mapped, 360o environment?
I haven't seen the environments you mentioned, and my group wouldn't use them anyway, we're strictly table-top players. However, I actually like the character generator tool, from what I've seen. Having a physical representation of your character is something that many players want, but not all have the ability to draw their characters themselves.
I agree with this notion. I suck as an artist, and I have a lot of characters that I wish I could have a picture (or virtual mini) for.
This (the character modeling program) is the sort of application that I would use, but only if I could pay for it once and be done with it. I am already subscribing to and MMORPG, I do not need to incur more monthly fees. And while the pay-site model is business savvy and profitable, I am not nearly as likely to pay for what they are offering (especially with the substandard online version of the Dungeon and Dragon mags) as I am for a MMO, and I definitely am not going to give up my current MMO so I can afford DDi. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
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My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 17:10:08
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What really would be GREAT is if the character models would also be turned into real molded minis available to the subscriber  For that I would pay a monthly fee! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 19:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Have you seen the demo for D&D Insider's online RP tool? It looks like Ultima Online. Why would roleplayers play D&D through Insider's software when other game systems get FAR more support and development, and look brilliant? Could Hasbro invest in an easy-to-use DM creation tool (unlike those in place with NWN 1&2) that still provides Oblivion-esque graphics?
I've seen screenshots of the DDI tool and oh my god, hideousness incarnate. Who did they hire to make those models, amputated blind monkeys?
Oblivion is, however, a bad model to aspire to. Have you seen its character models? They barely look human most of the time, and tend to range from "unbelievably ugly" to "what is this mutant thing" to "this looks like a drowned corpse." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 16:21:42
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| Truth be told, WotC's website is quite a mess, and I'm not going to take for granted that they are masters of online game design. I'm going to wait and see before I decide to shell out money for DDI. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 16:51:54
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| The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 17:08:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Oh, I'm sure we'll get some opinions on how useful DDI is around here.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 17:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Not necessarily. If they haven't fixed the problems with their website in several years, what's to say that a pay service is going to be any better? All she has to do is wait for screencaps and the reviews of others before she knows if it's any better or not. |
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ddporter
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 20:12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Bill Slaviscek of WOTC says, in the latest "Dragon" article, that there will be a free beta period for DDI that starts when 4e is officially released. Registration will be required.
He goes on to say how wonderful the online editions of Dragon and Dungeon will be. Draw your own conclusions. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 20:25:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Bill Slaviscek of WOTC says, in the latest "Dragon" article, that there will be a free beta period for DDI that starts when 4e is officially released. Registration will be required.
He goes on to say how wonderful the online editions of Dragon and Dungeon will be. Draw your own conclusions.
Lol. Wasn't the "free Beta period" supposed to begin last October when they began "publishing" the online travesties that they are purporting to be the Dungeon and Dragon magazines? Or maybe that was specifically termed the "free trial period." I don't remember, it seems so long ago... |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 21:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Lol. Wasn't the "free Beta period" supposed to begin last October when they began "publishing" the online travesties that they are purporting to be the Dungeon and Dragon magazines? Or maybe that was specifically termed the "free trial period." I don't remember, it seems so long ago...
Honestly, I think the quality of production has seen a serious decline since the hand-off to Paizo, and the innovation of articles has largely been generated by fan submissions than from any solid contributions from the staff writers (with some notable exceptions). The closest they came to really gaining my attention was with a couple of Eberron Articles (or anything written by Ed), and the one for naming Martial Arts moves along Hong-Kong Action Movie conventions. (i.e. Monkey's paw sweeps the sun, etc) |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:16:14
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quote:
Oblivion is, however, a bad model to aspire to. Have you seen its character models? They barely look human most of the time, and tend to range from "unbelievably ugly" to "what is this mutant thing" to "this looks like a drowned corpse."
I agree with this but it's not the software's fault. You can make some very nice, realistic faces using the Oblivion character creation. The problem is that I think they just used some random numbers to generate the in-game characters. You sure didn't have to worry about running into any Elves of unearthly beauty...
