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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
759 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 08:47:24
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I got to the start of Chapter 25 before I finally gave up on this. I put a bookmark in, for future reference as I may still finish it, and picked up another book. I'm not going to be harsh about it, but these are the reasons I didn't like this book:- Too many 'main' characters, most of whom were either uninteresting or Mary Sue-ish, or both (King Korox a prime example of both).
- Too many scene changes, causing the book to drag on and on. If I'm not mistaken, everything that had (or had not) happened until where I stopped reading was the result of less than a tenday passing. Perhaps this was a result of having to keep up with too many characters.
- The villains were (too) powerful, but not at all scary or unpredictable or insane or anything else that would make one fear for the lives of the heroes. It did not help that I actually cared more for Arch Magus Xeries' (or X-something) plot succeeding than for the princess ever being found.
Perhaps I simply just cannot gel with Jess' writing style, as I didn't enjoy Master of Chains all that much either, while Seige of Zerith Hold did at least hold my attention. Would I recommend this book to anyone? Sadly, that would be "no". |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 21:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
Too many 'main' characters, most of whom were either uninteresting or Mary Sue-ish, or both (King Korox a prime example of both.
Could you elaborate on why you thought that? I'm just curious. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
759 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 09:19:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
Too many 'main' characters, most of whom were either uninteresting or Mary Sue-ish, or both (King Korox a prime example of both.
Could you elaborate on why you thought that? I'm just curious.
Addendum (from PM): I'd like to know what characters you thought were Mary-Sueish and why--and why you thought King Korax (sic) was especially Mary-Sueish.
If we look at some of the classic 'symptoms' a Mary Sue/Marty Stu suffers from:
Are one or more other characters attracted to her/him? (Claw and princess, albeit to each other)
Is the character related to royalty or nobility? (King and princess)
Is the character rich or well-to-do, although she/he doesn't work? (Princess)
Is the character heir to a large fortune? The sole heir? (Princess)
Was the character ever abducted? (Princess)
Is the character unusually accomplished for her/his age/species/etc.? (Claw, king and princess)
Is the character consistently irreverent or radical, without repercussions? (Claw, king and princess)
Does the character use a katana or any other Asian or unusual weapon? Despite being of non-Asian heritage? (Claw)
Is the character astonishingly good at something that is not her/his profession? (King and princess)
Is the character a secret agent? (Claw and princess)
Is or was the character ever... an assassin? (Claw) A hero? (King)
Has everyone significant heard of the character? (Claw, king and princess)
Do all of the important characters end up liking/respecting/fearing her/him? (Claw and king)
Did they all like/respect/fear her/him from the beginning? (Claw and king)
Is the character repeatedly rivalled by the same person? (Claw and king)
Does the character suffer punishment for a crime she/he did not commit? (Claw)
Just this small sampling of questions makes both the Claw and King Korox borderline Marty Stus, or as I initially described it "Mary Sue-ish". Princess Mariko, bless her half-elven heart, is missing for most of the chapters I read, so falls short by a few points.
The main difference between the king and the Claw, is that Korox is never once shown to have any weakness. A prime example being after the two assassins are virtually ripped apart by the dark creature in the king's chamber, Korox then wakes up and kills the creature with little to no effort. From the conversation between the creature and Xeries a scene-change earlier, this one was even more dangerous than the ones that had decimated a whole legion of the king's army in the beginning of the book. To add insult to incredulity, when the king is later swamped by these 'lesser' creatures in the throne room, he still prevails.
At least with the Claw, he loses a fight here and there, most significantly against the new and improved brother (forgive me if I forget the name, as I stated, too many characters) he had killed in the beginning.
I think the main problem is that we never delve significantly into the motivations—apart from the mere superficial ones—of the 'heroes'. In contrast, Xeries is shown for what he has become and why he has become that. As I already mentioned, I had more sympathy for him as a character than for the 'heroes' by simple virtue of him having a background described to the reader. I almost think the book would have worked better if it had been written from his point of view, but I suppose that doesn't sell.
Make no mistake, I think Jess has the talent, as I enjoyed Assassin's Shadow, Topaz Dragon and most recently Seige of Zerith Hold. I just think he missed the mark with Obsidian Ridge. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 17:38:28
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| Well, thanks for elaborating on your thoughts, I appreciate it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 02:40:49
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I have to agree: I didn't like this book, though I suppose that's a step up from the loathing I felt for Master of Chains.
To me, it all came down to the fact that I didn't care about any of the characters. It wasn't just that they never seemed to have any problem doing whatever it was they wanted to do (Korox in battle is especially egregious), though that certainly helped. None of the characters were interesting or evoked any sort of emotional response from me. This was combined with a rather simplistic writing style that grated on me (for example entire paragraphs of nothing but simple sentences).