Still, if they provided that level of capability for DDI, it would be something positive. Mind you, you could just buy Oblivion or Mass Effect or any number of recent RPG's and take a screenshot.
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:43:05
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You're sure to run into maidens (elven or not) with features to inspire unearthly horror, however. Customization is nice, but never mind randomly generated NPCs: even a player can have a hard time making a character look like a human being rather than some spawn from the dimensions of Lovecraftian mythos.
Besides, Bethesda has some very bizarre ideas about aesthetics. Morrowind's character models were a lot less customizable - far as I recall, the heads were static pregenerated ones - but dear god, they were still ugly as sin. There's a reason there were so many "pretty heads" mods floating around. I don't need my RPG characters to look like supermodels by any means, but nor do I want them to look like alien aberrations that make me want to shove a helmet onto their heads and never ever take it off. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:54:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Oh, I'm sure we'll get some opinions on how useful DDI is around here.
Right--I can get people's opinions on it very easily, and shelling out the fee for one month (when it's not in beta) might be worth it to see what it's like.
quote:
Not necessarily. If they haven't fixed the problems with their website in several years, what's to say that a pay service is going to be any better? All she has to do is wait for screencaps and the reviews of others before she knows if it's any better or not.
Exactly, and I plan to do just that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 May 2008 22:56:44 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 22:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by ddporter
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
The problem with that, Rinonalyrna, is that it's a catch-22. You have to shell out money for DDI to see it.
Bill Slaviscek of WOTC says, in the latest "Dragon" article, that there will be a free beta period for DDI that starts when 4e is officially released. Registration will be required.
He goes on to say how wonderful the online editions of Dragon and Dungeon will be. Draw your own conclusions.
Lol. Wasn't the "free Beta period" supposed to begin last October when they began "publishing" the online travesties that they are purporting to be the Dungeon and Dragon magazines? Or maybe that was specifically termed the "free trial period." I don't remember, it seems so long ago...
Now I'm confused. I thought we were already in the trial period, myself. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 23:16:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Here's a link to the printer-friendly, updated FAQs for the DDI non-subscription and subscription service changes.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq&pf=true
Thanks. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2008 : 23:37:16
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quote:
How much will the D&D Insider subscription cost?
$14.95/month, or you can buy a 3-month or 12-month subscription at a discount. A 12-month subscription works out to $9.95/month.
What, roughly the same fee as an average MMORPG? What a coincidence. |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2008 : 00:33:16
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Karzak, while I would normally be one of the first to make that kind of statement, and I usually am - I must respectfully point something out:
In an MMORPG it's a computer-run, pre-scripted or instance-generated scenario that the players encounter. The difference with what DDI proposes is a dynamic, DM-led set of possible scenarios limited only by DM creativity and the player's imaginative faculties. The toolset includes custom map generation, and as per the video demo (seeing is not believing, but worth a moment's pause nonetheless) on-the-fly map changes and write-ins.
Even with DDO Stormreach, you're not guaranteed not to run into a dragon, because the admins and DMs behind the game have the ability to throw in spawned creatures, but the setting itself is fixed. If DDI Gametable holds true to promised form, that restriction simply won't exist with GT. Mind you, I'm keeping my tongue to the salt-lick with this (the proverbial grain of salt, ad nauseum) until I see what actually comes of it.
If the tools outperform FantasyGrounds (fantasygrounds.com) and are more aesthetically pleasing, then it's reasonable for myself and my players to invest in it. If they pull a suck move and pump out some crap just to keep to their deadlines, I'm not sure I'll continue to buy their print products, much less their subscription service. After all, even at $9.95 a month that easily equals the cost of three hardcover supplements a year (something even now I don't aspire to, except where I need resource material or have an exceptionally good month in sales). |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2008 : 18:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
Karzak, while I would normally be one of the first to make that kind of statement, and I usually am - I must respectfully point something out:
In an MMORPG it's a computer-run, pre-scripted or instance-generated scenario that the players encounter. The difference with what DDI proposes is a dynamic, DM-led set of possible scenarios limited only by DM creativity and the player's imaginative faculties. The toolset includes custom map generation, and as per the video demo (seeing is not believing, but worth a moment's pause nonetheless) on-the-fly map changes and write-ins.
You know, NWN and NWN2 don't demand monthly fees.
Actually, I didn't mean that I expected this to be an MMORPG, or even like one. I doubt, however, that the service warrants that kind of price, but we'll see. Or at least, people willing to give it a try will see.
quote:
Even with DDO Stormreach, you're not guaranteed not to run into a dragon, because the admins and DMs behind the game have the ability to throw in spawned creatures, but the setting itself is fixed.
?
Does Stormreach even have active GMs/DMs who interact with players in that manner (spawning mobs or whatnot)? Because I don't think it does. |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 05:57:45
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I have to say that I was initially excited about the Online tools because my gaming group lives in different places. But seeing that price tag makes me do a double take.
One of the reasons I signed on to play a MMO like WoW or DDO was because I did not have to do all the work. But with D&D you have to do all the map construction and narrative design and NPC creation, etc. To be able to play D&D online at a virtual table with friends I cannot meet in real life, well as a DM I say Great!!!...but I doubt the toolset will be much better than the NWN sets. You still have to do allot of work (again which is fine and expected for PnP)....but aside from the online interface....what am I paying such a hefty $$$ for? I mean are they going to include virtual minis/figures for every Monster Manual supplement that comes out?
What really irks me is that they seem to be selling everything to us twice. You buy one thing (rules, minis, etc) for 'real' play and now another expense for 'virtual' play. From their FAQ they write:
"The D&D Insider subscription will include a number of Digital Minis and 3D Tiles. Additional packs of minis and tiles can be purchased individually. "
So now if we play both modes we pay twice the price??? That is just bogus... :( For $14.95 per month, expansions should be free...
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 06:17:43
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Chyron: Bingo!
You nail all main reasons of my 4E disdain right on their respective head!
I'm sick of money for nothin'... WotC's way I mean! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 14:02:35
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| Well, to be fair you'd be paying for more than just a means to play D&D online. You'd also be paying for the online Dragon and Dungeon magazines (and yeah, I know some people think they now suck, but that's not the point I'm trying to make). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 12 May 2008 14:05:44 |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 19:10:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
I have to say that I was initially excited about the Online tools because my gaming group lives in different places. But seeing that price tag makes me do a double take.
One of the reasons I signed on to play a MMO like WoW or DDO was because I did not have to do all the work. But with D&D you have to do all the map construction and narrative design and NPC creation, etc. To be able to play D&D online at a virtual table with friends I cannot meet in real life, well as a DM I say Great!!!...but I doubt the toolset will be much better than the NWN sets. You still have to do allot of work (again which is fine and expected for PnP)....but aside from the online interface....what am I paying such a hefty $$$ for? I mean are they going to include virtual minis/figures for every Monster Manual supplement that comes out?
What really irks me is that they seem to be selling everything to us twice. You buy one thing (rules, minis, etc) for 'real' play and now another expense for 'virtual' play. From their FAQ they write:
"The D&D Insider subscription will include a number of Digital Minis and 3D Tiles. Additional packs of minis and tiles can be purchased individually. "
So now if we play both modes we pay twice the price??? That is just bogus... :( For $14.95 per month, expansions should be free...
As stated on their website the subscription rate of 14.95 month drops in price per length of service. If a person subscribes for a year the rate is 9.95 a month plus it has other features besides the ones you listed. Also there is a special introductory rate which starts at the end of the beta testing. Plus the digital mini’s are not necessary, you get free tokens representing the creatures so there is no need to worry about buying a set. And I like to point out how the Magic the Gathering online works, you buy a virtual deck and boosters in order to play the game. So there is a good example of people already paying twice for something they already own. But in Magic Online when a player decides to end their virtual account the company sends them every single card they own in the virtual deck; at least that was the policy a few years ago. Will DDI offer the same thing for people who buy mini’s? I have no idea maybe someone could pose the question to wotc. Will DDI allow people who already own a box set of minis enter a code in order to receive the virtual mini’s from the box set for free with the DDI account? I have no idea but it is a good question to ask too. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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