What this felt like, more than anything, was a mediocre third or fourth book of an on-going series. It was as though we were already supposed to know and care for these characters and the world that they inhabited. As though books 1 and 2 had told the story of Korox's father and the fight to secede, book 3 was Korox taking the throne and his daughter and the mysterious Claw moving up to supporting characters from the bit players they'd been in earlier in the series, and now here we are in Book 4, ready to follow them on the next adventure. It wouldn't have been a good Book 4, for reasons to come shortly, but at least it would have better than it is as written. Then at least we'd hopefully have some explanations for all the references that are dropped all over the place.
For instance, what is the Cellar? It features rather prominently, but there's not a single shred of explanation. All of the basic questions (who/what/where/when/why/how) are unanswered, robbing it of any sort of mystique or danger. It's simple Miscellaneous Dungeon Number 55, or worse, Cheap Undermountain Rip-Off Number 827. Contrast that with how the Haunted Halls were presented in Swords of Evenstar. When the Knights went in, we as readers knew where they were going.
Plotting was a problem. Plots and motivations ranged from the simplistic ("Give Princess! Want to Live!!!") to the mutually-contradictory in the Matron. Does she want to marry the king and manipulate him? Ransom the daughter back for immunity? Parlay the help of her mages (who never show up) for immunity and keep the daughter for something else? It seems she's trying to do all of the above at the same time, which is just nuts. One plan or the other was bound to cause the other to fall apart. Why does she think the Claw is such a problem? If you're going to make a Batman clone, you need to do a better job setting up his mystique and the terror his mere presense fills the underworld with. Make him a credible threat to her powerbase.
And everyone was suffering from a severe case of stupid, from Xeries's being powerful enough to pull a Moses on the kingdom, but can't summon a little magic to find/kill Quinn, to the King, who suspects the Church of Waukeen is involved with the criminals but never thinks to maybe ask the priestess of Waukeen standing beside him, to the Matron and her problems figuring out what she wants to do. And why on earth was the Matron so surprised/angry when the king pulled his Trojan Horse? She knows the princess is a trained wizard and skulker (the spy at the beginning made that clear), this is a blindingly-obvious two and two to put together. Which is nothing compared to the stupidity at the end of the book. She's got twenty assassins who survived the battle (it's stated explicitly), while Korox has the whole bloody army, not to mention all the wizards who showed up at random and were unengaged. If I was an assassin in that circle, I would have killed her myself rather than commit what would have been suicide if Korox had been less merciful.
Also, the book didn't have a very strong FR feel. Part of that was because it was set in an area that hasn't been well developed in fiction or game products, but that just made it his responsibility to introduce it to all of us. Make us care about the characters and the landscape, so when it gets nuked it affects us, and we root for our heroes to save the day. But that doesn't happen, and then, in best Saturday morning cartoon tradition, a Giant Reset button gets pressed in the last two pages. It's almost like the old TSR CoC came back from the dead and clobbered the book, making sure no taint of evil could survive to the closing sentence.
Speaking of the closing sentence, what's with the plot hook? We all know this story's never getting continued. Leaving aside whether it deserves to be continued, with the 4e jump all of these people have died of old age. Why not tie everything into a neat bow, you've satisfied every other cliche?
One other thing that was bugging me about the book... Oh yeah. Flying mountains. I'll let them get away with Shade, since Netheril had a long tradition of floating everything tied down, but Xeries isn't Netherese, and he floated his mountain near the start of his long lifespan. Mystra changed the Netherese spells to do that sort of thing, and I rather think she would have frowned on this piddling mage doing the same thing. And the floating mechanism was stupidly conceived, but not nearly as stupid as Xeries's idea of using that room to trap Quinn. He would have followed those assassins anywhere, but no, Xeries had to show him the one way to stop the castle. Because we haven't checked that cliche off the Evil Mastermind Mistake Cliche List yes.
And even letting that slide, they dropped a mountain into the lake. I'll say that again. They dropped a mountain into the lake. Llorbauth is going to be innundated by the tidal wave and maybe Shalane as well, but that's nothing compared to what that impact will do to the ground. Someone with a better feeling for kinematics could probably give a better idea of the kinetic energy that would be released by the impact of a thousand foot mountain peak from an altitude of at least a hundred feet, but it's not hard to believe there'd be a collapse of much of the terrain into the Underdark below. What wasn't drowned in Llorbauth by the waves would be shattered by the earthquakes. Massive collapses within the Underdark, triggering migrations of anyone left standing and likely revenge attacks on any surviving humans for being so stupid as to drop a mountain on their heads.
Gah. I guess I didn't just dislike the book. I guess I hated it. Which is a pity, since I really liked the first chapter. I was getting ready for a fun tale of magical cloak and dagger, of agents and counter agents fighting in the shadows over the future of the kingdom. For that, I could have forgiven the drug trafficing references, even though that's another thing that didn't feel at all like the Realms. Instead we got something poorly tought out and poorly executed. I'm glad I bought it with a gift card, rather than spending my own money for it. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Obsidian Ridge: Chapters 21 - 30
